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#226264 - 02/05/08 09:05 PM My take on the PA800
zuki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 4718
1. Sounds: A
2. Styles: B-
3. OS: C
4. Live play: C-

I love all the sounds. The piano is great, as with saxes, organs, basic sounds. The overall power is a big plus and there is some mind blowing stuff.

I have mixed emotions about the styles. I do like the unplugged, rock, dance, some country and a few big band. This board lacks the elegant, SIMPLE stuff - a fear I had. I love the 900 strings for ballads.

Styles: The variations seem OK and graduate nicely, but the fills in many styles are just plain awful - major glitches. I'd be afraid to hit them in live play. With that said, there are some awesome work-a-rounds, if you develop a good memory on what to push on time (I don't worry about that with my 900).

I'm still working on other things and I know the harmonizer will be a huge plus. Maybe that'll push it over the edge, but I have a long way to go in order to fall in love.

zuki
_________________________
Live: Korg PA4X/EV Everse 8s/Senn 935/K&M stand

Studio: Korg PA4X/Yamaha DGX670/Boss BR900CD/Tascam DP24SD/MTM Iloud/Sony C80/AGK 214/K&M stand

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#226265 - 02/05/08 10:00 PM Re: My take on the PA800
jamman Offline
Member

Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 666
Loc: City of Angels in the golden s...

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#226266 - 02/05/08 11:38 PM Re: My take on the PA800
adimatis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1159
Loc: Oradea, RO
zuki,

can you please compare these things for me?


s900/pa800

1. keyfeel
2. keys size
3. ease in OS navigation

thanks.
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#226267 - 02/06/08 06:22 AM Re: My take on the PA800
zuki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 4718
Ad -

The keys are much nicer than the 900. They feel like they will not loosen up over the long haul (much improved over the PA50 I had).

They are 5 1/2" long.

The OS is different for me. I think it is easy enough for live play.The touch screen is nice to work with. The button layouts are good. I'm just not convince that it will allow me to play my medleys that are so fluid on the 900.

I like a lot of things about it and I'm not giving up yet.

zuki
_________________________
Live: Korg PA4X/EV Everse 8s/Senn 935/K&M stand

Studio: Korg PA4X/Yamaha DGX670/Boss BR900CD/Tascam DP24SD/MTM Iloud/Sony C80/AGK 214/K&M stand

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#226268 - 02/06/08 09:09 AM Re: My take on the PA800
spalding Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/04
Posts: 582
Loc: Birmingham
Zuki. Dont get caught up in buying instruments for the sake of it. You will end up chasing your own tail. You cannot possibly even be considering giving up on a new arranger until you have had it for at least a couple of months. Its your money and i am not telling you how to spend it but this swapping and changing of instruments every couple of weeks is not going to help you fully appreciate what can be done with these instruments.

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#226269 - 02/06/08 03:26 PM Re: My take on the PA800
zuki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 4718
Hello Spalding,

I agree with you. I was a tad disappointed to know that I could NEVER replace the 900 live with the 800. They are just miles apart, each with their pluses. So, I decided to leave the 900 in the car and work out a bunch of tunes on the 800 that will sound much better. I have enough energy that I plan to lug both around for a while and offer my audience a really neat variety of music. It's for them, not for me, so I can't be lazy now that I got myself into this pickle With that said, I'm having fun with BOTH boards - really, the best of two worlds. I should be happy.

zuki
_________________________
Live: Korg PA4X/EV Everse 8s/Senn 935/K&M stand

Studio: Korg PA4X/Yamaha DGX670/Boss BR900CD/Tascam DP24SD/MTM Iloud/Sony C80/AGK 214/K&M stand

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#226270 - 02/06/08 06:09 PM Re: My take on the PA800
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Zuki,
what are the major glitches with the fills?

ie you just don't think they match, or is it because when you hit them, they start
at an odd spot & appear to glitch??
Also noticed when that happens sometimes the fill seems to sound a bit loud. Can be remidied easy enough, unless it's something else you're refferring to..

Are you actually missing a lot of your psr simpler styles??

I actually ended up cutting one of the styles down from the original 8 or 16 bars down to 4.
The variations worked perfectly for the first 4 bars ( I think it was the Bequine style), by the time it got to the 8th bar it no longer suited, so I just chopped off the last few bars.

Eventually I went a bit overboard & replaced the guitar , bass, & Intro/Ending 1
I just can't leave well enough alone haahaa.

Don't forget if you're looking for additional [url=styleshttp://www.createsongstyles.com/forum/index.php?board=5.0][url=styleshttp://www.createsongstyles.com/forum/index.php?board=5.0][url=styleshttp://www.createsongstyles.com/forum/index.php?board=5.0]styleshttp://www.createsongstyles.com/forum/index.php?board=5.0[/url][/url][/url]

and also the korg site.

best wishes
rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by zuki:
[B]

[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 02-06-2008).]
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best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#226271 - 02/06/08 08:31 PM Re: My take on the PA800
zuki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 4718
Hi Rikki,

Oh, I just found a few that are not in sync with the timing. But I'm not concerned with a few.

I played the board for many hours tonight (after 2 900 gigs) and I was EXTREMELY pleased again. I started using the songbook and learning how to create my own songs from existing styles.

This thing has me oohing and ahhing, like no other board has done before. The more I play it, the more I like it and that's a good thing

I'm a very happy camper at this point and can't wait to take it live.

Holy smokes, I haven't even dug into the harmonizer yet - fun times ahead.....

Thanks for your help as usual.

zuki
_________________________
Live: Korg PA4X/EV Everse 8s/Senn 935/K&M stand

Studio: Korg PA4X/Yamaha DGX670/Boss BR900CD/Tascam DP24SD/MTM Iloud/Sony C80/AGK 214/K&M stand

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#226272 - 02/06/08 08:53 PM Re: My take on the PA800
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Zuki,
not sure if your earlier PA had this function, but just in case
it's a simple fix.
For some bizzare reason , the default Korg setting for fills & breaks is "immediate."
In short, the fill sometimes starts in the middle of the bar, making it glitch.
If you want to get rid of it & have the fill start at the beginning of the next bar, nice & smooth, you'll have to go into style edit.
Pick th style,
press the record button,
Edit Existing style
Press Tab "Record 2 Cue"
Near the middle you'll see
Cue Mode for Fill 1, choose
"next measure, first measure"
then Write the style..
Simple as.
You may already be aware of this function, i'm finding it handy as I don't always hit fills at the right time.
Haven't been game to overwrite the existing yet, but I'll have to sooner or later or I'll run out of user style space haa haa

Nice to hear you're starting to enjoy your PA800 more. It really is an awesome keyboard.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by zuki:
[B]Hi Rikki,
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best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#226273 - 02/06/08 09:11 PM Re: My take on the PA800
zuki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 4718
Thanks Rikki,

I'll give it a try. Yes, really enjoying the board

Anxious to put it through my EON2.

zuki
_________________________
Live: Korg PA4X/EV Everse 8s/Senn 935/K&M stand

Studio: Korg PA4X/Yamaha DGX670/Boss BR900CD/Tascam DP24SD/MTM Iloud/Sony C80/AGK 214/K&M stand

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#226274 - 02/06/08 09:37 PM Re: My take on the PA800
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14207
Loc: NW Florida
Here's what confuses me...

No arranger I have EVER played has ever had a problem with WHEN I hit the fill button. In fact, the whole POINT of a Fill button is to be able to trigger it whenever you want... Need a full, bar long transition, hit it on the 'one'. Need a short pickup? Hit it on the 'three'. Need something in the middle? You get the point.

I am amazed that this doesn't drive you CRAZY, having to remember, in the heat of battle, that a particular fill, for a particular style, MUST be hit accurately on a particular beat. This is not the essence of arranger usage, IMO. It's bad enough I have to remember to hit an Ending in the bar BEFORE I need it (wish they would just jump in like Fills), but this loss of spontaneity for such an important feature you use on every song you play would drive me insane.

This, and the only two or three fills per style are deal-breakers for me. I see no point in going back to a system that has been superseded on most other arrangers for ten years or more...

Sad, as there is much to like about the new Korg's, but the lack of any improvement on this issue after all their competition has left them in the dust makes me wonder where their head is. Dual MP3 players, no problem. Smooth fills, not so... I don't want a karaoke machine... I want an ARRANGER.
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#226275 - 02/06/08 10:48 PM Re: My take on the PA800
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Diki,
the korg actually has 3 modes for triggering
it's fills.
The default mode syncs to the style immediately & starts playing depending on where you are in the bar.ie if you hit it on the second beat of the bar, the fill starts on the second beat of the fills' bar instead of the first beat.
2nd mode, it starts playing immediately also, but from the beginning (ie 1st beat of of the fills bar.
3rd mode it starts playing at the beggining of the next bar , so doesn't matter when you trigger it.
The first 2 modes you just have to be a bit more acurate when you press the fill.

The first 2 modes sound a bit more along the lines of what you're reffering to as being the norm.

The setting is also saved for that particular style, so you can set up the styles however you want, including the fourteen different types of fill settings I mentioned in one of the other posts.

Like if I decide to have fill 1 trigger variation 1 & 2, & fill2 trigger variation 3& 4 , I save the setting for that style. The next style I may want fill 1 to trigger vari 3 & 4 & fill2 to trigger var 1&2, again I just save the setting for that style..
Very versatile.
best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Diki:
[B]

[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 02-06-2008).]

[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 02-06-2008).]
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#226276 - 02/06/08 10:54 PM Re: My take on the PA800
adimatis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1159
Loc: Oradea, RO
spot on, diki! ^^^
i am right there at this moment, this two things i remeber from my past experience with korg, as probably only dark side of it.
;(

on the other hand, rikki, having this many many settings (not only for fills, but generally speaking) that lacks in roland, makes me think about korg again and again.

[This message has been edited by adimatis (edited 02-06-2008).]
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#226277 - 02/07/08 12:49 AM Re: My take on the PA800
Spalding 4 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/07/07
Posts: 96
Loc: UK
rikkisbears you beat me the post ! That was a very succinct explanation of how the fills can be triggered on the Korg arranger keyboards but unless users dig in to the instrument they will not know this.

Zuki , tne more you actually get into the instrument the more you are going to love it. I have no idea why you feel the pa would NEVER REPLACE your Yammy s900 in live play. The PA series is a live players dream instrument if you get to grips with the OS. I am not pluggin the Korg Arranger Secrects DVD for any other reason than the fact that i think it would help you immensely. We created the DVD's specifically to help users understand the dynamite they had at their fingertips and probably were unaware of it !

Korg have simply left the market to find out for themselves. This instruments capabilities should never have been left a "secret" .

PS the Korg Arranger Secrets project has been set up on a non profit basis.Any monies we make over and above our costs are being used to discount the costs of future Tutorial DVD's. We are planning a 4th to add to the current set of 3.

Didnt mean to hijack your thread mate.

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#226278 - 02/07/08 01:24 AM Re: My take on the PA800
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Adimatis,
after 3 months or more, I'm still discovering settings & stuff this keyboard has & can do.
If somethings not working quite how I'd hoped, there's usually a solution or setting I've missed somewhere.
For instance I luved the OTS settings on my psr1500, the way the melody sounds change with each variation.
The Korg has the equivalent called STS's only thing was, mine weren't changing with the variations.Took me a while to realize the Single Touch setting button had to be flashing for the STS's to change with the variations.

Amittedly you're still stuck with 2 fills,+ break, but being able to direct which variation they're going to affect makes a big difference. With off they do a self fill, you can send them to variation 1 or 2 or 3 or 4, they can step up or down increments, you can set one up to do vari1 & 2 or 1 &3 or 2 & 3 any combination & they & it the fill alternates between the 2 chosen variations.
The beaut part is it's not a global setting that affects all the styles , but a performance setting that affects a single style.

Personally there's a couple of reasons I wouldn't have bought a Roland again.
No Pads, they're brilliant the way they work in the PA800, the sync options are better than in my psr1500. It has one additional one.
I beleive the pads on earlier Korgs were fairly ordinary?? Someone told me they improved on the PA1X??
And Roland as far as I'm aware still doesn't have a percussion track?? For me the fact that I like to be able to convert styles, would make it a bit more difficult because all the other major keyboards as far as I'm aware use percussion & drum tracks. Trying to cram them into one track would make it even more difficult to edit drum velocities & non gm standard drum notes.

Obviously Korgs don't suit everyone, but if you're planning on changing keyboards, might be worth a look. Download the main manual first & have a look thru. There is an extended manual on Sound editing & the Audio Loop Groove functions for drum tracks & pads.

best wishes
Rikki.

Quote:
Originally posted by adimatis:
spot on, diki! ^^^
i am right there at this moment, this two things i remeber from my past experience with korg, as probably only dark side of it.
;(

on the other hand, rikki, having this many many settings (not only for fills, but generally speaking) that lacks in roland, makes me think about korg again and again.

[This message has been edited by adimatis (edited 02-06-2008).]
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#226279 - 02/07/08 02:08 AM Re: My take on the PA800
adimatis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1159
Loc: Oradea, RO
thanks!
the pa800 manual is open right now, i read about things there...
yes, i would like to try the new pa, it'll be only pa500, and i'm waiting for the manual to be posted on korgpa.com.

i'll know in about one month time if i will change keyboards or not this spring!
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#226280 - 02/07/08 05:40 AM Re: My take on the PA800
Princess Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/07
Posts: 100
Loc: Michigan
hi,pa800, this is also a nice feature,on the screen select velocity control,by defalt it is off,choose fill 1 or 2,per need exit, if you like save it, just punch the chord on the left hand a little harder, it will automatically trigger a fill in,PAULA/// I like the pa800 more every day
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#226281 - 02/07/08 05:57 AM Re: My take on the PA800
zuki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 4718
Diki,

The couple fills on a few styles are not detrimental enough to keep me away from the marvels of the 800 (and if they can be easily fixed, so what?). But 99% is fine and very cool. BTW, there are a couple glitches in the 900. I have to mute certain instruments in glitchy styles to use them. Also, in the past, my VA and E series had serious fill glitches, which drove me crazy too.

The features this board has are starting to surface from members.

Believe me, this is inspiring to play, if you're a good player. I know you'd love it I couldn't wait to get up this morning to keep going at my list in order to eventually take it live.

I thought I'd never be able to do my G Miller medley, but in the songbook it has terrific settings for In The Mood and others.

NOTHING is perfect But this is keeping me up late at night and awake early in the morning.

zuki
_________________________
Live: Korg PA4X/EV Everse 8s/Senn 935/K&M stand

Studio: Korg PA4X/Yamaha DGX670/Boss BR900CD/Tascam DP24SD/MTM Iloud/Sony C80/AGK 214/K&M stand

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#226282 - 02/07/08 06:14 AM Re: My take on the PA800
Stephenm52 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 5126
Loc: USA
Quote:
Originally posted by zuki:
Diki,
Believe me, this is inspiring to play, if you're a good player. I know you'd love it I couldn't wait to get up this morning to keep going at my list in order to eventually take it live.

NOTHING is perfect But this is keeping me up late at night and awake early in the morning.

zuki




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#226283 - 02/07/08 06:55 AM Re: My take on the PA800
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by zuki:

The couple fills on a few styles are not detrimental enough to keep me away from the marvels of the 800 (and if they can be easily fixed, so what?). But 99% is fine and very cool. BTW, there are a couple glitches in the 900. I have to mute certain instruments in glitchy styles to use them. Also, in the past, my VA and E series had serious fill glitches, which drove me crazy too.



I'm sure you'll find your way around the PA-800 and make it your own...that's where all the fun is...I don't use any factory styles on the S900, but they were a great basis for my own.

Fills are easy to fix...you'll soon be using it "live".

Ian
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#226284 - 02/07/08 06:57 AM Re: My take on the PA800
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
When you say your own Ian ...are these styles COMPLETLY created from scratch...or just modified ones? If so Id like to hear about the process in making them.

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#226285 - 02/07/08 07:07 AM Re: My take on the PA800
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
When you say your own Ian ...are these styles COMPLETLY created from scratch...or just modified ones? If so Id like to hear about the process in making them.



Well, they are mine to some degree, Donny, I make them using STYLE ASSEMBLY...I take parts from donor styles and make a new one.

I also convert the Intros into extra variations and even for fill/break/stops.

Some of my styles have as many as seven variations...and most, if not all of my styles are "laid back" and designed for my restaurant gigs.

It's nice to be able to make a keyboard into what you want, rather than wish for it to be that way.

Zuki will have that PA-800 just the way he likes it to be in no time.

Ian
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#226286 - 02/07/08 12:39 PM Re: My take on the PA800
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14207
Loc: NW Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by rikkisbears:
The default mode syncs to the style immediately & starts playing depending on where you are in the bar.ie if you hit it on the second beat of the bar, the fill starts on the second beat of the fills' bar instead of the first beat.
2nd mode, it starts playing immediately also, but from the beginning (ie 1st beat of of the fills bar.
3rd mode it starts playing at the beggining of the next bar , so doesn't matter when you trigger it.
The first 2 modes you just have to be a bit more acurate when you press the fill.


Well, the first mode is pretty much the de facto standard on all arrangers (at least, those I've played)... but with one HUGE exception. There is absolutely no need for them to be hit accurately on any particular beat. Even off-timing doesn't make a glitch in the timing, but just the usual one you'll get from ANY late chord entry. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't this how ALL arrangers (apart from Korg) work?

Of the other two choices, #2 seems absurd. No matter when you hit it, timing accurate or not, it goes immediately into the fill, regardless of where you are in the bar when you hit it! I anticipate a lot of sprained ankles from the dancers! Honestly, does ANYONE want to trigger a fill this way (other than perhaps greek music if you can't be bothered to program the style with the right time signature in the first place!)? The slightest timing mistake with this option would be musically disastrous...

And option #3... You have to cue your fills up in advance. PLEASE...! If I wanted a WS loopstation, I'd get a MotifXS.

No, IMO Korg have designed these options based on geek rules, not musical rules. Option #2 particularly shows their lack of common musical sense. As to being able to program, per registration, how the styles behave (which variation they go to... Just about every other arranger has moved on to a system where you select the VARIATION you want to go to, and the smoothest fill choice is automatically chosen for you. Simple, one button push. Back to PLAYING. But this only works if there are sufficient fills to make most of the transitions (remember, 16 possible transitions for a 4 Variation arranger). TWO IS NOT ENOUGH.

And no amount of dubiously useful 'options' can overcome this fatal handicap. All these are, especially the 'direction' controls, are a way to mitigate the problem in the first place! Rather than FIX IT...

The thought of a Fill button, that you have to be careful exactly when you can hit it, destroys the whole concept of an 'arranger', IMO.

Things you take for granted on an arranger (IMO):

1) Variations that musically progress from simple to complex
2) Fills that smoothly and musically allow you to transition between one VAR and any other
3) A simple control method, that triggers the fill and the next VAR without extreme accuracy of timing (or multiple button pressing)

All the rest is fluff compared to these. They are the Holy Trinity of arranger play. Korg have chosen to ignore this. Despite many cutting-edge features in other areas, they have chosen to disregard the BASIC elements of an arranger. And it's users have to scramble around with 'workarounds' and troubling need for extreme accuracy hitting this most oft used button (what do you hit MORE than the Fill button?), while everybody else doesn't even have to THINK about it...

Korg have built an amazing arranger, but with a crack in the foundation. Until this is fixed, it doesn't matter how high the building goes. At any time, one badly timed Fill request can bring it down on your head. My G70 (and most other arrangers) may have flaws in the upper stories, but at least the foundation is strong...
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#226287 - 02/07/08 12:54 PM Re: My take on the PA800
adimatis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1159
Loc: Oradea, RO
have to admit, i love how E60 does fills. korg is not there yet at all.
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#226288 - 02/07/08 12:58 PM Re: My take on the PA800
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Thank you Paula,
best wishes
rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Princess:
[B
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best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#226289 - 02/07/08 01:07 PM Re: My take on the PA800
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Donny,
Ian's Style Assembly is basically the same as the copy function in the Korg.
Something along the lines we were discussing a while back of maybe replacing intro's in a style with intro's from another source. Except Ian's going a step further and replacing all sorts of parts.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dnj:
[B]
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#226290 - 02/07/08 01:38 PM Re: My take on the PA800
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Thanx Rikki.....I understand now.....I was thinking they were totally created from scratch...recording all parts, intro/endings/fills, etc .....

D.

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#226291 - 02/07/08 06:36 PM Re: My take on the PA800
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Whoops, I'm starting to repeat myself.

Must be catching.

best wishes
Rikki

[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 02-07-2008).]
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#226292 - 02/07/08 07:08 PM Re: My take on the PA800
PraiseTheLord Offline
Member

Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 782
Loc: N Fort Myers, FL, USA
Riiki

Thanks for pointing out the point about the flashing single touch control. I'm going to try that. I have been disappointed that I have to press a fill and an STS whereas on the Yamaha I'd just change registration.

As I'm working on songs for the songbook, I'm learning more and more, but I slowly figured out that anything to do with the syle is a resource that has to be written for the song, and then the voicing can be changed by the STS. Somehow I had not seen it written that way in the manual. I guess we all come to figure these things out and understand them in different ways.

Graham
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Graham, Korg Pa1000, Korg G1 Air, Countryman E6, Roland BA330, 2 x Roland CM-30, , Mackie SRM150

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#226293 - 02/07/08 08:31 PM Re: My take on the PA800
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Spalding,
oh good, I'm glad I did actually make some sense. I sometimes waffle on a bit.

I was just wondering, with the DVD's do they actually go into detailed style creation functions.
Still having a tiny bit of trouble figuring out the transposition tables.
The paralell i series transposition, is it for maj7 chords ? and can I have additional notes
ie I have some piano tracks from my BIAB software, problem is when I type in a CMaj7 chord & convert the BIAB track to midifile format, I end up with some D notes in the sequence, virtually making it a Cmaj7 9th. No such chord setting exists.

Does a korg allow for these additional notes?

The manual doesn't go into a great deal of detail, do the DVD's??
I suppose my other option is to go thru some of the styles in event list edit, & see if I can find some tracks that may be similar & get my settings from them.

best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Spalding 4:
[B]rikkisbears you beat me the post ! That was a very succinct explanation of how the fills can be triggered on the Korg arranger keyboards but unless users dig in to the instrument they will not know this.
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#226294 - 02/07/08 08:59 PM Re: My take on the PA800
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Graham,
works pretty much the same as the OTS in the Yammies. I was really pleased when I discovered that also.

If I alter an STS I actually save it as an STS. Some of the other stuff like assigning the fill to a variation, I save as a current performance setting. Also if I change volumes, & tempo's I save as a current performance setting.
Not 100% sure if it's the correct procedure, but it appears to work for me.


I've been so busy messing round with the style editing functions, I haven't even started a songbook yet. I'm not a performer, so there's no rush for me to get a songbook set up. I'll have to think about it sooner or later.

Maybe we need a post for,
I used to do this on the Yammie, how do I do it on the korg?? haahaa.
For all us new converts.

best wishes
rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by PraiseTheLord:
[B]Riiki
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#226295 - 02/08/08 03:50 AM Re: My take on the PA800
Spalding 4 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/07/07
Posts: 96
Loc: UK
Hi Rikkisbears . Unfortunately we did not have enough time to examine the inticacies of style creation as that would be an entire DVD series all by itself . The current DVD series already includes a little bit on style creation but not the depth that i think you would benefit from. I cant help you with that one but we are in the process of establishing what things should be included on the 4th DVD. If you would like a section on style creation (and there are enough people who want this feature explained) we can hire another demonstrator to look specifically at this. I am prtetty sure that all the manufacturers use a similar format for NTT's and it may well be that this last DVD could have a section relating to the major common style editing functions. I do a bit of style creation myself but it is really trial and error for me.

Pop over to the Korgforum and add your request to the DVD thread . We will see what we can do.

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#226296 - 02/08/08 05:54 AM Re: My take on the PA800
Jerry T Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/23/05
Posts: 1002
Loc: Phila. 'burbs, Pa. USA
Thank you Rikki for all these important little tidbits. Im happy that youre taking the time to investigate and share the little nuances of the Korg and Ketron boards. Now, If only you would to venture into one of the GEM Genesys keyboards with the same relish ...
Ciao,
Jerry

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#226297 - 02/08/08 02:03 PM Re: My take on the PA800
PraiseTheLord Offline
Member

Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 782
Loc: N Fort Myers, FL, USA
Rikki, I like the way the single touch button connects the variations with the STS! It really helps on a piece I am working on for Church on Sunday.

Unfortunately it looks like it's a global setting only and I cannot store it in a songbook entry. Maybe I'll remember it as I get more familiar with the keyboard.

I'll ask the question on the Korg forum.

Graham
_________________________
Graham, Korg Pa1000, Korg G1 Air, Countryman E6, Roland BA330, 2 x Roland CM-30, , Mackie SRM150

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#226298 - 02/08/08 03:23 PM Re: My take on the PA800
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Thank you Spalding,
I thought it might be a difficult one to cover.

I think I have actually worked out how most of the transposition tables work. I think the parallel, i series table will give me exactly what I want in that I can use a maj7th chord track instead of maybe having to do tracks for maj,min,&7th chords for variations & fills.
I have used it when I converted a couple of my psr styles & it worked, but unlike with BIAB styles I didn't end up notes that didn't belong to my maj7 chord.

May just have to keep doing trial & error also. Put the maj7 9th chord thru as a maj7 & see how it affects the transposition.

Maybe if I'm not musical enough to hear if it's off, the members I share with may be kind enough to tell me. haahaa.

I did read something about a 4th DVD, I may just do that.

Thank you.
best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Spalding 4:
[B]
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#226299 - 02/08/08 04:32 PM Re: My take on the PA800
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Graham,
not quite sure I understand.

To have the single touch settings change with the variations, all you need to do is press the the Style Touch Button & make sure it keeps flashing
Or are you then coming up with incorrect melody sounds for your song?

If so, choose sounds for each of the sts's & save
ie

just say you've got your style, sts1, vari1 you change from organ to piano etc etc
you have to write ( save) sts1. Then you do vari 2 sts 2 change your sounds & save to sts 2. etc

If you could elaborate a bit more, as I said I'm not quite sure of what the problem is.

best wishes
Rikki
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#226300 - 02/08/08 04:42 PM Re: My take on the PA800
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Jerry,
I nearly did. Then along came the PA800, and I just luv it.
My other 2 keyboards are paling into insignifigence. haahaa.
best wishes
Rikki

By the way, did you get the Midjay? I had a look thru my old Roland styles to see if I could find the 2 you mentioned to give me a rough idea.. Unfortunately , no, I think I've lost quite a few over the years due to corrupted floppy disks..

Quote:
Originally posted by Jerry T:
Now, If only you would to venture into one of the GEM Genesys keyboards with the same relish ...
Ciao,
Jerry
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#226301 - 02/08/08 04:56 PM Re: My take on the PA800
Stephenm52 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 5126
Loc: USA
Rikki, My understanding of what Graham is explaining ( I have the same problem ) is this:

Songbook remembers all your settings i.e. key changes, intros and other parameters you choose. What it doesn't seem to remember is that when saving your Songbook setting for a particular song style cannot choose and save to Songbook the option of having Single Touch Button staying on or off depending how it was set when you saved to Songbook. As Graham said it seems to be a global setting. As a result you have to manually tap the STS button to turn it on or off the flashing red light, rather than it being remembered by Songbook.



[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 02-08-2008).]

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#226302 - 02/08/08 05:33 PM Re: My take on the PA800
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Id like to chime in here if I may ....
what you have to do If I remember my Pa800 days is lets say you want a Piano to be the default sound that will be ready to play when you choose a song book song.....the songbook always starts with STS #1....it will not if Im correct? be able to choose lets say #3 as the starting STS....so you have to make sure that #1 STS is the sound you want to start the song with or else you gonna have to choose the STS sound once the styles starts, or after the intro.........am I making any sense?

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 02-08-2008).]

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#226303 - 02/08/08 06:29 PM Re: My take on the PA800
Jerry T Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/23/05
Posts: 1002
Loc: Phila. 'burbs, Pa. USA
Rikki,
I did get the Midjay. AJ just helped me activate the channels I needed to use my controller and midi accordions. I've been using the PA-800 for about a year and the current discourse seems to tell me that I have a lot to learn about the PA-800. Next week, I will attempt to edit some of the files I need as well as making registrations for the Midjay. I was hoping that I could use the sequences and edited files that I made in the PA800 and The Genesys XP, and have stored in my PC, via copy and paste. But each manufacturer interprets the so called 'standard' midi signal differently (called proprietary something or another). So, back to the grind. I hope the Midjay OS is a little easier to learn then the Genesys XP OS ... I don't know how Donny does it ...
Ciao,
Jerry

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#226304 - 02/08/08 06:43 PM Re: My take on the PA800
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Quote:
Originally posted by Jerry T:
I don't know how Donny does it ...
Ciao,Jerry


Jerry its like anything else....repetitivness & perseverance
& a Little help from your friends will get you thru it

Good Luck

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#226305 - 02/08/08 07:01 PM Re: My take on the PA800
Frank L. Rosenthal Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/18/00
Posts: 1008
Here I thought I had converted Rikki to the software approach. I must have been suffering from delusions of granduer....sadly I am left with merely the echoes of my mind....it is oh so lonely in there!!!

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#226306 - 02/08/08 07:38 PM Re: My take on the PA800
PraiseTheLord Offline
Member

Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 782
Loc: N Fort Myers, FL, USA
Steve explained my problem well. I have noticed that on some songs I only like 2 of the variations but want 4 variations of sounds, so linking them by pressing Single Touch until it flashes does not help me. In this case I would like the songbook setting to choose Single Touch On.

On Sunday I have a total of 12 songs, some with styles, some just sounds (you guessed it - organ) some where I would like to link the variations and STS settings, some not. So it would be great if Songbook remembered it all for me.

I know, I must be crazy using the Pa2X so soon after receiving it, but it has really pushed me to learn. I am trusting to God's help and experience to take me through the unexpected issues that occur during the service.

Graham
_________________________
Graham, Korg Pa1000, Korg G1 Air, Countryman E6, Roland BA330, 2 x Roland CM-30, , Mackie SRM150

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#226307 - 02/08/08 08:04 PM Re: My take on the PA800
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Jerry,
your midifiles will no doubt need editing. They brought in GM standard many years ago, & it's far from standard, everybody added their own additional sounds & drumkits especially as far as arranger keyboards are concerned.

Dumb question, but can you use mp3's for backing instead of midifiles?
This way the backing could be from the original instrument it was recorded on ie PA800 or Genysis. I've never owned a Midjay, but MAYBE it allows you to do a mix of mp3 backing along with realtime playing of midjay sounds via your accordian??

Any styles you use would probably be better from the midjay itself, or the sd1 rather than trying to convert, unless you're desperate for a style that doesn't exist on the midjay..

I really don't know what your performance involves ie mp3's, midifiles, realtime styles via the accordian, but the Midjay as far as I'm aware should cover all those bases.

If mp3's would work in your performance, you'd have the best of all 3 worlds, backing sequences with the original sounds from your PA & the Genesys, all in one neat easy to carry box.
Only question would be is if it can play midi sounds & mp3's at the same time?

That's what I hope to do one day with the PA when I buy the MP3 card.
Record some favourite backing tracks from my PSR & SD1 as MP3's, should I ever decide to sell the keyboards. This way the songs play with the original sounds, no additional editing required. Wish I'd thought to do the same with my Technics KN7000 before I'd sold it.

best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jerry T:
[B]
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#226308 - 02/08/08 08:16 PM Re: My take on the PA800
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Frank,
sorry Frank, I'm just a fickle female. haahaa.

best wishes
Rikki

Quote:
Originally posted by Frank L. Rosenthal:
Here I thought I had converted Rikki to the software approach. I must have been suffering from delusions of granduer....sadly I am left with merely the echoes of my mind....it is oh so lonely in there!!!
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#226309 - 02/08/08 10:00 PM Re: My take on the PA800
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Graham,

I had a look. I can't find a way of saving the required setting for Songbook.

Looks like it's something one has to remember to turn on or off manually.

Also noticed if the button is flashing & you use the songbook, if for instance your choice is variation 3, sts3 automatically pops up, wheras if you choose variation 3 & the button is not flashing, it defaults to the sounds on sts1 even though it's variation 3.

So be careful.

The only thing that springs to mind would be to create a modified style for the ones where you only want to use 2 variations & need 4 sts's.
Just say you only use variation 1 & 2. Variation 1 & 2 could be copied over the top of variation 3 & 4. So you'd end up with V1, V2, V1,V2 or V1 V1, V2 V2, whatevever suits the song & you alter your STS's to suit. This way you wouldn't need to keep switching the button on & off.
May sound a bit overboard, but if it's only for a few styles, wouldn't be hard to do.

It's a case of using the style copy function & would only take a matter of minutes for each style & it's fairly simple.
My 2 speedy digits can copy all the style parts from one style to a new style in 2 minutes flat, now that the procedure is ingrained in the brain. haahaa

It's a bit late for this Sunday,( it's Saturday night here) but if you like I could modify a few for you next week, to see if it would work, & give you detailed instructions on how to do it yourself if you need more done down the track..

You're still basically using the original style , but with duplicated variations.
So you'd still have your original, and a modified user style.

Meanwhile would writing a note on your sheet music if you use it, or just a little note paper, with turn on or off for the songs help. Just to get you thru tomorrow till you can sort out what you want to do.

best wishes
Rikki

maybe we've missed something & someone will pop up with an easier solution.
Quote:
Originally posted by PraiseTheLord:
Steve explained my problem well. I have noticed that on some songs I only like 2 of the variations but want 4 variations of sounds, so linking them by pressing Single Touch until it flashes does not help me. In this case I would like the songbook setting to choose Single Touch On.

On Sunday I have a total of 12 songs, some with styles, some just sounds (you guessed it - organ) some where I would like to link the variations and STS settings, some not. So it would be great if Songbook remembered it all for me.

I know, I must be crazy using the Pa2X so soon after receiving it, but it has really pushed me to learn. I am trusting to God's help and experience to take me through the unexpected issues that occur during the service.

Graham
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#226310 - 02/09/08 06:11 PM Re: My take on the PA800
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Stephen,
I noticed you & Graham didn't have much luck with this function over at the Korg site either.
A setting that songbook obviously doesn't remember.
I ran one option past Graham ie duplicate styles, could get messy if one has a lot of them.

What I've decided to do personally is, rename the songs, FULL CAPITAL LETTERS if I need the button flashing , or all lowercase letters if I don't.

This hopefully will prompt me to remember to turn the flashing button on or off.
I think it would just become habit.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Stephenm52:
[B]Rikki, My understanding of what Graham is explaining ( I have the same problem ) is this:

Songbook remembers all your settings

[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 02-09-2008).]
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#226311 - 02/09/08 07:00 PM Re: My take on the PA800
Stephenm52 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 5126
Loc: USA
Quote:
Originally posted by rikkisbears:
Hi Stephen,
I noticed you & Graham didn't have much luck with this function over at the Korg site either.
A setting that songbook obviously doesn't remember.
I ran one option past Graham ie duplicate styles, could get messy if one has a lot of them.

What I've decided to do personally is, rename the songs, FULL CAPITAL LETTERS if I need the button flashing , or all lowercase letters if I don't.

This hopefully will prompt me to remember to turn the flashing button on or off.
I think it would just become habit.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Stephenm52:
[B]Rikki, My understanding of what Graham is explaining ( I have the same problem ) is this:

Songbook remembers all your settings

[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 02-09-2008).]


Rikki, sounds like a good method. I've put about 300 custom songs to date in Songbook, it may take a bit of work but could be very worth the effort.



[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 02-09-2008).]

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#226312 - 02/09/08 08:29 PM Re: My take on the PA800
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Stephen,
wow, that's a lot of songs.
I'm hoping those CAPITALS will prompt us to switch on or off .
Maybe start with a few & see if it is a reminder.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Stephenm52:
[B] Rikki, sounds like a good method. I've put about 300 custom songs to date in Songbook, it may take a bit of work but could be very worth the effort.
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#226313 - 02/09/08 09:38 PM Re: My take on the PA800
Ketron_AJ Offline
Moderator

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3585
Loc: Middletown, DE
The issue with the KORG (Italian made) Pa FILL INs is thus (in my opinion).

If you press the FILL at the right time (down-beat), you get (for many styles) a slight increase in volume especially on chords that have/use guitar tracks.

If you press the FILL at the wrong time (up beat), you get both the increase in volume AND feeling (hard to put into words) that the fill is trying to "CATCH UP" with the variation you came from ~ almost as if the FILLS and Variations/Endings were programmed by different people. This issue dates back to the entire PA line; but WASN'T the case with the (Japanese built) "I-series"!!

When I asked the Korg Italy S.p.a Engineer at NAMM 2007, I was told the intention was to emulate the 'excitment' a band portrayed when they played a fill/roll - however (to me) they do not sound natural!!

Just my thoughts ... but the variations are some of the best out there with the 'subtle' variation within the style variation technic - especially within styles with long measured variations.

Yamaha, Ketron, Roland and even Technics have smooth style transitions and no matter when you press the FILL, you get a smooth fill and return to variation!!

AJ
_________________________
[KETRON - USA]
Design Engineer & Product Specialist.
www.KetronAmerica.com

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#226314 - 02/10/08 03:03 AM Re: My take on the PA800
Dreamer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/23/01
Posts: 3849
Loc: Rome - Italy
One thing that never ceases to amaze me with the PA2X Pro is the way a style varies when you play, for example, a seventh chord (or an equivalent, like a ninth, 13th, etc): it's like you were triggering a fill of some kind, because the style becomes more animated and the drummer plays different percussions, adding even a cymbal here and there, just like a real drummer who is anticipating what is about to come. This kind of variety makes less important the need to trigger a real fill with the dedicated buttons, not to mention the possibility to add even more variety with one of the multipads (especially if you take your time to program a sampled groove).
_________________________
Korg Kronos 61 and PA3X-Pro76, Roland G-70, BK7-m and Integra 7, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, vintage Gibson SG standard.

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#226315 - 02/10/08 08:06 AM Re: My take on the PA800
zuki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 4718
AJ,

Thanks for your comments. It's nice to know you have an inside track to talk to the programmers. Maybe next time, tell them to make that improvement for us

That said, the unnatural fill is only a few styles - so it's not an issue with me. Like Dreamer said, you don't need to keep seeking fills, fills, fills (boring and repetitive).

Per your comment on the other boards and their smoothness: I didn't find that the case on my VA/E series and even the 900 (I play live with). They all have their hiccups on certain styles. I've not played a Ketron (ever) or the new G70/E80 to determine if they're flawless.

For me, the harmonizer and power of the 800 pushes it over the edge for excitement. I believe the audience will really enjoy what comes out of that board.....it just might take me several months before I unveil it
_________________________
Live: Korg PA4X/EV Everse 8s/Senn 935/K&M stand

Studio: Korg PA4X/Yamaha DGX670/Boss BR900CD/Tascam DP24SD/MTM Iloud/Sony C80/AGK 214/K&M stand

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#226316 - 02/10/08 01:37 PM Re: My take on the PA800
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Thank you AJ,
interesting to read your comments.
-------------------------------------------
I must admit I hardly ever find the need to hit the fill buttons either , except for maybe on my converted styles.
-------------------------------------------
Dreamer, how are you you going with your sampled grooves?? have you tried any of the BIAB real drums to see if they'll work?
Are you mainly using the grooves for the pads??

Currently I've limited myself to a few Jazz brush swishes. Can't remember if they're BIAB real drums or from another source. The PA800 of course doesn't have the amount of sample ram that you can achieve on your PA2x , & I don't want to keep loading & unloading grooves.

best wishes
Rikki

Quote:
Originally posted by Dreamer:
This kind of variety makes less important the need to trigger a real fill with the dedicated buttons, not to mention the possibility to add even more variety with one of the multipads (especially if you take your time to program a sampled groove).[/B]
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#226317 - 02/11/08 02:35 AM Re: My take on the PA800
Dreamer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/23/01
Posts: 3849
Loc: Rome - Italy
Rikki,
the sampled grooves are one of the features that excite me the most about the PA2X Pro (the second one is the option to load your own samples and the third one is the master keyboard ability, that has enabled me for the first time to use my Yamaha Motif ES rack and my Fantom XR as a part of my Registrations or Performances).
So far I have tried to load only a few samples loops, chosen among the most useful and universal ones; they really make a difference. I have never tried to replace with sampled loops all the drum parts of a style, though.
I have never tried the BIAB Real Drums, but this is not a problem since I have a ton of loops CDs.
_________________________
Korg Kronos 61 and PA3X-Pro76, Roland G-70, BK7-m and Integra 7, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, vintage Gibson SG standard.

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#226318 - 02/11/08 01:58 PM Re: My take on the PA800
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Dreamer,
as a master keyboard it really has worked out better than I'd imagined. I've had it midied to the sd1 & the sd2 module just to try it out.
Down the track I may get back to involvement with softsyths just for the melody parts. Maybe less strain on my laptop if it's only being used as a soundmodule not as a complete software arranger.
If you have a heap of audio loop cd's, you're probably better off with those anyway. The BIAB real drum loops require a fair bit of editing before they can be used.
Can be a real time waster. haahaa

It's great to hear your PA2X is working out well.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dreamer:
[B]Rikki,
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#226319 - 02/11/08 04:53 PM Re: My take on the PA800
mikey_maestro Offline
Member

Registered: 07/12/07
Posts: 548
Loc: San Tan Valley, AZ
Zuki,

Do you have a website?
I'd love to check it out

Mikey

------------------
God Bless,
Mikey

www.mikeymaestro.com
www.balloonanimal.com
www.1000colorcards.com

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