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#226284 - 02/07/08 06:57 AM Re: My take on the PA800
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
When you say your own Ian ...are these styles COMPLETLY created from scratch...or just modified ones? If so Id like to hear about the process in making them.

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#226285 - 02/07/08 07:07 AM Re: My take on the PA800
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
When you say your own Ian ...are these styles COMPLETLY created from scratch...or just modified ones? If so Id like to hear about the process in making them.



Well, they are mine to some degree, Donny, I make them using STYLE ASSEMBLY...I take parts from donor styles and make a new one.

I also convert the Intros into extra variations and even for fill/break/stops.

Some of my styles have as many as seven variations...and most, if not all of my styles are "laid back" and designed for my restaurant gigs.

It's nice to be able to make a keyboard into what you want, rather than wish for it to be that way.

Zuki will have that PA-800 just the way he likes it to be in no time.

Ian
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#226286 - 02/07/08 12:39 PM Re: My take on the PA800
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14211
Loc: NW Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by rikkisbears:
The default mode syncs to the style immediately & starts playing depending on where you are in the bar.ie if you hit it on the second beat of the bar, the fill starts on the second beat of the fills' bar instead of the first beat.
2nd mode, it starts playing immediately also, but from the beginning (ie 1st beat of of the fills bar.
3rd mode it starts playing at the beggining of the next bar , so doesn't matter when you trigger it.
The first 2 modes you just have to be a bit more acurate when you press the fill.


Well, the first mode is pretty much the de facto standard on all arrangers (at least, those I've played)... but with one HUGE exception. There is absolutely no need for them to be hit accurately on any particular beat. Even off-timing doesn't make a glitch in the timing, but just the usual one you'll get from ANY late chord entry. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't this how ALL arrangers (apart from Korg) work?

Of the other two choices, #2 seems absurd. No matter when you hit it, timing accurate or not, it goes immediately into the fill, regardless of where you are in the bar when you hit it! I anticipate a lot of sprained ankles from the dancers! Honestly, does ANYONE want to trigger a fill this way (other than perhaps greek music if you can't be bothered to program the style with the right time signature in the first place!)? The slightest timing mistake with this option would be musically disastrous...

And option #3... You have to cue your fills up in advance. PLEASE...! If I wanted a WS loopstation, I'd get a MotifXS.

No, IMO Korg have designed these options based on geek rules, not musical rules. Option #2 particularly shows their lack of common musical sense. As to being able to program, per registration, how the styles behave (which variation they go to... Just about every other arranger has moved on to a system where you select the VARIATION you want to go to, and the smoothest fill choice is automatically chosen for you. Simple, one button push. Back to PLAYING. But this only works if there are sufficient fills to make most of the transitions (remember, 16 possible transitions for a 4 Variation arranger). TWO IS NOT ENOUGH.

And no amount of dubiously useful 'options' can overcome this fatal handicap. All these are, especially the 'direction' controls, are a way to mitigate the problem in the first place! Rather than FIX IT...

The thought of a Fill button, that you have to be careful exactly when you can hit it, destroys the whole concept of an 'arranger', IMO.

Things you take for granted on an arranger (IMO):

1) Variations that musically progress from simple to complex
2) Fills that smoothly and musically allow you to transition between one VAR and any other
3) A simple control method, that triggers the fill and the next VAR without extreme accuracy of timing (or multiple button pressing)

All the rest is fluff compared to these. They are the Holy Trinity of arranger play. Korg have chosen to ignore this. Despite many cutting-edge features in other areas, they have chosen to disregard the BASIC elements of an arranger. And it's users have to scramble around with 'workarounds' and troubling need for extreme accuracy hitting this most oft used button (what do you hit MORE than the Fill button?), while everybody else doesn't even have to THINK about it...

Korg have built an amazing arranger, but with a crack in the foundation. Until this is fixed, it doesn't matter how high the building goes. At any time, one badly timed Fill request can bring it down on your head. My G70 (and most other arrangers) may have flaws in the upper stories, but at least the foundation is strong...
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#226287 - 02/07/08 12:54 PM Re: My take on the PA800
adimatis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1159
Loc: Oradea, RO
have to admit, i love how E60 does fills. korg is not there yet at all.
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Yamaha S770, Studio One 3, EMU 0404USB, ESI, ATH, Dell. And others.

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#226288 - 02/07/08 12:58 PM Re: My take on the PA800
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Thank you Paula,
best wishes
rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Princess:
[B
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best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#226289 - 02/07/08 01:07 PM Re: My take on the PA800
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Donny,
Ian's Style Assembly is basically the same as the copy function in the Korg.
Something along the lines we were discussing a while back of maybe replacing intro's in a style with intro's from another source. Except Ian's going a step further and replacing all sorts of parts.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dnj:
[B]
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best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#226290 - 02/07/08 01:38 PM Re: My take on the PA800
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Thanx Rikki.....I understand now.....I was thinking they were totally created from scratch...recording all parts, intro/endings/fills, etc .....

D.

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#226291 - 02/07/08 06:36 PM Re: My take on the PA800
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Whoops, I'm starting to repeat myself.

Must be catching.

best wishes
Rikki

[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 02-07-2008).]
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#226292 - 02/07/08 07:08 PM Re: My take on the PA800
PraiseTheLord Offline
Member

Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 782
Loc: N Fort Myers, FL, USA
Riiki

Thanks for pointing out the point about the flashing single touch control. I'm going to try that. I have been disappointed that I have to press a fill and an STS whereas on the Yamaha I'd just change registration.

As I'm working on songs for the songbook, I'm learning more and more, but I slowly figured out that anything to do with the syle is a resource that has to be written for the song, and then the voicing can be changed by the STS. Somehow I had not seen it written that way in the manual. I guess we all come to figure these things out and understand them in different ways.

Graham
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Graham, Korg Pa1000, Korg G1 Air, Countryman E6, Roland BA330, 2 x Roland CM-30, , Mackie SRM150

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#226293 - 02/07/08 08:31 PM Re: My take on the PA800
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Spalding,
oh good, I'm glad I did actually make some sense. I sometimes waffle on a bit.

I was just wondering, with the DVD's do they actually go into detailed style creation functions.
Still having a tiny bit of trouble figuring out the transposition tables.
The paralell i series transposition, is it for maj7 chords ? and can I have additional notes
ie I have some piano tracks from my BIAB software, problem is when I type in a CMaj7 chord & convert the BIAB track to midifile format, I end up with some D notes in the sequence, virtually making it a Cmaj7 9th. No such chord setting exists.

Does a korg allow for these additional notes?

The manual doesn't go into a great deal of detail, do the DVD's??
I suppose my other option is to go thru some of the styles in event list edit, & see if I can find some tracks that may be similar & get my settings from them.

best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Spalding 4:
[B]rikkisbears you beat me the post ! That was a very succinct explanation of how the fills can be triggered on the Korg arranger keyboards but unless users dig in to the instrument they will not know this.
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best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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