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#256634 - 02/18/09 05:28 PM Re: Fran Congrats on your New Media Station!
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14203
Loc: NW Florida
If it takes an exceptional player, with exceptional skills at creating entire pieces of music FROM SCRATCH to make styles and decent music on the MS, well that's a pretty small demographic, right there.

Give a TOTL WS to everyone on this forum, tell them to make something that betters the output of their arranger, I guarantee you could count on the fingers of one hand those that could succeed. Maybe the thumbs of one hand..

Here is the problem in a nutshell (again )... Only the very highest of skill players and programmers CAN make great music on this thing. But let's face it. What do players of that caliber actually play and do? Well, they aren't in OMB's, for one thing. You play THAT good, you get to play in great bands (when you want to play live at all). And the rest of the time, you are in the studio, where you already have the same tools that the MS provides, and more (and no Linux bull to deal with).

So why would the intended target buyer need one?

But you know who DOES need the MS? Someone with a T3, or PA2, who goes 'I wish this thing could do loops and VSTi's AS WELL'.... and there's the rub. With a T3, you give up the VSTi's, etc.. And with the MS, you give up the T3 capabilities (in other words, great styles and sounds ready to go).

What everybody REALLY wants is BOTH

The day Dom provides that, it will take off like a rocket... Why do I bother? Because I want the MS to be BOTH. I don't need a VSTi loopstation. Got one. I need an arranger that is also a VSTi loopstation. And Dom STILL hasn't got the 'arranger' part down. The thing that really twists my rope is that this is the only product that COULD be both. The MS only needs a great soundset and great styles, and you are good to go... So close, and yet so far. When will you all get it into your head that the only reason I keep this up is to maybe get through Dom's stubbornness about styling and voicing the MS..? I really WANT ONE... If it worked!

The MS is an arranger for people that don't need an arranger...

And that's not me....
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#256635 - 02/18/09 09:14 PM Re: Fran Congrats on your New Media Station!
to the genesys Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 1155
If the arranger has great styles, and a user is too lazy and unskilled to change or make new styles, then of what value would "VSTi loopstation" be to you on an arranger? It sounds as if a user is unable to change or create styles then the T3 / G70 is the best keyboard for them so why should they even care about the mediastation (a concept they just do not get). VSTs would be of no value to them because you would have to have skill to use them and as lots of people seem to think, arranger users on this forum do not have skills to properly use a musical electronic keyboard.

[This message has been edited by to the genesys (edited 02-18-2009).]
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#256636 - 02/18/09 10:45 PM Re: Fran Congrats on your New Media Station!
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Quote:
Originally posted by WDMcM:
Hi guys,

I have been following the threads on the Mediastation for quite a while and think it is a very cool idea. Is it the arranger to end all arrangers? Well, there is no such thing. Everybody has their own way of working/playing, and their own opinions on what sounds good, what makes a style good or bad, what buttons and sliders should appear on the front panel and where those should be placed. Certain features are a must for some, and useless to others. The neat thing about the Mediastation is that it is so customizable. This of course may be a downside to those players that rely on factory styles, sounds, etc. and have no desire and/or no ability to create a unique sound for themselves. Nothing wrong with that at all. But for the player who would like to offer a more unique musical experience for their audience and not sound like the next guy, the huge flexibility of the Mediastation is a real plus.

As most of you know, I used to work for Generalmusic. While the Genesys isn't the same type of instrument as the Mediastation, it still offered more flexibility than some of the other dedicated arranger keyboards for those who wanted to experiment and do some customization. This is why I loved the Genesys so much and why I am very interested in the Mediastation. I enjoyed working for Generalmusic because of the innovations that they developed. Things like lyrics display, internal vocal harmonizer, internal hard drive and CD burner, hiding a real full-fledged workstation inside an arranger keyboard, etc. To me it is exciting that Domenik and Lionstracs are in the process of creating innovative products that push current technologies to the limit of what is achievable.

OK, so here is my main reason for posting: (and please donít think I am being argumentative, I am really trying to understand)

It just doesn't make sense how some of you talk so badly about the Mediastation and Domenik. If you are happy with your Yamaha, Roland, Korg, or whatever, then why bother putting this instrument down? It seems to me that Domenik has been pretty accommodating in that when someone asks for a specific function, sound-base, etc. that he goes to work on trying to supply that. Keep in mind the vast amount of work involved in developing and instrument like this and the time it can take to get other companies to comply with requests to make a compatible version of their product so as to work in the Mediastation. You must realize that this instrument is NOT designed for one particular function, but designed to be whatever the user wants it to be. It may be that a forum focused on arranger keyboards is not the best place to even bring up an instrument like this because it is so different than what most of the Synth Zone members are familiar with and that it is not a cookie cutter arranger keyboard.

So I donít understand why some of you insist on making derogatory statements about a company that is simply trying to do business by creating an instrument that utilizes existing technology in a unique way. If it is not of interest to you, then why say anything? As for me, I think it is pretty cool that another company in Italy is working to produce a unique product that will answer the needs of many professional and home-based musicians.

Best Regards,

Dave



/signed

Very well put....

And its the same reason i was attracted by GEM when they started this innovation with their WX2, which was far ahead of its time...

Same goes for mediastation in these days of computer orientated music.
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#256637 - 02/18/09 11:46 PM Re: Fran Congrats on your New Media Station!
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5352
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Yamaha Tyros styles (Including Mega voices)

Midi part styles

Ability to use VST

Ability to use other samples

Ability to make it your own

A compact user friendly interface

No Linux Bull (Dikis words not mine, Iíve never had any problem with it)

Already played by thousands of professional musicians, as well as countless home musicians

Appeared many times on TV, in Concert Halls, Football stadiums etc

Well I donít know where you have been hiding Diki, but a board that has done all the above has been around for years.

If you donít like the idea just say so, but donít try and make out that an open keyboard cannot or hasnít done the above.

Regards

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (IÔŅĹm definitely staying put).

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#256638 - 02/19/09 12:57 AM Re: Fran Congrats on your New Media Station!
Nigel Offline
Admin

Registered: 06/01/98
Posts: 6483
Loc: Ventura CA USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
How long do I have to hear excuses and evasion, when simply a great piece of MUSIC would shut this thread up once and for all



This is exactly your problem. This thread didn't start because of you even though you have somehow come to think it did. You are very OCD about this keyboard. This thread is called "Fran Congrats on your New Media Station!" not "Diki what do you think about MS". You have attempted to hijack this thread like you have with many others before and that is not at all acceptable.

We know exactly what you viewpoint is and we understand it .... but we have heard it dozens of times now and really don't need to hear it again and don't WANT to hear it again. This is NOT your thread so you don't get to determine what it would take to end it .... do you really understand that??? I'm not so sure you do.

I know you are a great player Diki so I don't at all doubt your musical talent and I do value your opinion. But I only need to hear your opinion once. More than once simply becomes obsessive. Do you undertand that? Really??

Sure I would like to hear an example of what can be done on the MS, but the same thing can be said of hearing a PC based arranger system. Because after all that is exactly what the MS is with a keyboard attached. But I only need to state that once. Now I have said it once and that is quite enough.

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#256639 - 02/19/09 04:58 AM Re: Fran Congrats on your New Media Station!
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Nigel.
______________

It sounds like a number of the negatively aimed posts are fueled by the frustration of waiting. I hate waiting. I am one of those "I've got to have it NOW" kinds of people. On the other hand, certain things take time. My coffee machine takes 5 minutes, pasta takes 10 minutes, and grits take 20 minutes, and so on. We're all waiting to die, and even then we'll have to wait to be buried. IT JUST NEVER ENDS!

But seriously;
I can see how some of you are frustrated because you want to see/hear/touch the Mediastation. Having worked for several keyboard manufactures, involved in new product design among other things, I can tell you that it takes sometimes years to develop a new product and bring it to market. Oh, that can be chopped down to months if you are basically re-packaging an existing product. But to design an instrument with an entirely unique platform from scratch, well, that takes time.

Actually you should consider yourselves lucky. What do I mean? The way I see it, Domenik has taken you all into his confidence and let you be involved in the design stages of a new product. Most of the time you don't know a new product is coming out until the day after you just spent your hard earned money on what you thought was the latest instrument from your manufacturer of choice.

Personally I think it is great that a company is willing and has the technical knowhow to delve into a project like the Mediastation. You probably won't see any of the more popular keyboard manufacturers attempt something like this because there is no instant gratification of huge sales. Although I can imagine that as more and more people realize the potential of such an instrument, those manufacturers will do what they have done in the past and create a cookie cutter to stamp out copies of their new technology. Sorry to stoop to a negative comment, but it just galls me how some companies copy features of more talented designers and make out like it is their own idea. Been happening for years. And consumers go right along with it. To me it's similar to the big box stores putting the small private stores out of business. Or like a fellow musician undercutting your price to steal your gigs. Or...

OK, Iím done.

Best Regards,

Dave

BTW: Hey Fran, how are you doing with your new purchase? Give us an update. Weíre on the edge of our seats.


------------------
Wm. David McMahan
LearnMyKeyboard
JazzItUp Band


[This message has been edited by WDMcM (edited 02-19-2009).]

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#256640 - 02/19/09 08:22 AM Re: Fran Congrats on your New Media Station!
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
... but Fran, you'll have to start your own thread about how you like the MS.

DonM
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DonM

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#256641 - 02/19/09 08:57 AM Re: Fran Congrats on your New Media Station!
keybplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2417
Loc: CA
Quote:
"BTW: Hey Fran, how are you doing with your new purchase? Give us an update. Weíre on the edge of our seats."


Maybe he really did kick the bucket?!?..

I'm open to the Mediastation just like I'm open as well to the Ketron Audya. They are both novel, innovative products, and worth serious consideration from folks like us who cherish high-end arranger technology and the innovation that embodies them.

Domenick certainly has shown admirable resilience to our barrage of criticism and negative comments about his "baby", but believe me he can handle it. If he couldn't handle it he would have vamoosed long ago without so much as a "see 'ya later alligator"..

I do think the "pressure" put on Domenick to produce some semblance of "decent" demos of the Mediastation (whether video, or audio only) is a 'reasonable' request by SZ members. For one thing it would go a looooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggggg way in providing something that puts "meat" on the table where we could bite into and gain a renewed respect and interest in his keyboard product(s). As I've said many times before "sounds" are thee 'most' important aspect of any and every keyboard. To provide consumers with a product that "compares" to the competition in the sound department is something each manufacturer (domenick included) should try to attain to. Besides, a few good sound/style demos would go a long way to benefit the marketing of the Mediastation. The lack of good or superior sound demos has been the biggest drawback in garnering enthusiastic interest about the Mediastation in my humble opinion. Needless to say, it is up to Domenick to build a machine that will hopefully live up to that ideal. Maybe the Mediastation is already near that level or will soon be at that ideal, but you really can't personally gauge that by the demos that have been posted or released thus far. So in a way, it is a case of "put up or shut up" as Diki has said soooooooooooo many times.

Talking the talk is nice I suppose, as it can cause warm fuzzy feelings upfront; but in reality, it is basically superficial and transient in nature. The other "more important" consideration in the equation is "walking the walk", which needless to say, puts much needed 'substance' to all the talk. And that, ultimately, should be the gist of all the "hype" about the Mediastation, not the hype itself of course.

We're still waiting Fran.
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Mackie HR824 MKII Studio Monitors, Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro Mixer (made in USA), Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Shure SM58 vocal mic.

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#256642 - 02/19/09 08:57 AM Re: Fran Congrats on your New Media Station!
Anonymous
Unregistered


Good idea.

------------------
Wm. David McMahan
LearnMyKeyboard
JazzItUp Band

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#256643 - 02/23/09 11:17 AM Re: Fran Congrats on your New Media Station!
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14203
Loc: NW Florida
So, any thread HAS to stay completely OT? Or is it just ME? There's only ONE thing to write on this thread? Congratulations, Fran. Riveting!

How many other people have to chime in to say that the complete lack of any factory OR user demos of any quality IS a telling point before SOMEONE gets off their arse and proves that THEY 'get it'?

We ALL 'get it'. Theoretically.

But surely an owner, if not the manufacturer himself, 'gets it' in a more practical sense? The MS is not a technological achievement. It's a MUSICAL INSTRUMENT. For making MUSIC. Not proving that you 'get' technology when others don't. Purchasing a piece of technology does NOT prove that you 'get it'. Making something with it proves that you TRULY have 'got it'
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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