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#255282 - 01/31/09 05:03 PM PA Upgrade
shim Offline
Member

Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 287
Loc: USA
I currently have a stagepass 300 and would like to upgrade it for a louder sound and heavier sound, (also for a bigger hall)

What would you guys suggest?

Currently, i'm looking on this: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/search.php?s=s%3Ajbl_eon500&go=Go%21

Thank you

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#255283 - 01/31/09 05:32 PM Re: PA Upgrade
shim Offline
Member

Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 287
Loc: USA
Would two srm450's v2 do good?
And does it need a subwoofer?

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#255284 - 01/31/09 06:36 PM Re: PA Upgrade
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 13847
Loc: NW Florida
That's a pretty good choice there...

Smaller gigs you might not need the sub, bigger ones add it in...

Alternatively, if you think you want the sub all the time, you MIGHT look at Mackie's 10" SRM. They'll be lighter and cheaper and the sub will make them sound a LOT bigger...

Just a thought.
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#255285 - 01/31/09 08:54 PM Re: PA Upgrade
Kingfrog Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1099
Loc: Myrtle beach SC
Quote:
Originally posted by shim:
Would two srm450's v2 do good?
And does it need a subwoofer?


+1 Mackies...I don;t think you would need a SB with the 450s unless you do a lot of Dance music. People who dance are accustomed to deep loud chest ripping BASS.

For vocals and Pop Music IMHO they are fine.
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#255286 - 02/01/09 05:35 AM Re: PA Upgrade
Bill in Dayton Offline
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Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 2176
Loc: Dayton, OH USA
For a few hundred more you could have a Bose L1 system.

I've tried many different PA's and recently moved to the Bose L1 and I could not be more pleased.

Just last night, my quartet played in a large banquet hall for a private business association. We ran my Tyros2, bass, drums, sax and all vocals through a small Yamaha box mixer then ran line outputs into the Bose.

After the gig was over, the client told us that we never sounded better and that he heard compliments all night on how clear and clean everything sounded.

Dance floor was packed all night, and a few others also commented how great we sounded.

Likewise, we are in love with how we sound now...

I use the L1 model with one sub...

I think the guys would cry if I told them we were going back to the old traditional system.

Also, tear down for the band with the traditional system, was usually 35-40 minutes.

Last night we stopped played at 11:00pm, by 11:20pm we were all back on the road heading for home.

With a no questions asked, 45 day full refund period to try it out, I'd strongly suggest you give the Bose a listen.

Bill

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Bill in Dayton
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#255287 - 02/01/09 05:44 AM Re: PA Upgrade
shim Offline
Member

Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 287
Loc: USA
Bill, I appreciate your suggestion, but if I am spending that much money, I'd rather go with "traditional" speakers...

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#255288 - 02/01/09 05:49 AM Re: PA Upgrade
Bill in Dayton Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 2176
Loc: Dayton, OH USA
Quote:
Originally posted by shim:
Bill, I appreciate your suggestion, but if I am spending that much money, I'd rather go with "traditional" speakers...



Why?

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Bill in Dayton
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#255289 - 02/01/09 05:55 AM Re: PA Upgrade
shim Offline
Member

Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 287
Loc: USA
Because this Bose thing seems a bit of a weird kind of speaker system and is not the standard in my area... Don't know if it will suite my needs (and also be loud enough...)Thank you anyway though.

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#255290 - 02/01/09 06:04 AM Re: PA Upgrade
Bill in Dayton Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 2176
Loc: Dayton, OH USA
Quote:
Originally posted by shim:
Because this Bose thing seems a bit of a weird kind of speaker system and is not the standard in my area... Don't know if it will suite my needs (and also be loud enough...)Thank you anyway though.


It's not the standard anywhere...

Its not "weird," its just something that most people haven't seen first hand. You could say the same thing about Arranger keyboards a few years ago, eh? Were they right? Of course not.

Its 500 watts of power, so if you need more than that, then God bless you...

Can you tell us more about your kind of music, how often you perform, what kind of venues, etc?

I'm not saying its the correct choice, I'm just saying to reject it because its "weird" and "not the standard" PA in your area sounds to me, a little misguided.

The best decisions are the most informed ones and we usually benefit from taking an objective look at our options.

------------------
Bill in Dayton
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#255291 - 02/01/09 08:14 AM Re: PA Upgrade
travlin'easy Online   happy
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15406
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Shim,

I have to agree with Bill. The L1, however, is 750-watts RMS (1,500-watts peak) power with a single sub woofer. The Mackies are good speakers, but they're heavy, and need to be placed on poles (stands) for the larger jobs. The L1 is relatively lightweight, does not need stands, and will handle pretty much any OMB, duo, trio etc.. venue with audiences to 1,000 or less.

As for tradition, the L1, which is a vertical array system, has been around for longer than most folks realize. You're hearing them in churches, theaters, large banquet halls and lots of other places. Many, many years ago I installed vertical arrays for Executone Corporation. The vast majority of them were installed in churches and movie theaters, locations where they wanted the audiences to hear the same volume throughout the room. Executone had several systems available, many of which were custom made to fit right in with the interior decor. In churches they were in the form of a curved wooden beam that fit into each corner of the church's main hall. You had to really look closely to tell they were speaker cabinets with 8 to 12 speakers within each enclosure.

More recently, many manufacturers of traditional sound systems have jumped on the vertical array band wagon. This was evidenced at the last NAAM show. Hopefully, George Kay will jump in here and provide some more detailed information on the new systems.

One thing to keep in mind. Peavey, Mackey, Yamaha, Roland, and most others will not give you 45-days to play their system, then allow you to return it with no questions asked. Bose will! The ultimate decision is, obviously, yours, however, you may want to reconsider checking out the Bose L1. I've been using it for nearly three years and I would never go back to a conventional system.

Good Luck on whatever you decide upon,

Gary
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#255292 - 02/01/09 08:18 AM Re: PA Upgrade
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43681
Loc: USA
With One PAS The only thing you'll give up is STEREO....otherwise the Bose system works fine. I prefere 2 powered speakers for versatility.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 02-01-2009).]
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#255294 - 02/01/09 09:47 AM Re: PA Upgrade
Kingfrog Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1099
Loc: Myrtle beach SC
B O S E



[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 02-01-2009).]
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#255295 - 02/01/09 09:55 AM Re: PA Upgrade
frankieve Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/24/99
Posts: 1674
Loc: Milford, CT, USA
Line array has made a big jump in the personal small systems.

At the Namm show they had a couple of live acts, one of them was outside with a mackie powered system, sounded good, but you had to be in the sweet spot, and the fall off was very bad.

the also had a band inside who used the line array that had the portable Bose look but just bigger, they sounded great with an amazing sound coverage, and they were playing about 200 feet from glass with minimul slap back effect.

Also on another note with mackie, looks like they are having a little bit of trouble with their china plants and such.

If you want powered speakers, i think you should also look at other manufacturers. I know there a very big fans of mackie srm450's but it was and is an old design, that companies like RCF did.

I'm doing a club system next month with all FBT powered speakers.

At NAMM mackie showed barely anything, it's like they are getting out of the business.

Dynacord showed an amazing mini powered system with built in amps and subs that sounded amazing and was loud.

There are so many different companies and form factors, what works for one person may not for another, what sounds good to one may not to another.

the bottom line PERIOD, you get what you pay for. !!!

just because it's loud don't mean it's good

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203.876.1133
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#255296 - 02/01/09 10:00 AM Re: PA Upgrade
Kingfrog Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1099
Loc: Myrtle beach SC
Quote:
Originally posted by Kingfrog:
[b] [QUOTE]Originally posted by shim:
[b]Bill, I appreciate your suggestion, but if I am spending that much money, I'd rather go with "traditional" speakers...


WOW Thats the WRONG reason out of every possible reason . The "standerd" is what EVERYBODY uses. You want to stand APART from the pack and in a GOOD way.

Frank is right Mackies are no longer US made which had been a big selling point. They moved to China and kept the same pricing...

We use the Bose and would not go back to anything. It wasn't the traditional standard around here either but though the use of it I have sold 5 systems since October to OMBs and duos as well as two to the Big M Casino Boat...they run those on the top Deck in the open air since last Fall out in the Salt air and they run like a champ and are warrantied for 5 years anyway..I did not want to be the one to bring them up since they were not in your choice basket....(one two friggin cha cha cha and all that) but now that they have been brought up, they far better choice on many levels AND as been said THEY WILL be a conversation piece with your audiences and clients which can lengthen the 10 minute "load out" . They "advertise" you are up to date and are a risk taker not "traditional" you will be "the guy the REMEMBER with the "cool and very good sound system" My wife (and I Sometimes) are one of the few OMB that is still working in the Winter months around here. I think that has a lot to do with the sound as well as what she brings to the table musically. Array systems are on the way from many manufacturers. As usual one company takes the risk, others follow their SUCCESS.

The cost would be 25% (actually less than that you don;t need speaker poles, speaker cable and a monitor and but the depreciation is VERY low and Ancillary needs are ZERO (except for a mixer) if you go for the Mod I. We SOLD a Standard Mackie/JBL MR system to get the BOse and never looked back.

YEP you will loose stereo. The benefits far outweigh that negative (if it is a negative)In a large room stereo is not the way to go unless your speakers are 20' apart on a dance floor.but no one dancing is "LISTENING" they are "hearing" and would not notice a mono mix unless you are covering Pink Floyd. No one has ever asked about stereo in a working environment. Stereo requires a sweet spot to gain the full benefit. How many people can one squeeze into the sweet spot in a lose range. The farther apart the speakers are the farther the listeners have to be to hear the best Stereo has to offer. The rest are hearing one side of the mix more than the other and earlier than the other. Especially the closer listeners to one side. EVERYONE hears (including you) the EXACT same mix with the Bose. I know sounds like a Bose commercial but we bought ours BEFORE our store became dealers. I brought the Bose line into the store AFTER paying full retail LOL.

+10000 on the BOSE

Fringgin 1 2 cha cha cha.......



[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 02-01-2009).]
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros 4
Yamaha Motif XS8
Roland RD700
Casio PX-330
Martin DC Aura
Breedlove ATlas Solo
Bose MOD II PA

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#255297 - 02/01/09 11:23 AM Re: PA Upgrade
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
+1 Mackie all the way.
Lee
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#255298 - 02/01/09 02:07 PM Re: PA Upgrade
frankieve Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/24/99
Posts: 1674
Loc: Milford, CT, USA
I forgot to say even, though I sell mostly conventional speaker systems, I perform using the Bose PAS systems
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#255299 - 02/01/09 02:09 PM Re: PA Upgrade
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43681
Loc: USA
Quote:
Originally posted by frankieve:

I forgot to say even, though I sell mostly conventional speaker systems, I perform using the Bose PAS systems


Frank do you use 2 Bose in stereo?
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#255300 - 02/01/09 10:51 PM Re: PA Upgrade
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 13847
Loc: NW Florida
Bose fans will say Bose every time. And pretend that there AREN'T any people who have tried them and found them lacking. But there are. So, it's a push.

Try them out, for sure. But don't believe that they are the PERFECT PA for everyone. Just for those that find them perfect. They are just like arrangers. What's perfect for one is not right for another...
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#255301 - 02/02/09 04:25 AM Re: PA Upgrade
Bill in Dayton Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 2176
Loc: Dayton, OH USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Bose fans will say Bose every time. And pretend that there AREN'T any people who have tried them and found them lacking. But there are. So, it's a push.

Try them out, for sure. But don't believe that they are the PERFECT PA for everyone. Just for those that find them perfect. They are just like arrangers. What's perfect for one is not right for another...


"I'm not saying its the correct choice, I'm just saying to reject it because its "weird" and "not the standard" PA in your area sounds to me, a little misguided. "



------------------
Bill in Dayton
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#255303 - 02/02/09 07:39 AM Re: PA Upgrade
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43681
Loc: USA
Those presets arent the greatest...leave the Bose Flat & EQ your gear.
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#255304 - 02/02/09 07:43 AM Re: PA Upgrade
Tom Cavanaugh Offline
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Registered: 12/06/99
Posts: 2133
Loc: Muskegon, MI
Donny,

You heard and used Don's Bose in Shreveport, it sounds like you still aren't impressed. Why?

Tom
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Tom

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#255305 - 02/02/09 08:06 AM Re: PA Upgrade
captain Russ Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 7228
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
It's really simple: Some of us love the Bose sound; some don't. I play 4 jobs a month with a great acoustic guitar player, who uses a Bose. I alternate with him and play upright with him. I use my own system, because I simply don't like the Bose sound.Plus, I use 3 acoustic instruments and three keyboards, so I need more mixing capacity.

But, hey, we're still friends...I just think he sounds like CRAP (LOL).

The lesson here is, play whatever you're comfortable with. I mean, Shure Vocal Masters still RULE!


Yea!


Russ "stuck in the 60's" Lay

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#255306 - 02/02/09 08:30 AM Re: PA Upgrade
travlin'easy Online   happy
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15406
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Hey Russ. I just told your guitar players what you said. Man are you in trouble!

Gary
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#255307 - 02/02/09 08:47 AM Re: PA Upgrade
captain Russ Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 7228
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
Gary, real trouble is looking across the croud and seeing three really angry women, all sitting together, waiting for the break.

That was years ago, mind you. Never could figure out why they couldn't take a joke!

Ah, the memories...


Russ "dateless and desperate" Lay

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#255308 - 02/02/09 10:11 AM Re: PA Upgrade
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43681
Loc: USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Tom Cavanaugh:
Donny,
You heard and used Don's Bose in Shreveport, it sounds like you still aren't impressed. Why?
Tom


Tom I also owned & performed with the PAS when they first came out...for 5 months I gigged with it everywhere in all different size rooms....from 50 pp to 500pp..

I have no problems sound wise with this unit....it's sounds excellent for my needs & the MONO vs Stereo Issue I could live with.
For me & why I sold it was more of a Transporting & set up issue lugging around that big round base, sub, & two poles...in & out many times twice a day....& not needed for the smaller venues so then I had to lug a small single amp also for those because the BOSE isn't warranted for 50 or less pp.....for the bigger shows I do all the time it was fine....but adding all those pieces & breaking down & setting up all day long was the straw that broke the camels back....people that stay in one venue every week is no problem they dont have to lug it around every day... I dont need 4 more pieces added to the rig....when one or two powered 15"s sound just as good & much easier to hook up and be versatile using 1 or two.....I have yet too try the NEW Bose with the smaller footprint......we had the old model at the jam.
So it comes down to user comfort Tom in a nut shell.

take care
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#255309 - 02/02/09 10:45 AM Re: PA Upgrade
frankieve Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/24/99
Posts: 1674
Loc: Milford, CT, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
Frank do you use 2 Bose in stereo?



Depending on the size of the job, it's usually just one, but sometimes I play with the full band which then I have up to 4 in use.



------------------
www.AudioworksCT.com
203.876.1133
_________________________
www.AudioProCT.com
Frank@AudioProCT.com

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#255311 - 02/02/09 10:51 AM Re: PA Upgrade
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43681
Loc: USA
Quote:
Originally posted by frankieve:
Depending on the size of the job, it's usually just one, but sometimes I play with the full band which then I have up to 4 in use.



Frank 4 has to sound awesome.....good luck out there!
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#255312 - 02/02/09 12:01 PM Re: PA Upgrade
Impuls Offline
Member

Registered: 02/24/02
Posts: 611
Loc: Netherlands
Europe's answer >> http://www.fohhn.com/index.php?id=12&L=1&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=290&cHash=938d0f0535

Impuls.
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#255313 - 02/02/09 12:45 PM Re: PA Upgrade
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43681
Loc: USA
Quote:
Originally posted by BBBB:
Donny: I have the new model II. I even use it for groups of less than 50. It is lighter and less of a footprint but you still have the the 2 1/2 poles,the B1 and the the lighter stand so it probably doesn't meet your needs from a transport point of view. Cheers! Brian


Brian thanx for the reply....If I was stationary in one place every week Id definitly use the Bose system....but with my grueling gig schedule in so many different venues day after day with time restraints sometimes with less then an hour in between the Bose isn't feasible.

Good luck with yours use it well & make great Music!!
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#255314 - 02/04/09 06:26 PM Re: PA Upgrade
hellboy44 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/03
Posts: 541
Loc: Australia
Hi Donny, I just want to say I admire how you have (imo) changed your tune slightly re the Bose. I seem to remember (or maybe more accurately - it felt to me like) you had a very low opinion of the system and people who used it - apart from your transport/setup issues.

I now find your comments helpful and constructive on this and other recent "what PA should I buy" threads.

I mean this sincerely, I think you're a great example of being a helpful, objective forum member.

Peace
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