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#241726 - 09/03/08 06:38 PM Re: What is Yamaha saying to us with a 61key T3 vs a 76 key one?
keybplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2416
Loc: CA
Quote:
Originally posted by DanO1:
I think it is based more on what sells in Europe vs. what the USA market dictates.
My understanding is that 61 keys is widely acceptable in Europe. Its that cut & dry .


Yes, 61 keys is widely acceptable in the Home Hobbyist market segment, but for gigging professionals, 76 keys or better is the Axe of choice in Europe (and beyond).

Don't get me wrong. The T3 does have a few pro level features on it like two sets of MIDI I/O connections but you can find many keyboards with one MIDI I/O for the fraction of the T3's asking price of $4,000. It also has Step Recording which is a pro feature in my opinion, but the T3 will still lack pro level micro editing capability on it which will negate some of the effectiveness of using the Step Recording feature and/or the other features on the T3 that may require pro level micro editing.

Yes, the T3 will have a few PRO level features as well as some of the sounds that could be considered on a professional grade, but having only 61 keys is NOT one of them in my opinion. Unless, of course, you're mostly dedicated to playing just the Organs on the T3. Then again, the T3 doesn't have Waterfall keys unfortunately, even though Yamaha is specifically touting the T3's FSX keybed for "Organ" use. Oh well.. such is life in Yammie's arranger keyboard land I guess.

Best,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 09-03-2008).]
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Yamaha Genos, Mackie HR824 MKII Studio Monitors, Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro Mixer (made in USA), Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Shure SM58 vocal mic.

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#241727 - 09/03/08 06:54 PM Re: What is Yamaha saying to us with a 61key T3 vs a 76 key one?
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40927
Quote:
Originally posted by keybplayer:
It also has Step Recording which is a pro feature in my opinion, but the T3 will still lack pro level micro editing capability on it which will negate some of the effectiveness of using the Step Recording feature and/or the other features on the T3 that may require pro level micro editing.


With all the great editing software programs available ....who cares if step recording in onboard or not....you can anything on your pc & in many ways much easier. In this day & age of technology IMO they should put their money into what real users ARE ASKING FOR!

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#241728 - 09/03/08 07:10 PM Re: What is Yamaha saying to us with a 61key T3 vs a 76 key one?
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4643
Loc: West Virginia
Donny.., PC's are fine and dandy, but since when did it become so cumbersome to edit this data within the keyboard itself? I'd like to know who in the higher powers that be decided that Step Recording is no longer needed onboard..., considering how many pros and non pros used it. There are many Motif XS owners that were pissed to see Yamaha dropped stepped recording on their top synth. They clearly did it to push the use of their software because EVERYTIME you mentioned it.., they just told you to use their software.

Features like STEP RECORDINS is something the REAL USERS are well.., USING. Step recording is used widely in techno, dance, and other styles of electronic. Most arranger players tend to stick to classic styles anyways though, but it's not uncommon for someone who has absolutely no skill in recording drums on the keys to use step recording to input this data. This is common on both arrangers and synths.
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GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

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#241729 - 09/03/08 07:17 PM Re: What is Yamaha saying to us with a 61key T3 vs a 76 key one?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott Langholff:
...they are from my experience saying there is a small amount of people who buy these products that would use 76 keys and that 61 keys fits the needs of the market they are going after.


That's it in a nutshell, Scott.

Certainly would make sense to all but the most narrow of mind and short of sight.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#241730 - 09/03/08 07:55 PM Re: What is Yamaha saying to us with a 61key T3 vs a 76 key one?
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 13265
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
FWIW ... the on board Step Recording in my technics kn6000 is a valuable tool that is easy to use ...

t.
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#241731 - 09/03/08 10:50 PM Re: What is Yamaha saying to us with a 61key T3 vs a 76 key one?
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
If Yamaha made NO 76's or 88's, you'd have a point.

But, obviously, they DO realize there is a LARGE market for arrangers with this layout. However, their internal divisions have already got this covered, albeit with FAR inferior arrangers to the T2 and S900. But rather than shake up their little fiefdoms of internal market share, and actually give the customers what they have been screaming for for years now, they prefer to stick to their antediluvian product models, no matter HOW much the scene has changed.

Their internal politics has stripped them of an opportunity to deal a blow to their competition, and I am sure Roland and Korg and Ketron are very grateful that Yamaha is so inflexible...

Believe me, if Yamaha thought there was NO market for a 76 arranger, they wouldn't make DGX's. The trouble is, those are POS arrangers compared to an S900, yet alone a T2/3. It's not that Yamaha can't make a 76, it's that Yamaha can't make a GOOD one...

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#241732 - 09/04/08 05:57 AM Re: What is Yamaha saying to us with a 61key T3 vs a 76 key one?
Jerryghr Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 1356
Loc: Buffalo, NY
Yamaha has been making keyboards since 1962. They have not been successful by accident. They do their market research and determine which keyboards they can produce and still make a profit.

Attached is a list of past keyboards broken down into their classiffication of "professional keyboards" and "home keyboards".
http://www.yamaha.co.jp/manual/english/chron.php

Some people choose to use a home keyboard for professional use.

I use my PSR3000 for both and love it.

Before purchasing the PSR series, I played professionally for many years using 41 keys (Cordovox) and never heard a complaint that it didn't do the job.

Regards,

Jerry

[This message has been edited by Jerryghr (edited 09-04-2008).]

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#241733 - 09/04/08 06:05 AM Re: What is Yamaha saying to us with a 61key T3 vs a 76 key one?
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 14578
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
It's not that Yamaha can't make a 76, it's that Yamaha can't make a GOOD one...


I'm confident that Yamaha can design and produce a high-quality 76-key arranger, but why should they? They've cornered the 61-key arranger market, and in most of the musicical instruments areas. I wish that everyone that bitched and griped that Yamaha didn't make a keyboard the way that person wanted it made would just purchase another brand. Buy that tank of a Roland, Gem, Korg, or whatever. Oh! What was that? It doesn't sound as good as the Yamaha? Then why in hell would you buy it, or any other keyboard that doesn't sound the way you want. Oh! I almost forgot--it has 76 keys and that makes you a pro performer, especially if the keyboard is black and you need a fork-lift to get it our of your van.

Lots of luck,

Gary



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Travlin' Easy
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PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

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#241734 - 09/04/08 06:23 AM Re: What is Yamaha saying to us with a 61key T3 vs a 76 key one?
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4643
Loc: West Virginia
The way I look at the weight issue is this... Fine..., some of you guys are at that point in your life where these keyboards are too heavy for you. However, people who choose to gig with the 76er G-70 and PA line sure to get a lot of sh*%& about giggin with a keyboard at that weight.

Just because some of you may not be be in the physical condition to pick up a heavy duty well built keyboard.., don't shi*% on those who still have the back strength to gig with them. If you're at that point in your life where a 25lb keyboard is your limit.., that's fine.., I say keep giggin until your fingers fall off, but don't snub those (some here who are even in their seasoned years) who can still gig with these things... The Korg weighs what.., 39-40lbs, and the G-70 is like 45lbs. A case with wheels is a very logical choice..., that clearly will take much of the work out of it..., now if you can't pick one of these keyboards up from your case to the stand.., then that's fine, but again people need to stop sh*%ing on those who can.

Sorry if I offend anyone, but that's just my take on it. Even an old fart like Fran can handle daily giggin with the G-70




[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 09-04-2008).]
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

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#241735 - 09/04/08 06:38 AM Re: What is Yamaha saying to us with a 61key T3 vs a 76 key one?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by travlin'easy:
I'm confident that Yamaha can design and produce a high-quality 76-key arranger, but why should they? They've cornered the 61-key arranger market, and in most of the musicical instruments areas. I wish that everyone that bitched and griped that Yamaha didn't make a keyboard the way that person wanted it made would just purchase another brand. Buy that tank of a Roland, Gem, Korg, or whatever. Oh! What was that? It doesn't sound as good as the Yamaha? Then why in hell would you buy it, or any other keyboard that doesn't sound the way you want. Oh! I almost forgot--it has 76 keys and that makes you a pro performer, especially if the keyboard is black and you need a fork-lift to get it our of your van.


Ditto. Well said, Gary.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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