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#260733 - 04/02/09 05:40 AM Re: Best Arranger LIVE !!
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10593
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Yamaha DX-7 30 lb
Korg Triton 30 lb.
Fantom G6 32 lb.

Don't think 5-6 lbs. makes that much of difference? Put a 5 lb. bag of flour on your keyboard while you play!

I'm sorry, but off the top of my head, I don't think I can think of ONE great star keyboard player that plays a PSR type action (other than the great players we have here ).

Heck, even Liszt use to have a spare PIANO on stage for the numerous times he broke piano strings playing his music. I suppose he should have just played lighter, too?


I think I would need to put a bag of flour on my keyboard if I was to let you play it...that way you wouldn't need to worry about it moving whilst you pound and smear away enthusiastically.


Why not two bags for aesthetic purposes?

Seriously, 5-6 lbs ain't gonna make any difference...don't be makin' excuses.

Thankfully, I'm not limited by any keyboard's size or weight...I just adjust, like many pros do...you're a pro...adjust.

There are no home arranger keyboards used on stage by "stars" as far as I know, PSR or otherwise and including the G70, although the same keyboard actions may be used in pro gear, such as the Tyros' FSX being used in the Motif...and I believe the G70's action is in an older Roland A-series controller as well(A-70?), but that's about as close as these instruments ever get to stardom.

If "pounding" so hard as to shift a 25-30 lb electronic keyboard on a stand can be considered a style, then I am glad it is not part of mine...I like saving wear and tear on joints and tendons and using the volume control...but some have to "suffer" for their art.

Personally I think pounding away on any modern well actioned electronic keyboard is more about theatrics than anything inherently musically useful....technology has moved on, son, and there is no need for it anymore...unless we be wanting the dubiously musical thunk from the key hitting the keybed rail as part of our sound?

The dynamics of my little S900 go from no sound at all when I press a key really slowly, to very loud when I strike harder/faster and every nuance in between is covered admirably...what more would I need than that?

Then again, action is a very personal and subjective issue, so what works for some, does not for others.

Lizt broke piano strings because they weren't as well made back then...or maintained either....metallurgy has advanced a lot since his time...if he had been playing a Yamaha piano, he would not have needed a spare instrument and/or strings.

Lizt had to play hard considering the actions on the early pianos/pianofortes, and pounding, or playing hard, was necessary in many cases, and, no doubt, encouraged so that his many fans could hear him...we have amplifiers/speakers nowadays to serve the latter.

Enjoy whatever you choose to play, and look after yourself, my friend...hopefully you won't be long catching up to the rest of us who have figured out that heavy gear is unnecessary in this day and age of vastly improved and responsive keyboard actions and lightweight materials, and, hopefully, you won't wind up with pain meds and/or back surgery as has happened to many who stubbornly refused to change.

Ian
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#260734 - 04/02/09 05:46 AM Re: Best Arranger LIVE !!
Fran Carango Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9043
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
[b]Me, I like enough weight in a keyboard so that when I smack it around, or do a big smear or gliss, it doesn't move at all. 25 lbs. and under, I have a lot of problem with key creep (it's like pedal creep, except harder to deal with ).


I don't have any trouble with "key creep"...of course, I play with a different technique than you...a little gentler, I suppose...but because I use a proper stand, there is no bounce or movement if I play vigorously.

You'd have to banging on a 25 lb keyboard extremely hard to make it bounce or creep....25 lbs is not that light...that's about the same as a pro synth like a Yamaha DX7 or Roland D50.

You know, you really don't have to pound on them...that's why they have volume controls.

At one time we needed to play hard, as pianos were acoustic and rarely mic'd, but times have changed, my friend.

Oh well, to each his own...I'm very happy with my lightweight setup and so is my back.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 04-02-2009).][/B]



The Yamaha DX-7 weighs 31.2 pounds...
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#260735 - 04/02/09 05:55 AM Re: Best Arranger LIVE !!
Fran Carango Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9043
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
For me..key feel is one of the important things....As Diki says...Your playing skills are developed, including touch..This development, at least for me, was on high quality keys..Even my accordions had the best action..I even had the action modified...

To compromise on key feel, especially for the sake of a lighter keyboard...is just wrong....It seems like some of you guys have been playing inferior keys so long...you don't know the difference...
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#260736 - 04/02/09 06:23 AM Re: Best Arranger LIVE !!
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 39966
Loc: NJ
One, Two, Cha, Cha, Cha,

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#260737 - 04/02/09 06:29 AM Re: Best Arranger LIVE !!
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10593
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Fran Carango:
To compromise on key feel, especially for the sake of a lighter keyboard...is just wrong.


Of course it is wrong Fran...that's why I use the Yamaha PSR-S900...there is no compromise...it has great key feel/response and it is wonderfully lightweight and portable.

Plus, it sounds awesome.

Conversely, maybe it is you that is doing the compromising...you need to have a heavy, bulky, and awkward to move keyboard to get the key feel that you feel works best for your needs.

So, it all depends on one's perspective, doesn't it?

Have a good day buddy, and don't forget to keep your stick on the ice, and remember...if women don't find you handsome, at least let them find you handy.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 04-02-2009).]
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#260738 - 04/02/09 02:34 PM Re: Best Arranger LIVE !!
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
So why isn't an NP-30 what you use for piano, Ian (or at least a non-weighted 88)... I mean, if a volume control is all you need, why lug around a full 88 weighted action when a toy 88 would do the job JUST as well?

Your own purchasing decisions contradict your position here... but then again, I suppose you could say that consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds (like me an' Fran )...

Try putting that premise to any top PRO player lugging an RD700 around, or MotifXS8 or Nord Stage 88 (or the weighted 76). Tell them they are wasting their time using a fully weighted (or even half-weighted) action, when a non-weighted PSR keyboard does the job JUST as well. In fact, tell the customers at the piano stores you go to that 'fact'.

Watch them laugh their asses off...

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#260739 - 04/02/09 02:46 PM Re: Best Arranger LIVE !!
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 15697
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
The lighter and faster the action the better for me. I'm not a piano player. Never was. I'm an instrument emulator, and I feel that's the primary function of arranger keyboards. Many things simply cannot be done on fully-weighted heavy action keys, at least by me.
I generally make it a policy to never let piano players play my keyboards. I prefer to break them myself. It's the old mentality that "if I pound it harder, it will go louder".
In the words of one of my heroes, Waylan Jennings: "WRONG".
BTW, go ahead an Google Waylan and Wrong. It's a funny song.
DonM
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DonM

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#260740 - 04/02/09 04:22 PM Re: Best Arranger LIVE !!
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10593
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
So why isn't an NP-30 what you use for piano, Ian (or at least a non-weighted 88)...
Try putting that premise to any top PRO player lugging an RD700 around, or MotifXS8 or Nord Stage 88 (or the weighted 76). Tell them they are wasting their time using a fully weighted (or even half-weighted) action, when a non-weighted PSR keyboard does the job JUST as well.


Diki,

The reason I don't use an NP-30 for piano is that I prefer weighted hammer action.

Also, it only has 76 keys, and like your G70, it feels nothing like a real piano, although it does have it's purpose for those wanting a beginner piano that's light in weight and has graded soft touch velocity sensitive keys.

That's why for solo piano, I use a Yamaha P85 which has a lovely smooth 88 note graded hammer keyboard that is a delight to play.

I don't want to compromise my chops.

I don't mind using two keyboards if it means I don't have to compromise keyboard feel for each style of play...piano is just another sound on my arranger, and a weighted or semi-weighted keyboard is unnecessary...synth action works perfectly, and keeps the arranger light and transportable.

I don't play my arranger as a piano...I don't play my piano as an arranger...I have the best of both worlds and it works fine for me.

Taken together, and in their soft gig bags, they weigh less than a G70 in it's road-case, and considering I have the luxury of carrying them one at a time, they are very easy to transport.

In some cases, I can even leave one of them at home, depending on the type of gig.

I certainly wouldn't recommend a PSR (or a G70, for that matter) to a player who expects his instrument to actually feel like a piano...but I would definitely recommend the P85 as a terrific graded hammer action lightweight stage piano, and the PSR-S900 as an incredibly efficient and compact arranger.

If the setup/tear-down time is a little longer, it doesn't matter...I plan for it, and it is well worth it.

So, in conclusion, you may love the convenience(?)) of having it all in one, albeit, quite heavy, instrument, but for me, this setup is the bee's knees.





[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 04-03-2009).]
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#260741 - 04/03/09 05:11 AM Re: Best Arranger LIVE !!
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10593
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by DonM:
It's the old mentality that "if I pound it harder, it will go louder".
In the words of one of my heroes, Waylan Jennings: "WRONG".
BTW, go ahead an Google Waylan and Wrong. It's a funny song.
DonM


What I find amusing is someone pounding away on an electronic instrument....back in the day with acoustic pianos, the player had to play hard to be heard over the guitar players, but now instruments have amplification and a very handy volume control.

Pounding on an electronic keyboard is akin to pressing harder on the TV remote buttons when the batteries are getting weak.

I looked up Waylon's tune...he's a favorite of mine...great song and too funny...love the bit at the end.

The steel drums are a neat touch.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#260742 - 04/03/09 11:42 AM Re: Best Arranger LIVE !!
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 13047
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:

Pounding on an electronic keyboard is akin to pressing harder on the TV remote buttons when the batteries are getting weak.

Ian


Are you trying to tell me that DOESN'T work ?!?!?


t.
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