Many of the people here have experienced all three of these systems, myself included except the Bose... ......price wise they vary from low to high also which is neither here or there.
Sound wise is a personal preference mixed bag regardless of the price ..........
I personally find the Bose compact a very interesting package for a small system for ease of use...I'm not yet convinced on the sound until I put it thru MY torture test very soon using my S900 & vocals. If it passes I might pick one up for the heck of it to use at my small gigs for sure we'll see. What do YOU think between the three mentioned, would love to hear from people that actually have & use any of these units.

Donny,

If you're using the S900, your best sound will be with two Compacts...stereo is the way to go with Yamaha arrangers.

Otherwise, you may find the sound a bit on the thin side and perhaps a bit bland, depending on what stereo effects you are using,although you will still get great coverage.

Ian

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I know that & 90% of the time use two powered speaker 15"s but would like to experiment with a mono Bose compact anyway.

Certainly can't hurt to try it, Donny...I'm just going on my experience with the Bose L1.

It may work for you.

Ian

Ian there is no way around the great STEREO sound with two separate units with the Yamaha Arranger units....we already know that....it's just a matter of convenience with the Bose minus the stereo sound...
in some very small situations you can certainly get away with a non stereo sound while playing even though you as a musician inside know its wrong & have to take one for the gypper.

The Tyros sounds good enough to overcome any issues in mono. Go for it. Only you will really know the difference. Your clients won't know or even care. They will hear the music, the song, the voice. Stereo will mean nothing to them. Most people are just not that sophisticated musically or technically. They will listen to the song.

KingFog is right Donny...some people won't notice the difference....but, you will....you know what it's supposed to sound like.

I know I want to sound good to me as well as my audience...it makes me play better, and I enjoy the gig a lot more.

That's why I use stereo, both with the Bose and my two Yamaha MS60S speakers.

Plus, if they've heard you in stereo before, some of them might be astute enough to notice something is missing.

Personally, I wouldn't say that setting up/taking down a single Bose would be any quicker than what you're using now.

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 05-12-2009).]

Listening to these idiot salesmen in stores is not MY thing & never was....I'll know if its right for MY needs soon enough if at all.

Some people think of their speakers as just appliances...sort of just a work tool.

I tend to think of a speaker system as almost another musical instrument, because as I said one time before, we are ultimately "playing the speaker" as it is where the sound meets the air.

I won't skimp on speakers, even for convenience sake...the two Bose take longer to set up and tear down...I allow for that in my schedule, so it doesn't matter to me...they aren't heavy either...another great plus.

And they sound incredible.

The PSR-S900 sounds so good through the two Bose, even I am jealous of me.


Ian

Few people LISTEN to the music ,,,many mearly "hear" it like you said.Those people would never know the difference.

I don't agree with that statement.

Not everyone would hear as a musician, but the "common ear" is much more educated than you seem to think.

Ian

Looking at the state of commercially successful music today I would say that is a stretch....LOL


[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 05-12-2009).]

Why would you say that?

Most people I know have great listening ability...you're in with the wrong crowd.

Ian

Just finished another gig with my Bose Compact system. I am now on the way out the door to go get a second Bose Compact and will use the two systems on Thursday and Friday. I will report back with the results. What the heck, it's only money-and you cant' take it with you.

By the way, my Bose Clasic L1 goes on Craigs list tonight.

Hammer

[This message has been edited by hammer (edited 05-12-2009).]

Hammer, I set mine up in the living room today. HankB and Dean both came by and they approved.
I will take it to the club tonight to see how it works there. It sounds good at home. While it has plenty of bottom, it doesn't have that sub-bass feel of the bigger one, at least at home.
I will A-B the two systems tonight. If it's slow, I may even try them in stereo.
DonM

Dean & Don thanks for the reviews so far on the Bose....looking forward to hearing more in the near future for sure.
In 7 months I'll give it a good test at the Shreveport jam

The compact handled the room very well. It is probably better suited for a room that size than the big model. None of the regulars or staff noticed any difference in the sound, except one of them commented that it seemed crisper than normal.
DonM

Don how was the bass & vocal response when you pushed it?

Guys-

For what its worth, I've done over 160 performances with the L1 since I got it shortly before Christmas.

I've used it for all jobs...100%, including solos, duos, and quartet gigs...Everything from Nursing homes to large banquet halls to corporate lunch rooms to a church.

I've gotten countless comments on the new system, all...everyone of them...positive.

Do I personally miss the stereo from my T2? Yeah, but its not changed anything for me. Unless you were seated in just a certain location, you (the audience) didn't hear it the way I did to start with.

Everything is crisper, clearer and of a higher quality than before.

Donny-I'm not "getting away" with using Mono. If the comments were mixed, I'd really be questioning it, but they're not...not at all. My experiences seem to be consistent with what other L1 users are saying as well...

Ian-I'm surprised at your comment that you don't see a difference in set up/tear down times between the L1 and a conventional PA. I'm curious how this can be. With regard to transporting my equipment, I now make just one trip in and one trip out from the car. That alone is a time saver. Setup wise, from setting up poles, after finding room for them at the venue, hoisting the 45+lbs speakers up on them, to running the two cables to the mixer, etc...its absolutely a time saver for me.

I've gotten rid of:

2 15" mains
2 speaker poles
1 powered mixer
1 stand for the mixer

Replaced it with:

1 L1
1 tone engine that fits in my equipment bag
1 utility shelf that stays attached to my kb stand

Plus, my consistent back/shoulder pain has virtually disappeared.

I can only speak for myself, but the new system sounds better, weighs less and takes less time to transport/set up/tear down.

Its not for everyone, but I'm 1000% sold on the L1...

Cheers,


------------------
Bill in Dayton

[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 05-13-2009).]

Bill glad your enjoying the L1 system......
I had one, performed for months with it, ....but in the end it didn't convince me to keep it..... as it definitly hindered the SOUND vs "STEREO" I want........
I got rid of it and since then I am happily back using two powered 15" "Stereo" system that suits MY needs on stage which sounds fantastic. I just love being enveloped in the middle of that L/R "STEREO ZONE" on stage performing. Although some people enjoy it, the L1 isn't for everyone's needs.



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 05-13-2009).]

Bill,

I think you might have misunderstood my post.

The setup time is about the same because I am using two complete L1 systems...I was using two powered monitors.

The two powered monitors, which only weigh 25 lbs each, were a tad faster to set up, but not by much, as I still had to assemble the stands I use to bring them up to ear level.

I don't use a mixer with either system....just line outs from the keyboard....I use the keyboard's internal mixer.

The Bose works "okay" or adequately, using a single system, but I do find a dramatic difference when using two in stereo.

The stereo effect sweet spot is also hugely increased, and, to my ears, seems to be present nearly every where in the room.

I'm not one to waste money, and if the two Bose systems did not provide such a substantial improvement over one, I wouldn't have invested the money.

I did extensive testing, both with one and two Bose systems, before I made my decision, and it is a choice I do not regret for one second.

I now have a terrific system that is stereo, and provides ideal coverage.

Mind you, I still use my Yamaha powered monitors for some restaurant work, where a drop off of sound is more beneficial than complete coverage in every nook and cranny.

The Bose L1 in mono was unacceptable to me as I really missed having stereo sound, especially for effects like rotary speaker, delays, and choruses.

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 05-14-2009).]

I cannot imagine anyone coiming up to someone with a Bose system and making a comment regarding a stereo field..LOL

People go through the trouble and expense of two systems for their OWN benefit. The audiences will never demand or even comment on the lack of a stereo field.

Some people need all the confidence they can muster. It reminds me of acts who clam up when there are no EFX. A confident singer with a decent voice needs nothing but a mike and a good sound system. Just as well as a great evening's performance is still great in mono.



[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 05-13-2009).]

Well, as I said, it sounded a lot like the bigger system. As for pushing it, I did crank it up quite a bit after all the customers had left, just to test it, and it sounded even better at a higher volume.
There is definitely a limit as to how loud it will go, but at full volume it would be WAY too loud for that room.
It was designed for a guitar/vocal act with facility to play MP3s and/or backing tracks.
It will work nicely for arranger keyboards in fairly small venues. It distributes the sound very well and sounds crisp and clean.
The bass is full and solid, although not QUITE as robust as the original. The bass response on the Compact is down to 65 hz and the original goes down to 40, if I remember correctly. It's more of a "feel" than a hearing thing.
I have not even tried the mic channel yet, which has a built-in mic preset, plus volume and e.q. controls. That channel is designed for mic input only, not line input.
The other channel has your choice of a 1/4-inch input, two RCA inputs or a 1/8 stereo input. All can be used at the same time, but levels must be controlled from the input device, as there is only one level control for all inputs on channel 2.
I ran my E50 and Harmony M into a mixer and ran the l and r mixer outputs into the RCA inputs on the Compact. It worked well. I tried also using just the mono output of the keyboard and running it into the Compact. It sounded good, but you lose some volume, and to my ears running both outputs sounded better.
Hope this helps.
DonM

Put an order in now for those who want one. They are already back ordered. I'm not surprised.

Don thanks for the honest info on the Bose compact ....

I will certainly try one asap with Fran by my side........
They are cheap enough, so who knows I might pick one up if it passes my test in the store & use it for very small gigs, cocktail hrs, small NH's, etc........although I really dont need it...

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 05-13-2009).]

Of course we do it for our own benefit, Kingfog, but the audience benefits immensely from the sound of stereo, especially when delivered by two Bose L1 systems.

The sound of the single Bose system was so relentlessly nondescript that boredom was the primary concern whilst playing.

A single Bose system possesses a particular strain of sound system flu, electronicus mediocritas....this is only cured by the addition of another identical unit and the emergence of glorious stereo sound.

Confidence is knowing that you sound incredibly good to your audience....arrogance, is when you believe they can't tell the difference.

Ian

I know you're using two Bose systems, but my post was directed specifically at the above comment...

------------------
Bill in Dayton

I can't begin to relate to that. Boredom? All due respect, I've never heard your work but if you really meant what you said, then its quite possible its as much of a performer issue than anything else.

I will grant you that 2 L1's run in stereo produce an awesome sound with an above average stereo field, but IMO, most would say that's beyond the point of diminishing returns.

Now, if Bose wants to provide me with a 2nd system and a full time roadie to transport/set up/tear down all this stuff, I wouldn't object, lol...



------------------
Bill in Dayton

Bill,

Since I'm not using a mixer, then putting up a single Bose system, and putting up two powered monitors takes about the same time for me, anyway...your mileage may vary.

Ian

Agreed...who among us moves as fast or effortlessly as we did ten years ago, eh?

I will say the L1 was very disappointing to me by itself. The base unit, while the inputs are great, didn't provide me with the sound I desired. Adding a powered mixer did a very nice job and gave me the sound I was looking for. Then, switching to the tone engine, it was heaven...

------------------
Bill in Dayton

Yes, Bill, I meant what I said ...the sound of one Bose is boring...one dimensional...perhaps it is a fine sound for performers who aren't concerned about sounding at their best...perhaps not.

All I know is my S900 and Tyros3 sound much better with two systems.

Just because the Bose sounds boring to me, doesn't mean I deserve a veiled insult(I would have thought you were better than that) but apart from that, I really can't comment on the level of excitement my own playing generates, but it certainly has been paying the bills rather well these past 43 years, so I must be doing something right.

Ian

That's why I use them, Bill...it matters to me that I sound at my very best when I perform...the cost over time is negligible since they will pay for themselves...I can't see anyone using them at home, or for one gig a month, perhaps, but I do feel two systems are well worth the huge increase in sound quality if you are fussy about the sound, like I am.

They aren't heavy...it just takes more time to set up, and maybe another trip to the car...no big deal.

Ian

Hogwash....YOU need it. So you have it. The audience would enjoy your show just the same with or without the second pole. If they did not I would be suspect of your entertainment prowess.

B I N G O ! That's what I have been saying.

Kingfog,

It's quite obvious you know very little about live playing, even less about the difference between stereo and mono, and even less again about how well I perform.

Your insults tell me much more about your own insecurities than the level of my talent.

Did you all of a sudden get this insecure, or did it start way back when you were a little tadpole?

Ian

Ian, you bug me sometimes too...but I think you nailed it...Kingfrog comes across just as you described..

And stereo does make a positive difference..Whenever possible..I want stereo..

BTW: I can't recall the link, but I read an interesting article about the stereo projection a few months ago...and the design of the Bose is all wrong according to these sound experts...The problem is the sound is projected in a wide disbursement,,,like throwing a stone in a pond ..the ripples will flow out from the center...now throw two stones a distance apart..Two ripple groups until they make contact with each other's ripples...This is a problem with the sound projection...Bose knows this..and you won't see them suggesting stereo with two Bose L1's

Great analogy Fran and a graphic interpretation of why I just can't believe audiences benefit from wide dispersement speakers of any kind. The stone thrower (performer) will know the difference...and if its worth it to the stone thrower, then I say go for it.

Eddie

I see your point Fran, and it does make sense as you describe, but for some reason I don't get those results.

Believe me, if they didn't work properly in stereo, I wouldn't have them.

If you read any of my old posts about the Bose as a single system, you would see how critical I was of it's one dimensional mono sound, so being convinced about two of them was a stretch....but they do sound terrific.

Maybe it is the way Yamaha's stereo imaging is set up...I don't know, but we did try a Roland G-1000 with it and it sounded great.

I do know that several bands in my area use multiple Bose systems...one for each performer, with up to five on the stage, and they have no issues with the sound either.

I don't completely understand the science behind it, but I don't need to as long as it works for me.

I've played a midi file, and walked around the room, and I can hear the difference between when I use one, and then two, and it is a marked difference.

I'm glad I spent the loot on it...it works perfect for my style of play, so I'm happy, and my audience is as well.

Ian

BTW...here's something interesting about Bose in stereo..

http://blog.mp3backingtrax.com/articles/bose-l1-in-300-400-seat-venues/


[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 05-13-2009).]

Sorry...double post.

[This message has been edited by btweengigs (edited 05-13-2009).]

does all this presumably great sound improve the throwers playing?

Now Donny, you know darn well the better your arranger sounds, the more you enjoy playing, and the more you enjoy playing, that feeling gets transmitted to the audience.

We sell a feeling when we play.

Ian

The best sound system or instrument will NOT magically make the player better although many think so buy reading some of these posts of course you'll never hear anyone......but you talent can never be covered up & eventually be exposed to the audience one way or another. Become a really good player or /singer first then worry about the sound system. Now if you'll excuse me I'm off to dinner with friends.

ciao

This shows how to set up two L1 in stereo...see last two diagrams at bottom of page.

http://toonz.ca/bose/wiki/index.php?title=Connections_/_DJ_VJ_Computer_to_Model_I

All wrong according to what? We need a point of reference.

Bose wanted to build a line array and they succeeded. Line array speakers use multiple drivers to increase acoustic efficiency and power handling ability. The physical span of the array produces a more life-like sound by adding height to a listening experience often missing with more conventional loudspeakers.

Here's a link to click on if you have the time:

http://www.higherfi.com/spkrlist/speakerlist.htm

A nice collection of some of the most expensive speakers available. Look down the list and count how many line array configs you see.

I know the original topic was PA speakers and I'm not trying to deviate. My point is...the line array speaker system is a bonafide solution used extensively by speaker manufacturers.

I don't get what those experts mean when they say, "It's all wrong."


-mike the confused

Here's another thought to consider....

Let's take an orchestra. We could have up to 100 different sound producing, wave generating, molecule moving, man-made music devices all throwing their "rocks" into the "water".

How come what we hear is a thing a beauty?


-mike

Good posts, Mike the Confused

I understand that if two identical mono signal are fed one each into two Bose L1, and the speakers are very close together, there may be some phase cancellation.

Using the left and right stereo outs of a keyboard, or a mixer does not cause any phase cancellation, and gives excellent results.

It sounds terrific at every point in the room.

Ian

I don’t see the Bose being worth 2500+ extra base, etc. last time I spent $2500 for one speaker, they were EAW's and they are in a different world than bose. I did demo them already at some local music stores but I really don’t find them practical for my uses. Also the types of gigs I do are large halls with 200-400 people and I can't imagine how many bose I would need to fill the room.

I see EAW uses the line array principle like Bose.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 05-13-2009).]

Its actually the other way around, EAW has been using line array systems for many years now.

Yep...they both make awesome speakers.

I have performed in venues with sound systems you probably dreamed of. The monitor systems could power a thousand seat theater!

NONE in stereo. 5000 Plus loud people in an amphitheater. not one whining about no stereo. Insult has nothing to do with it.

You say you cannot perform in mono as well as in stereo. You believe your audience will suffer a lesser experience....... It's not an insult to say you have a confidence issue. Seems to be factual by your own words. And yes Fran is upset I did not jump on the "Podium" bandwagon. So be it. There are certain people one does not need stroking from.



[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 05-13-2009).]

ian -No insult intended whatsoever...not at all. Take it for what its worth from a peer who has also made a very nice living doing nothing but music. How can the bose sound so clear/clean/powerful for me using a yamaha board like you and generate consistent praise & compliments? Are the people I'm performing for in the Dayton/Cincy/Cbus markets different from your audiences? Probably not...

Your comment that maybe one L1 is fine for performers who aren't concerned about sounding their best is just childish. I meant you no insult...(...and I KNOW you're better than that!)

If you're around...hell, if anyone is around Dayton-give me a holler and come with for a day and listen. If you put the time into learning how to operate the equipment properly, if you take some time for trial and error with different settings, eq's, etc. one L1 sounds incredible...that's not just me saying it, its dozens of people in my audiences since mid December. These people have no product loyalty and could give a flying you-know-what about what PA I drag in on my cart for their gig...

You're happiest working with two L1's and that's great...seriously...But you shouldn't dismiss the vast majority of L1 owners who per Bose instructions, use only one system. And are delighted with the results...

Again, no insults intended, my apologies since you took it that way...I'm more of a direct guy, it won't be a cheap shot.

Cheers,


------------------
Bill in Dayton

One, properly set up, would do fine...

Unless its an actual Bose Corporate store, take the experience of your demoing them with a grain of salt. The sales staff at Guitar Center and other national chains don't typically have a very good working knowledge of these units.



------------------
Bill in Dayton

I agree with Donny 100000% about working on your skills and then enhancing your performance with a nice PA. First things first, absolutely...

I do think that if I made Donny use a Radio Shack set of PA speakers for a gig instead of his preferred equipment, it would make a difference. It has to do with mind set, I think. It wouldn't reduce his vocal range or make him forget how to play chords, but if it sounds brutal...some of the life gets sucked out of it. Kind of like your swimming upstream.

When I've been forced to use other people's PA's and I don't like them, its frustrating to me because the audience isn't hearing me the way I want them to.

------------------
Bill in Dayton

After everyone left tonight, I send the left signal to the Compact and the right signal to the original L1. Of course I had to adjust the volumes to match. Sound WAS phenomenal.
It won't make me another nickel, but it's like sitting in a recording studio.
I may get another Compact and reserve the big L1 for situations where I need all that power.
And yes, one L1 will more than adequately handle 300 people.
I played twice at an outdoor car-racing track, up in the grandstand, and the sound covered the entire stadium easily. There were about 400-500 people there. (However there were no cars running-just an award ceremony.)
DonM

Yeah, it was an insult, but considering that when you point your finger at me, you have three pointing back at yourself, so I'd say it is you that has the confidence problem.

Look pal, we are all very glad you had your time performing your little Karaoke thing, and it's too bad that it's all over and all you have is the memories and some pictures, but your time would be much better served if you did some actual constructive posting, instead just telling us how little you know about playing an arranger "live".

Insulting people seems to be your way of getting attention...if that's what you crave, then buy yourself a dog, or get another one, if the one you have is not giving you enough.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 05-13-2009).]

Bill, before you go any further about the Bose, have you even tried using two in stereo?

Try them, and then tell me there isn't a marked improvement in the sound...several people here, and on other forums, have tried two of them and found a big jump in sound quality.

I'm sure that you'll agree that we all want to make our sound better...it's a growing process, or otherwise you'd still be using your former PA system.

I disliked the one dimensional sound of one Bose....I tried two, not from anyone's suggestion, but as an experiment, and I found that it was a very big improvement over using one.

If you are happy with the mono sound, that's okay, it's adequate for some I guess, but don't you think you'd want to sound more than that...adequate should be your staring point, not your destination.

I (and my audience) will continue to enjoy the sound of my arranger the way it was designed to be heard...in stereo.

Ian

This is getting circular for some reason...several posts ago I acknowledged that I was sure that two L1's would make a terrific sound...I also said that was great for you...

On the other hand...

"If you are happy with the mono sound, that's okay, it's adequate for some I guess, but don't you think you'd want to sound more than that...adequate should be your staring point, not your destination."

Again, a put down of sorts...kind of a snide one at that.

You feel that a single Bose L1 is barely adequate, and those that use just one must be "settling" or something. I just don't agree...and neither do most of the Bose users out there. I think its arrogant that you would suggest that you've found this super unique way of using the Bose and that everybody else is just deaf, or has low standards. To say you've found a custom setup that works best for you is cool, but to take a swipe at the vast majority of the Bose users is categorically ridiculous...

While I acknowledge that one L1 sounds great, and two very likely sounds better...you seem unwilling to make a reciprocal concession.

I think we've exhausted the usefullness of this thread, lol...

Enjoy your Bose, as I'll enjoy mine...



------------------
Bill in Dayton

Please don't misquote me, Bill, I did not say "barely adequate"...I said "adequate".

Look up the definition of the word...it is not an insult.

It means..."Enough to meet a purpose" or "About average; acceptable."

I did say that one system sounded "one dimensional", and I am staying with that opinion...mono is one dimensional...I have stated this many times on other threads about the single Bose, and so have many others.

On the other hand....

If you acknowledged that two Bose "very likely sound better", and you are happy with one L1 system, is it not to follow that you are not interested in sounding better?

No arrogance on my part...I'm just more interested than you are about sounding better.

Ian

Ian, do you think that your perception of the Bose sound - Mono vs Stereo - has anything to do with the fact that (I believe) you play mainly instrumentals (no vocals) and by yourself (solo, with no other musical partners or live instruments) and thus have focussed on Effects and Sounds that rely quite heavily on Stereo panning?

If that's the case, and correct me if I'm wrong here (I frequently am) than perhaps that's why you feel, for you, that a single Bose is only adequate for your needs, and is the reason you set up and prefer your show in Stereo?

This is a serious question/observation, and I'm not judging you in any way.

The first time I heard a Bose L1 was about three years ago, when I did a PSR-3000 clinic with a local client, who I'll call Donald.

He sings, plays guitar, and makes his own SMF which he uses for background accompaniment.

We were in a small hall, where he plays quite often, and I was immediately impressed with the Bose L1's sound coverage, but less than enamoured with the thin sound of the 3K's accompaniment.

I was using a 3K at that time and was used to hearing it in stereo, through two powered monitors, which I still have, and I was struck by the difference, both when I walked around the room, and when I sat and played chords...the L1 was off to my right, and a bit behind me.

I did notice the piano was thinner when I played it on it's own, and it sounded thinner in the accompaniment when it was part of a style....some of the guitars were the same way...overall it was acceptable, but it was far from good enough to my ears to make me go out and buy one, even though I wanted a system that could fill a room the way the Bose did..

Mind you, Donald was very pleased with the Bose, and liked it more than the PA he had the year before, which was also a mono system...two cabinets, and a powered mixer...he mainly liked how well the Bose filled the room, but he did not comment that the 3K sounded better.

Seeing he was quite happy with the Bose, I said nothing.

Last week he and his wife were at one of my gigs,( I was playing all instrumental music) and heard the S900 through two L1's in stereo...needless to say, both of them were more than impressed with the sound, and, after my gig, we plugged in a Flashdrive which he still had in his jacket pocket from the night before, and I played several of his SMF whilst he walked around the room.

The bottom line is that he bought another L1...so I guess it takes hearing one (or two in this case) to actually change someones view.

I use the same keyboard pan/effects settings with the two Bose that I use with the two powered speakers I had been using (and still use occasionally)...I don't "hard pan" anything, but the sounds are panned, especially if there are two guitars in the accompaniment...one is panned at 10 o'clock and the other at 2...I also sometimes pan the phrase tracks if I'm using similar sounds in both, and they are set to the same 10 and 2 positions.

To me, and to Donald as well, the sound of the two Bose is far more open, the stereo separation is present nearly everywhere...in other words, the stereo "sweet spot" is substantially increased.

He said that even his vocals sounded better, especially when he panned the vocal harmonizer tracks.

I have had quite a few people from the audience comment on how great the two Bose sound., and no complaints about it sounding too loud, something I had to be concerned about using conventional speakers.

Just as it is hard (more like impossible) to describe to someone who has not heard the Bose, just how well it fills a room, it is equally as difficult to convey to someone how good two sound in stereo.

My suggestion is thus...if you're happy with the way your single Bose sounds, don't ever listen to it in stereo.

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 05-14-2009).]

I think everyone who's read this thread would interpret your comments similar to the way I have. Its not a stretch and to hide behind the argument "well, that's not what I said exactly" (NOTE: The previous phrase captured in quotations in this instance does not represent a traditional quote, but rather an opinion from this author and very likely many other readers of this thread...) is weak. Big time, weak...At least have the courage of your convictions...

I'm fine with working with reasonable inferences, and when I said the double system "very likely sounds better" (NOTE: The previous phrase captured in quotations in this instance DOES represent a traditional quote...) I meant that in the wider stereo field it produces. (See previous post...) I've also added that for most, the benefit from that exceeds what most Bose users would call the point of diminishing returns.

Ian-For the 2nd or 3rd or 4th time, I officially acknowledge the improved and larger stereo field with a double set up is just dandy.

I doubt seriously that the people in those stereo enhanced seats in your performances are saying to themselves...

"HOLY CRAP!!! Do you hear what I hear? Its stereo...honest to god stereo...wow, whoo-hoo!!!! and we didn't pay extra for these seats? Ya' gotta be kidding me...NO WAY, DUDE!!! Stereo? What could be better than that? Where's my Quadrophenia album? Where did this guy come from? Why isn't he a household name..."

DISCLAIMER: THE ABOVE HUMOROUS RIFF WAS MERELY MEANT TO PROVIDE LEVITY AND ENTERTAINMENT VALUE TO THE OTHER READERS OF THIS THREAD, WHO BY NOW ARE APPROACHING MIND-NUMBING LEVELS OF BOREDOM WITH BOTH OF US AND THIS TOPIC...IT IS IN NO WAY MEANT TO RIDICULE ANY PERSONS LIVING OR DEAD, OR DEAF...

Rock on, Ian...its all good....



------------------
Bill in Dayton

The best sound system or instrument will NOT magically make the player better, although many think so buy reading some of these posts of course you'll never hear anyone here ......but your talent can never be covered up & eventually be exposed to the audience one way or another. Become a really good player or /singer first, then worry about the sound system.

On Letterman last night I noticed Paul Shaffer had what looked like the new small Bose behind him.

I really don't think they would...not according to the numerous PMs I have received since my last post.


If anyone else doubts my comments about the incredibly improved sound and stereo enhanced projection of two Bose L1's, they can just try it for themselves.

I'm not getting any kickback from Bose (and I'm sure they love selling two systems) and everyone with the single system is so satisfied and pleased they don't think it can be (or needs to be) improved (all except for the ones who already contacted me) so we'll just let the thread go where it may.

Best wishes,

Ian

Well, Donny, what if you are already a good player/singer/karaoke guy and want to sound at your very best?

Becoming a better player is a daily exercise, and there will always be room for improvement in all of us, including you, my friend.

So, based on your wise statement, how will one know when to upgrade their sound system...is there a test?

Ian

Holy crap! How did I miss this pissing contest before this? Let's see if I comprehend.

One Bose L1 sounds fantastic to many and is their choice for a PA system.

Some people have tried two L1's or two Compacts and like the stereo effect it provides, feeling it is superior to one system.

One member has an L1 and a Compact, tried them in stereo, but will buy another Compact instead of adjusting the volumes of what he already owns (wish I had that luxury).

The argument is whether one or two systems is superior

It has been acknowledged that the stereo of two systems is somewhat better than mono - a personal choice issue.

It is now being argued, by inference ???, that mono Bose is unacceptable for OMB who have stereo keyboards.

So does that mean I will never own a Bose because I can't afford one, let alone two?

I can't piss that high on the wall anymore.

When the Bose L1 (formerly PAS) first came out, what looked like a Half Stack version was noticed behind Paul which he was, presumably, using as a monitor. That may have been what you saw, or he may have the new compact L1. However, weight is not an issue for Paul. His gear never moves.

Eddie

So Ian when is the 61 key version AUDYA coming out?

The future is cloudy for the 61 key Audya...buy a Tyros3 instead...so says the Swami.

Ya know I really couldn't tell, I kinda thought it might be a half stack of L1. But then I figured not only does he not move his stuff he probably doesn't pay for it either so Bose might have given him one.
But like I said I couldn't tell and thanks for telling me I didn't know about the half stack sighting earlier. I don't watch Letterman very often but I just happened to be flipping and saw Bose.

Now that's "TRUE" Wisdom & advice.......

Well we used a stereo double Bose house System on Mother's Day for two shows......nice

Used our own Single Bose system last night for another show....just as nice.

Some of the same people came to both shows and I asked them if they noticed any difference in the sound.

As I expected they said no, both shows were great sounding. Surprisingly I felt just as confident about my performance in both shows.

No one does not need two Bose Systems unless they find their performances won't stand on their own with just one.

(I guess that would make 4 Bose systems 4X as good.....Hmmmmmmm just how much better will we be with SIX Bose systems....)

I have decided several things from this thread...

Firstly, apparently, the rest of you are capable of bringing the tone of this forum down without ANY help on my part. Shame on you, Donny... surely these's a FEW more you can blame for your inability to lift this forum higher than it is?

Secondly, I am going to go home and sell one speaker out of each of my stereo speaker sets. Apparently, I don't need them. I have been considering going back to recording to wax cylinders, or maybe I'll go techno and use mono 78's. Apparently, the progress in audio over the last 70 years has all been in vain...

I will also start to consider my audiences neither deserving of my best, nor capable of recognizing it when it IS given. That should catapult me to the forefront of entertainment right there...

Next stop... a karaoke tour! Finally, I'll be able to hold my head up here and not consider myself unworthy in the eyes of all you 'experts'

CASSP, it's not a luxury, it's my BUSINESS.
Whatever I think I need or want to keep me performing well is what I will get. Another $1,000. investment in my business can be justified at this time, and it is tax deductible as well.
Two Compact systems will be quicker to set up and easier to carry than one of the originals. Also, I sold my spare Classic L1 system to pay for the new Compact.
I don't have to have inventory or employee expense as many businesses do, but I do want the best equipment I can find.
Same thing goes for the Audya. It probably won't make me any more money, but it will keep me fresh and interested and on top of the game. At my age, this gear I'm getting now could well be the last I buy.
Of course I said that 20 years ago too.
DonM

Just about everything being said on this forum right now might have that quote appended, Don...! Or at least as far back as I can get the 'search' engine to provide results

My granddad gave me some sound advice on his deathbed...

"It's worth spending money on good speakers," he told me.

"It's worth spending money on good speakers"
-Yung Fu Chang. CEO, Podium Enterprises

While I played the CrabTrap Wednesday night..at least 3 other performers (that also play the CrabTrap) stopped by...each of them were amazed..what they heard from just a pair of 802's...300 plus patrons..

I guess I can revamp that saying.."spend a little money on good speakers"..works too..

I agree with everything you say, Don. And I expected to hear from you regarding my comment. I'm just jealous that I can't do the equipment thing like I used to. So, I was just thinking out loud that if I had an L1 and a Compact, that would pretty much do it for me. But you keep doing what you're doing; it works for you.

To expect an audience member(s) to notice a difference in sound using one Bose or two is ridiculous. ... unless you are performing in true surround sound vs a PA (of ANY type) on stage, I doubt that ANYONE would hear the difference ...

And a poor performance is not going to be any better played in mono, stereo, surround sound, WHATEVER ..

t.

If I decide to run two of the Compacts, it will be for ME, not the audience!

DonM

I'm sorry that two Bose systems failed to increase your confidence level.

We all know, the better we sound (to ourselves), the more confident we are in our performance.

A one dimensional mono PA system does not make us sound as good as a stereo system....lets' face it, if mono were better, stereo would not be the chosen medium for everything from radio, TV, movies and of course, musical performances.

Better sounding...more confidence...making any sense to you, son?

So, the corollary is, if having the Bose in stereo, does not increase your confidence level, then might I suggest the following confidence boosters for you...

1.Spruce up your appearance. Take time for proper grooming and dressing.

2.Shower and shave everyday. Brush your teeth. Run a comb through your hair. While these things are simple, you’d be surprised by the number of men who fail to do them.

3.Set goals and meet them. Confident men make goals and keep them. Goals are promises we make to ourselves. How can you have confidence in yourself if you can’t keep a promise to yourself?

4.Exercise. Nothing can boost manly confidence like exercise. The increased blood flow makes you feel good and hormones are released that boost your confidence.

4.Learn a new skill. Confident men are constant learners. By learning a new skill, you demonstrate to yourself that you’re capable of adapting to anything that life throws at you. There are millions of skills that you can acquire in this life. Find one you have always wanted to know and get to work on it. Want to know a martial art? Call a dojo and sign up for a class. Want to learn how to fix a car? Go to the library today and check out books on auto repair. Just do something, damn it!

5.Take stock of past success. Sit down in your man chair and dim the lights. Think back to moments in life when you were successful. They don’t have to be huge successes. By remembering past successes, you’ll show yourself you’re not a complete screw up.

Try these out Froggy...they have worked for others, and by applying yourself to these suggestions, perhaps they may work for you, and wouldn't it be wonderful if your flagging confidence was renewed.

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 05-15-2009).]

I am glad to learn by virtue of a stereo performance you are able to avoid those pertinent time tested and some lofty steps to success. For the rest of us mortals, we can achieve the heights we set out for in mono, I did anyway.......Just like 90% of every successful touring band, Broadway show and 90% of all MAJOR venues in Las Vegas, Atlantic City, Branson MO, where people pay far more than a merely a beer or cup of coffee for entry only to suffer the show they chose to see in M O N O.......

I can understand why you need live stereo so much given that you seem to think you perform better awash in stereo sound. But that is not a universal feeling.

Stereo has it's place.....Close proximity speakers, headphones, planes, trains and automobiles and small venues. But when you spent 20 years performing in large mono venues you don't suddenly need Stereo to boost your confidence in front of a couple hundred people......at least I don't.



[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 05-15-2009).]

Exactly my point. I don't play stadiums, I do small to medium size venues, where stereo excels.

Line array speakers, like the Bose, aren't your typical cabinet on a stick system...the stereo sweet spot is exceptionally enhanced, and make it all worthwhile.

Stay with boring old mono, if it helps with your confidence (so, none of the above suggestions actually helped you?), but if you really want to improve your sound (and who doesn't?), in the venues that allow for stereo sound, you best be going with two Bose systems.

Otherwise, you're still living in the past....works for some I guess.

Ian

You miss the point...Boring mono does not HELP with confidence. Stereo does not help with confidence. Confidence has NOTHING to do with mono or stereo. If it did I would have been in deep shyte when I started playing larger venues. It's because I played in those situations I don;t have a preference today not despite playing in those venues.

I like stereo. I like listening in stereo. I love surround on the home theater, I just don;t think its worth the extra cash or even the extra 15 minutes of set up to play every small gig in stereo. It's a PERSONAL decision, not a universal rule. Confidence is something generated by my preparation for the show, not the sound system. I had better be at maximum confidence before I even sing the first note or I'm in trouble and another tower won't fix that....

This is where we differ...I take pride in sounding my best at every gig.

It seems you suffer more from complacency than lack of confidence.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 05-15-2009).]

Double post.

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 05-15-2009).]