I thought the G1000 version sounded better.. quite a bit actually.... but I don't think using an unmodified midfile is a fair comparison in the first place. While I don't have a T2 to compare, I've never liked any Yamaha I've ever owned for midifile playback.

The Motif ES doesn't sound very good playing most of my commercial midifiles either, as the many of the GM sounds aren't very pleasing at all and while I've never owned a G1000 or similar Roland board, I've often heard that Roland's are one of the better brands for GM sounds. I'll go as far as to say that my old software Hypercanvas ( Edirol / Roland ) module sounds better than my ES when strictly speaking in terms of SMF playback.

Of my three hardware boards, for playback on the majority of my midifiles using GM only, I would say that I prefer my MZ2000, with the PA80 lagging behind a little, and my ES a distant third. Yet the ES overall has much more pleasing lead voices for me than the other two.

My point I guess is that these boards are designed specifically as arrangers and not midifile playback machines, and it's hard to judge them on the merit of SMF playback only, particularly when using only the GM wavetables in each. It is apparent to me that Yamaha probably never has paid a lot of attention to producing quality GM sounds.

While I'd someday like to see a Tyros II accompanying me to a gig, I'll also say I'm still happy with my two "old" arrangers as well.. the PA80 and the MZ, so if it never happens that I wind up with a brand new T2 or other latest and greatest, I'll be just fine anyway I think.

AJ



[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 05-14-2006).]

Fran,

Go ahead and email me the sequence if you'd like. I'll do a PA80 and MZ version along with an SGM180 soundfont version as well.


AJ

Fran,

My post was not a challenge and was not meant to be in any way, shape or form. The comparison I was hoping to hear was a live performance MP3 done using the G-1000 V/S the Tyros2 of the same song. The midi file you posted as an MP3 was one that I have as well and it really sounds great. However, I have no way of knowing what keyboard the file was created with, and if I recall, it's a GM file that had lots of edits and layers. This doesn't tell me a thing about the G-1000's voices V/S some of the new Yamaha voices. It just tells me the G-1000 does an excellent job of playing GM midi files, which most of us already knew. I guess my point is that those new, live, super articulated and sweet voices, IMO, put life into the sounds coming from the keyboard. When you can hear the breath in a sax, vibrato in the trumpet, reverb and fret noises in guitars, this is a dimension that, at leat to me, is very exciting and adds realism that was obviously missing in the older boards.

An awared winning sax player who was recently inducted into the Musician's Hall Of Fame in Baltimore said "I wiah I could get the same sounds from my real sax as the ones I hear coming from my Tyros. They're fantastic!"

Another classic example can be heard by just listening to a live performance by Don Mason, of which I had the distinct privelage a couple years ago. Don can do things with Yamaha's incredible guitars that makes most musicians envious. Granted, much of this can be attributed to his playing skill, but a significant portion of the sounds must be credited to the creativity of Yamaha's engineers who put the depth and quality into each of those voices.

I guess if all you're doing is playing GM midi files, the older keyboards will sound fantastic. However, for live performances I sincerely believe the newer keyboards will provide superior sounds.

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

[This message has been edited by travlin'easy (edited 05-15-2006).]

Gary, I got what you mean..And I pretty much agree with you..As for Don playing those guitar parts...he makes every keyboard sound good..

I know what you are talking about in reference to the built in vibrato in the new stuff[especially Yamaha]..I much prefer to use after touch to bring in vibrato..it sounds more realistic to me, and allows me better control..

I will do a live Honky Tonk on the G1000 when I get a chance..I will try to simulate Doggett's tune[maybe I can send my version to Don, and he can add the guitar licks].

As we always say ..play what makes you happy..

Gary, can't the better sounds you are referring to, be applied to the sequence...I am sure the "live" and "cool" voices can...maybe this will illustrate the quality of the Yamaha [new] sounds..

[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 05-15-2006).]

Fran,

Those specialized voices are limited to playback within the orriginating keyboard. Therefore, if the midi file was created on the Tyros2, when played back on the Tyros2 the sounds would be identical. However, when played back on a keyboad that did not contain those specific voices, the keyboard would substitute onboard voices, some that are so far off the wall you cannot imagine. An example of this is the anoying hand-clap that shows up on some files that used the brush-kit drums. Many of the older midi files are no longer compatible with the newer keyboards, which is another problem.

Gotta' go to work,

Gary

Listening to the Tyros2 recordings [maybe live is different], it seems like I am listening to a band..down the hall in another room...It is not the individual sounds that are at fault,,there seems to be no definition or separation of sound..

I just listened to DNJ's T2 demos..the arranger parts seem to be the section that lacks this definition/separation I am not hearing..On Donny's Tango demo it is less noticeable, because the style background is sparse compared to the other demos..

Guys, don't get all excited, I am not knocking the T2, I am trying to explain what I hear....Listen with an open mind..
To me , it sounds like the Tyros2 is so dependent on effects that the sounds[style] are lost[separation]...almost organish[?]..

No arguments...just help explain what is going on..

The isolated guitar patches sound great..The piano doesn't..I have heard a sax solo that sounded great[again isolated].

When it is all put together it doesn't work for me..

BTW, getting back to the original topic...Last month at our Solo Musicians meeting..A NJ guy brought in a Technics KN2000, to entertain during dinner and play for a couple lady vocalist..
Across the board it was not as good as the newer Technics stuff, butt for bass, drums and organ[even in arranger mode]..it sound great.
We had a couple top notch piano players sitting at a Yamaha grand...they eventually got up from the piano[didn't want to compete with what they were hearing from the KN2000]..

I played a KN2000 for a couple of years. It was WAY ahead of it's time. Good drums, organs and even guitars.
DonM

WOW!!! Ae we being way to critical here regading arranger KB sound? And if so WHY? are we trying to impress ourselves or an unknowing audience?

You are right Donny..Maybe I am too critical about something our audiences could never even give a thought ...

But like my original statement..newer is not always better...so I will keep my antique for a while..

The idea of the post was to generate conversation about old sounds verses the new sounds...nothing to do with brands..