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#234038 - 05/09/08 03:57 AM Arrangers and knobs......
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 6367


I love to adjust my sounds real time whil playing modern style with knobs. Every synth has atleast a few of them...Arranger keys have none. I am looking for a device just like the phat.boy (that is no longer avilable) that lets me send these parameters over midi....

Does anyone have a solution for this?

(it would also be great if it looked less flashy then that phat.boy)

Orriginally i had the idea of stacking this with a Pa2X (which can be set up to use such a device) but since i decided not to go the Korg road because of lacking support for 3rd party styles, it makes me wonder if it would also be possible to use it with Wersi and the other top knotch arrangers...
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#234039 - 05/09/08 03:10 PM Re: Arrangers and knobs......
abacus Offline
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Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4739
Loc: English Riviera, UK
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#234040 - 05/10/08 06:32 PM Re: Arrangers and knobs......
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2144
Loc: Columbia City, IN USA
Bachus,
Yes, I use a Novation SL zero. It is a fantastic MIDI controller without a keyboard. Very programmable...Knobs, Sliders, switches, templates. two MIDI ports, USB over MIDI.

Lee
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#234041 - 05/11/08 02:07 AM Re: Arrangers and knobs......
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 6367
That just looks perfect....

How is the accompanying software?
How is the build quallity?


But i guess you'll need a PC to controll it properly, I was looking for something to hook up to a Pa2X directly...
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#234042 - 05/11/08 07:40 AM Re: Arrangers and knobs......
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2144
Loc: Columbia City, IN USA
Bachus,
No you don't need a PC, just MIDI it up to the instrument. You can setup your own custom templates with all the controlers programmed. Build is superb. It's $299.

Check to be sure the PA (or which ever one) will accept te various MIDI CC's.

Lee
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#234043 - 05/11/08 11:32 AM Re: Arrangers and knobs......
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 6367
I know the PA does..

Just don't know if the PA will be my next key of choice... Actually still saving for the Wersi, but the money is burning in my pockets...
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#234044 - 05/11/08 04:32 PM Re: Arrangers and knobs......
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2144
Loc: Columbia City, IN USA
Bachus,
I'm not sure which I will keep at this point. T2 or PA2. I wish I knew more about the upcomming T3! Yep, I just looked at the MIDI info on the PA, your right it will here that stuff you want. Don't know about the T2.

I looked hard at Wersi a couple years ago. I just can't bring myself to buy from those guys in Germany that don't help their customers at all or in a timely manner.
The guys here in the US that have them depend on Cris Conti at Wersi US, and he is a good guy and helpful, but they worry if he goes away some day what will the do. That's an issue!

From what I have heard nothing has changed.
Is that correct?

Lee
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#234045 - 05/11/08 05:09 PM Re: Arrangers and knobs......
to the genesys Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 1155
Have you had a look at the Lionstrack mediastation?
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#234046 - 05/11/08 11:36 PM Re: Arrangers and knobs......
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 6367
Hello Iceeboy

From what i know, Wersi Austria and the Wersi dealers here in the Netherlands have great service....

But since Wersi is a small company a few bad apples in your employment ranks, could spoila lot for them...

What worries me most is wersi's financiall state... It hasn't been that good in the past and could very well be a reason for their sometimes lacking service too

Quote:
Originally posted by to the genesys:
Have you had a look at the Lionstrack mediastation?


Both the Lionstracks and the Wersi's don't have any knobs... Next to that the Lionstracs is not half way near a finished system...Their new arranger named Qranger is only in early development according to the Linux developer site. And their current arranger lacks any good styles. Now if it would be possible to run live-styler under wine on the MS...

I would go for a softsynth setup, with 76 or 88 key Masterkeyboard, a Novation SL zero, live styler and a 19" touchscreen way before choosing lionstracs...

Maybe even creating something like the Meko myselves...can't be that hard when i can find someone thats willing to help me with the casing... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRrhHgmyjLE&NR=1

[This message has been edited by Bachus (edited 05-12-2008).]

[This message has been edited by Bachus (edited 05-12-2008).]
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#234047 - 05/12/08 12:01 AM Re: Arrangers and knobs......
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4739
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Quote:
Originally posted by leeboy:
Bachus,
I'm not sure which I will keep at this point. T2 or PA2. I wish I knew more about the upcomming T3! Yep, I just looked at the MIDI info on the PA, your right it will here that stuff you want. Don't know about the T2.

I looked hard at Wersi a couple years ago. I just can't bring myself to buy from those guys in Germany that don't help their customers at all or in a timely manner.
The guys here in the US that have them depend on Cris Conti at Wersi US, and he is a good guy and helpful, but they worry if he goes away some day what will the do. That's an issue!

From what I have heard nothing has changed.
Is that correct?

Lee

http://wersiclub.blogspot.com/2008/03/windows-driver-problem-solved.html
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#234048 - 05/12/08 05:12 PM Re: Arrangers and knobs......
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2144
Loc: Columbia City, IN USA
I was interesed in a DUO deluxe at one time.

Why are the Wersi owners here in US worried that if Chris Conti (Wersi US) goes away, they will be in trouble?

I they get good help via e-mail from Wersr Germany... why not go there for support instead of Chris?

For that kind of $$$ and being a small Company they should be all over customer satisfacton?

That's why I asked if it had changed... because during the last few years I have monitored the Wersi formum and heard lots of complaints. Waiting forever for any parts/upgrades, no response from e-mails etc? Some, including myself wander if they come to work 5 days a week?

I haven't talked to Chris at Wersi US for a while, so I don't know the current state of his Co. But I know they don't sell many and they downgraded their facility not too long ago.

I do know some folks have caused their own issues by not knowing what they are doing with the system. With such a complex setup, you need expert timely advice.

Maybe if I was in Germany (or close to it) I would see it differently?

Lee
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#234049 - 05/12/08 09:56 PM Re: Arrangers and knobs......
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 6367
The thing with vendor dependent forums is that people only visit them when they have a problem.... This makes it allways look far worse then it actually is..

Also with the Wersi being a software based instrument never run the latest software version if not necessary at all.....so when they do major updates just wayt a few months, sson they might go from 7.1 to 7.2 versions ... I wouldn't do such an update without having decent feedback from early addaptors.

Next to that Many people upgrade their hardware themselves....oh so many problems come from this.... ESD anyone?

Baing based on windows and software most people start exploring and toying with it... and do things they should not do as its not good for stabillity...

---------------------------

The problem with people wayting on Wersi parts i never got, because the people i know from the internet that have a wersi have never needed to wayt long if wersi had the parts in stock and they decided to get a new part..
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#234050 - 05/13/08 09:41 AM Re: Arrangers and knobs......
jimlaing Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/02
Posts: 483
Loc: Raleigh, NC
I use a Peavey PC-1600x device, has 16 sliders and 16 buttons. I have used it on Technics arrangers mostly, may soon adapt it to work on my S900 or (someday) a new Tyros 3 ...

It's a simple, yet flexible and programmable, box. I love having real-time control, smoothly, over various volumes, effects depth, filters, brightness, etc.

Jim
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#234051 - 05/13/08 10:05 AM Re: Arrangers and knobs......
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 38062
Loc: NJ
Isn't it a shame that manufacturers dont put enough sliders & knobs on arranger kbs & listen to the people who play these things without have to buy & hook up exterior devices to accomplish what we want?

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#234052 - 05/13/08 11:29 AM Re: Arrangers and knobs......
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4739
Loc: English Riviera, UK
There are a number of manufactures that still fit sliders and buttons etc, so its not all despair.
From the 3rd party info on Tyros 3 so far, it looks like they have also reintroduced sliders. (I hope they are motorised like they were on the FX range of Electones/Organs)

Bill
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#234053 - 05/13/08 11:56 AM Re: Arrangers and knobs......
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 6367
Quote:
Originally posted by abacus:
There are a number of manufactures that still fit sliders and buttons etc, so its not all despair.
From the 3rd party info on Tyros 3 so far, it looks like they have also reintroduced sliders. (I hope they are motorised like they were on the FX range of Electones/Organs)

Bill


Yes, motorised sliders are a great addition to any keyboard
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#234054 - 05/14/08 09:07 PM Re: Arrangers and knobs......
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2144
Loc: Columbia City, IN USA
Since I have no experience with motorized sliders... ( I have seen them on the new CME MIDI boards) can someone explain why they are great and how one might use them in a practical sense. During performance!

Thanks,
Lee
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#234055 - 05/14/08 09:50 PM Re: Arrangers and knobs......
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 6367
Whne i switch performaces, non motorised faders stay in the position of the old performance. so the seccond i touch them they either make a hug e jump to the new vallue or they require me to move them mannually to the vallue set in the performance before they start sending vallues..

Immagine i have a performance set where i use the sliders as the vollume from my acc tracks, then i switch to the next performance where i have set up a nice B3 sound that i can controll over the sliders... the initiall vallue of that B3 sound has 9 vallues set for all drawbars. But the sliders are still in the position of the previous performance totally out of tune with the drawbar sound i am now playing.

Same goes when controlling things like vco, delay and attack over those sliders...
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#234056 - 05/14/08 10:21 PM Re: Arrangers and knobs......
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Any non-motorized faders will give you the same problems, but there is a decent workaround...

Just before I make a registration change, I yank ALL the faders down to zero. Then I hit the registration button. At least on Roland's, the values on the faders don't change until you pass THROUGH the preset value, so at least you don't get a 'jump' in values. And I don't have to guess whether the fader is above or below the programmed value... I KNOW it is below!

It's not perfect, but what is? And before everyone starts jumping on the 'why don't we have motorized faders?' bandwagon, firstly you have to realize that a good, robust set of motorized faders is going to add mucho dollares to the cost of the unit, be quite bulky (there are VERY few small motorized faders out there) and add a whole degree of new problems that may occur. Not to mention noise... You HAVE heard the noise that inexpensive motorized faders make, haven't you?

I think the new Korg's have the answer, at least for the Hammond drawbars... Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you change a draw-bar's position simply by dragging on the touch screen graphic? If so, extend that basic idea to ALL fader operations, and you never have to worry about jumps again...

Touch screens get larger and less expensive every year. I see this, rather than delicate motorized faders as the future for fader control...

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#234057 - 05/16/08 05:52 AM Re: Arrangers and knobs......
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2144
Loc: Columbia City, IN USA
Bachus,
OK, I see where you are comming from... Very interesting as one of the requests I sent to Korg for improvement on PA2 was to implement PICKUP MODE instead of JUMP MODE on the sliders!

Of course in pickup mode the value does not change until you get the slider to that current value.

Should have been there in the first place... you wander who tests this stuff out?

Now. I wander if the new Yamaha T3 will be a problem with it's sliders? A question for our friend Ian????

Thanks,
Lee
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#234058 - 05/17/08 12:46 AM Re: Arrangers and knobs......
LIONSTRACS Offline
Member

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 664
Loc: Italy
I tough that this PICKUP MODE was one basic standard feature included in the all professional keyboards, we have this on MS from 4 years.
On MS is working on this way:
The black slider image is on the relative software data value.
The Green ghost pointer is on the relative Hardware slider position.
the REED ghost pointer mean that the relative Hardware slider is Linked at the same value of the slider data software.

So..the hardware slider does not change the software data slider until you get the hardware slider to the same position and then will automatically Link.

here a picture, maybe you can understand better:

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#234059 - 05/17/08 12:20 PM Re: Arrangers and knobs......
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2144
Loc: Columbia City, IN USA
LIONSTRACS,
Great! Yes this is the way it should work... All the PRO 'Workstations'/'Synth's' I have used work this way... Arrangers... not so much!

Don't know how any Mfg. could miss this in testing and have only JUMP MODE?

Makes you wander who does the testing?

Lee
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#234060 - 05/17/08 02:34 PM Re: Arrangers and knobs......
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 6367
Still got me wondering why all the top arrangers including Mediastation don't have any knobs at all..

Only Roland has them and they .......

Any serious professionall top arranger should have atleast 8 or 9 sliders and atleast 4 to 8 knobs..

Preferably more..
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