I posted this same message in a different topic but I decided to start a new one in case you miss it.
I'm just starting to come down from the enjoyment I've had playing this keyboard all day today.
The PA800 is one great new board! In a year where nothing has really made me really excited, this keyboard is the medicine I think the music industry needs right now. The past several months have been rather dissapointing in as much as nothing really new has arrived on the scene.
The PA800 delivers on all points. First, the build quality and weight is spectacular. It looks really good (dark Blue) and the keys feel very good. Not like the PA50 and PA80 but better. They are not semiwheighted but still have a very nice feel. There is aftertouch, which korg uses really well with voices that need the extra touch of volume, vibrato, effects or tonal change. The speakers are really loud! and clean with very good bass.
The inputs, outputs, USB host and 2 USB 2.0 ports, one up front and one in back are all you need. No hardrive comes with this model but you can add one but I don't think anyone will need to. You can use a usb flash drive or any external USB hard drive.
The vocal harmonizer is the TC Helicon which works great. There are two mic/line inputs with trim pots for both. Only input 1 can be routed through the harmonizer and effects. Input two passes through and comes out the right output. I love that the harmonizer now has an on screen equalizer that pops up when you access the harmony mode from the main page.
By the way, every part of this model has it's own EQ settings so you can eq just the bass style track, etc.
One of the new features is having 16 oscillators per voice so you can stack up a huge amount of sounds on one key for incredible realism using velocity crossfades.
The polyphony is 120 and the sounds are just incredible. In speaking with a friend at Korg today, he explained to me that the sound engine in this keyboard is more similar to the oasis than to the triton now.
The new acoustic piano is first class. Nothing like the PA1X which although I think is good, this is more like the Roland G70 now. The guitars are great with lots of expression. Trumpets, Strings, actually, I can't find any sounds that aren't up to the highest levels.
The styles are in my opinion where this model really shines. Although there are many from the PA1XPRO, there are so many new ones and although you could load these into a PA1X, they won't sound the same because this model has so many new sounds that just would loose some sparkle if not played in this model.
There are so many unplugged styles and when used with the pads (4) additional guitar strums and picking patterns as well as additional drum loops are added for really great add ons to the styles. As far as styles go, there are nothing but great styles in each catagory and Korg has added a third "quick" ending to the 800.
There is also now a dedicated vocal harmony on and off button and a dedicated vocal harmony effect on and off button.
One of the new features which many who liked to load sets into their PA1XPRO's will be happy to hear about is that after you've loaded a set from a drive into the internal memory and let's say it takes 3 minutes to load 16MB of samples or up to 10 minutes to load up all 64MB of included memory, when you shut of the keyboard and have selected "autoload PCM" mode in the preferences section of the "media" button, when you turn on the keyboard the next time the same samples load up when powering on in a fraction of the time it took before. Middle eastern musicians who need their own sounds, loops and styles will love the quickness.
The best part of all this for me, is that this keyboard sells for just a little bit over the price of the discontinued PA80. What a bargain!
Lastly, for now, and I could go on forever, there are two modes for those unfamiliar with Korg products. There's a drop down menue which allows you to check the box called "easy mode". When done, the screen has larger icons and less information to make navigation for some easier until you want to go into full navigation and then you can change back.
I made a phone call today to the product manager of the arranger keybaords at Korg USA today and thanked him for providing me with a keyboard to examine and play and show my customers and to also thank him for bringing such a smile to my face for developing something so enjoyable to play!

Don Mason, are you reading this...........If you get one of these I know you will be very happy!


------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566 www.kayesmusicscene.com

George, I AM reading it for sure. Thanks!
I just got home for a job at Barksdale AFB, and had to wrestle that big ol G70 in freezing weather with a 30 mph wind. We're not used to that cold down here.
Anyway, I look forward to getting the PA800.
I'll call you tomorrow. Later today that is.
I hope it knows some country stuff.
The more I play the G70 the more impressed I am with the sounds and styles. It absolutely sounds like a live band playing. I hope the PA800 is that good.
Thanks again,
DonM

Hi George
Great report, there is however one question.
Loading times, you mention up to 10 min for 64 MB whereas if the USB stick and port were USB 2 it should be no more than a few seconds. Can you confirm?
Enjoy whatever you play

Bill

I tried the PA800 and I found the Piano sound to be very poor in expressiveness, not comparable with the 4-layer stereo 88-key sampling Piano of G-70 or (even better) E-80 (and smaller sisters E-50/60).
Anyway, this is just my humble opinion.

Ooh, you make me drool for one, George. For one thing, I am glad to hear that the speakers are loud. My psr2000 is loud enough but I have always wondered why they don't make them louder. In some quiter situations, you could even gig with speakers only if they were louder.

Couple of years ago, somewhere on the net, I came across a group of PA80 files that were playable on my psr2000. It is my favorite group of styles. I have never heard any Yamaha styles so refreshing as these. This group is rock style. If PA800 has (or one could find) good country styles, I know I want one! I hate to get away from Yamaha because I know the OS, but...

Maybe some day.

------------------
Bill
Yamaha PSR2000

Hi,

thanks George. Your opinion is always welcome.

Regards.

Great review, George...I have a few Canadian friends who are interested in the PA-800.

Sounds like a fine instrument.

Ian

------------------
Remember to leave good news alone.

I just realized that the drive I was using was not a 2.0 drive. This must be why the load time was the same as the PA1XPRO.
As for the Grand Piano sound, I think most of you know I'm not anything but an old Trumpet Player who enjoys playing simple chords and simple right hand playing. I only listen mostly to what my ears tell me a nice piano should sound like and I listen to the "expressivness" of playing the keys soft and harder for the realistic natures of a grand piano. To my ear, and going back and forth to the Korg PA1XPRO piano and the Roland G70 sitting next to it, I thought the PA800 sounds so much like the Roland. I will spend more time comparing Pianos today.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

Don't worry Bill, you can drool over mine when I get it.
DonM

George:

I know this is a loaded question, but here goes anyway. What are your impressions PA 800 vs. the T2?

Try comparing the piano sounds playing single notes from pp to ff and I'm sure you'll appreciate the difference.

George...Great review. Your enthusiasm certain shows in your report....keep em coming.

Hi George,

GREAT REVIEW! I'm curious. Does the PA800 have the equivalent of T2's MUSIC FINDER??

Regards,
Don

George, just to clarify........ what is the maximum sample RAM on the PA800, and how long does it take to load 64MB from the internal memory (is this solid-state or an internal HD?) into the active RAM. Is this true USB 2 speed, or just more efficient USB1 speeds? Theoretically, USB 1 ought to get close to 1MB/sec, and USB 2 is at least 100X faster.

My venerable K2500 can get about 1MB/sec from it's internal SCSI disk, so about 1 min for 64MB. PLEASE tell me that things have got better in the last 10 years! Sampling in an arranger is such a good idea, but only if tied to a fast load-up time, given the constant need to change setups and sounds at the drop of a hat.......

Oh, and does loading samples up render the keyboard dead, or can you play while loading?

Thanks.....

The Korg has a SongBook. You can read about it in the manual.
http://www.korgpa.com/pa_root/pdf/pa800/Pa800-100F-ENG.pdf

Regards,

Jerry



[This message has been edited by Jerryghr (edited 12-01-2006).]

George, thanks for the great review. How's the organ/B3 sound and Leslie sim?

Thanks,
Glenn

I was almost ready to take the plunge and get a Tyros 2, but after a bit of research on this keyboard I am a bit confused?!? Hmmmmm.......

The organs are great. They are the same as the PA1XPRO. There are digital draw bars like the Yamaha and Roland and the leslie can be ramped up fast or slow by using the joy stick, a foot switch or EC5 pedal board (and you can also assign perc.on and off and organ noise on and off, rotor on or off and slow to fast on and off as well!)
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

I found out today that the PA800's are actually at the dock in New York and are going through customs. I will have my first order of 9 arriving sometime between the 10th and 15th according to Korg.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California www.kayesmusicscene.com
818-881-5566

"Sittin' on the Dock of the Bay, watchin' the time roll away".
DonM

So who will be the first owner here on SZ ......? we need reviews and demo songs.

George,

Can you compare the PA800 to the PA1x.
Other than the polyphony being more, is there a significant difference in the machines?

I had owned a PA1xpro, and loved the sounds, drums, and only started liking the styles when they released the Latin board, it started to have that wow sound of the SD1 when that was first released.

Thanks

Also how would you compare it to the Tyros 2/ and SD5.

I feel the T2 is a little to polished sounding, so I'm leaning more towards that live band sound of the Ketron/Korg thing, although I do love the SA voices

Thanks
Frank

[This message has been edited by frankieve (edited 12-02-2006).]

I'm getting one asap. They are still not here.
Stay tuned, though, it has to be as good as the G70, and it is really good.
DonM

Don,
Thanks for alerting me to this forum. I want to hear your PA800 when you start working with it. My Bose System is in the mail!

Jay R

Jay,
I'm so glad you found your way here. It was a pleasure to meet you and your wife, Martha.
I know you will enjoy the Bose system.
Sorry you got here when the "family" is fighting as it is pretty embarassing to me to invite someone to join and then expose them to all that.
Oh well, look past it and you will learn a lot here, and I'm sure you will contribute a lot as well.
DonM

Everyone,
I have an advanced release model. Korg has a shipment sitting on the docks in New York. As soon as they arrive I will be receiving my order. This should be, according to Korg around the 10th or so. Not a guaranty but an educated guess from Korg USA.
The new features of this keyboard compared to the PA1X keyboard would be the addition of an "easy Mode" which makes it easier to navigate for the first time Korg user.
There are now 2- 2.0 USB slots for saving, loading and playing songs.
There is a dedicated Mic on/off button. A dedicated Vocal on/off button and a dedicated vocal effect on/off button.
There are hundreds of new sounds plus many of the original PA!X sounds. The engine now allows for 16 oscillators per voice compared to only 5 on the PA1X.
There are so many new styles plus old styles plus new catagories called unplugged and contemporary
There is a new button called favorites where you can save all your favorite styles in an order you want to see them in.
Most every other button is the same as the PA1X. What is missing are the 8 faders, the PA800 has two assignable. There is a new fader which allows you to mix between the accomp. and the right hand voices. This is set to equal mix in the middle and all style at the bottom and all right hand at the top.
There are 4 outputs and 2 inputs, both with gain controls for mics or CD's, etc. The mic input is 1/4" only, no XLR like the PA1X.
The PA800 cannot take expansion boards like the latin card, etc. This is reserved for the higher priced PA1X. Sample memory in the PA800 is 64. It is 16 MB in the PA1X and can only be expanded to 32MB with a chip.
The screen on the PA800 is in several colors, included Yellow, Blue, Green and Red. The PA1X is only blue and white.
That's about it.......




------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

What are the speakers like in terms of sound quality/fidelity and volume compared to the PA1X ? I know that it has lower power according to the specs but what does that mean to your ear ?

Next release the new PA1X operating system will include:

Support for long file names. You are no longer limited to the classic format 8.3, all capitals. Now names can be as long as you like, and mix upper and lower case characters. Names of files trasferred via USB or CD from a personal computer will not be cut into shorter names, and will look exactly as the original.

Easier way to start recording Songs from any measure. Go on recording your Song. If you want to do second-pass recording, starting from a measure different than the first one, you are no longer asked to move to that measure using the Fast Forward command. Just choose the new starting measure with the Start Measure parameter, and go on recording from there.

Up to 16 oscillators per Sound. Create Sounds as sophisticate as you like. In the Pa1X, each oscillator is a different sound at all. You can either create very rich sounds, or add as many dynamic layers as you like, for the highest degree of nuance in a single sound.

Smarter pre-selection of Style Elements. You can now select a different Variation just before jumping to a different Style. The Variation you choose will overtake the one memorized in the Style Performance.

Faster SongBook operations. Huge SongBook files are now loaded and saved much quicker.
Ending 3. A new, shorter ending is included. For those of you who prefer to cut short in the end.

Revised user interface, with bigger buttons, bigger fonts and colored sliders.

Enhanced Lyrics and Select pages, for better readibility.

Revised Musical Resources, with various improvements and the new Ending 3 for Styles.

Smarter Solo Mode, to be activated with Shift + Touch.

Tempo Lock in Song Play mode, to quickly freeze Tempo and keep it the same in subsequent Songs.

Contextual Help now available also in Dutch and Russian languages

Franky


[This message has been edited by silva (edited 12-03-2006).]

Originally posted by Diki:

"George, just to clarify........ what is the maximum sample RAM on the PA800, and how long does it take to load 64MB from the internal memory (is this solid-state or an internal HD?) into the active RAM. Is this true USB 2 speed, or just more efficient USB1 speeds? Theoretically, USB 1 ought to get close to 1MB/sec, and USB 2 is at least 100X faster."

Orginally posted by George Kaye:

"I just realized that the drive I was using was not a 2.0 drive. This must be why the load time was the same as the PA1XPRO."


>>I hate to break the news to everybody but only the front USB ports on the Pa800 are USB 2.0 i.e. (hi-speed/up to 480 Mbits transfer rate) and they are USB to 'Host' only. In other words they can't connect to an external USB Hard Drive, Thumb Drive, etc., only to a USB host like the ones found on a computer. The USB port on the "back" of the Pa800 is a USB to 'Device' but it is only USB 1.1 i.e. (full speed/up to 12 Mbits transfer rate). >> It would have been nice if Korg included a USB "2.0" to 'Device' interface also. As it stands now you will need a Laptop or Desktop computer with USB 2.0 ports to take advantage of the 480 Mbits transfer speed (up to 60 Mega 'Bytes'/s) on the Pa800's USB 2.0 to Host ports on the front of the keyboard. If Korg had included a USB 2.0 to "Device" interface on the Pa800 it would have eliminated the need for hooking it up to a computer to get the 2.0 speeds. A person could have just used a USB 2.0 Thumb Drive or external Hard Drive (which is very compact and portable and not NEAR AS EXPENSIVE! as a bulkier Laptop computer.

Oh well, I guess you can't have your cake and eat it too as they say.

But if you don't mind hauling around a Laptop (one with USB 2.0 ports) to your gigs then you're in fat city I suppose. But guard that puppy with your life! And be extremely careful you don't damage it some how.

PS: It would have been ideal though for Korg to have included a USB 2.0 to "Device" connection on the Pa800 also. >> Are you listening Yamaha??

Best regards,
Mike

Mike,

I am afraid you got it wrong here. From the Pa800 specs:

"2 Host Front/Rear (2.0 Hi Speed) and 1 Device Rear (1.1 Full Speed) connections"

The two USB 2.0 host ports (one on the front and one on the rear) are for connecting flash drives, external hard drives and cd/dvd readers. They are definitely USB2. I have currently a flash drive and a cd/dvd reader connected directly to my Pa800.

The USB 1.1 device port on the back is primarely for MIDI communication and USB 1.1 is more than fast enough for this.

Kind regards,
Tommy

That's great news, Tommy! Thanks for contributing and WELCOME to the Arranger Forum!
I look forward to owning a PA800 and will order one in the next few days.
Even though I promised myself I would never buy another keyboard without trying it first, I will make ONE more exception, based on my experience with the PA80 and my confidence in the judgement of George Kaye.
DonM

Hi Don,

Thank you for your welcome! I think you will be very happy with your Pa800. I have upgraded from a Pa60 and the Pa800 is really like a "Pa80/Pa60 on steroids". After having it for nearly a month I am still impressed that Korg have been able to put so much great sound into such a small package. And yes, the built-in speakers sounds great with a strong and well defined bottom.

Kind regards,
Tommy

Mike,
I started to read your post and knew you were wrong and as I read I saw Tommy's post and knew he was correct. It is confusing to read the specs in the manual but there are two USB to Device Ports and one USB to Host computer ports on the PA800 and yes as Tommy says, both Device ports are 2.0.


------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

HI,my usb memory sticks work fine on the front &back of the 800,also i use a usb hardrive & a floppy sometimes the both work great , have not tried loading any sample stuff yet , as i am not ready for it yet, right now i am trying to figure out how to run the 800 from the pro, using it to control the 800, i think the make a nice duo in my opinion, best regards , BENNO

Don, is it updated to v3 yet, and if so, any big difference to see / hear??
Just asking cause I'm looking around what to add to my good old KN5k.

Happy playing
GJ

George and everyone else,

I read it straight from the horses mouth i.e. from the Korg.com web site.

Here ya' go..


PA800 - Professional Arranger with Speakers

Keyboard:
61 keys with Velocity and Aftertouch

System:
RX (Real eXperience) Technology
OPOS (Objective Portable Operating System) Multitasking (Load while play feature)
Upgradable Operative System
SSD Solid State Disk

Tone Generator:
KORG HI Synthesis (Hyper Integrated)
120 Voices, 120 Oscillators
Filters with Resonance
EQ for each track

Effects:
4 Stereo Digital Multi-Effect systems
124 Effects types plus VOCODER
Voice Processor Technology by TC Helicon: Three-part Harmonizer, Reverb, Delay, Compressor, EQ

Sounds & Drum Kits:
More than 950, including a Stereo Piano and GM Level 2 compatible Sounds
63 Drum Kits - User area: 256 Sounds, 64 Drum Kits
Digital Drawbars: 8 Footages
Realtime control: Assignable Sliders
Full editing of Sounds and Drum Kits
Sampling: Record, Edit, Time Slice, Load/Import of Korg, Wav, Aiff and Akai files
Export of Wav and Aiff files
PCM RAM Memory: 64 MB standard

Styles:
More than 400 preloaded Styles, SSD-resident, freely reconfigurable
Up to 960 available Style locations including the Favorite banks
Eight Style tracks, 4 Single Touch Settings and one Style Performance per Style
Compatible with old "i-Series" and Pa series Style format
Style Record with Step Record, Track and Event Edit functions
Style controls: 4 Variations, 3 Fills, 3 Intros, 3 Endings, Synchro Start/Stop, Tap Tempo/Reset, Fade In/Out, Bass Inversion, Manual Bass, Tempo Lock, Memory, Accompaniment/Real Time Track Balance Volume, Accompaniment Mute, Drum Mapping, Snare & Kick Designation, Single Touch

Performance/STS:
320 Realtime Performance locations
STS: Memorize Realtime tracks and Voice Processor settings, up to 4 x 960 Styles, up to 4 x SongBook entries

Realtime Tracks:
Four Keyboard tracks (Upper 1, 2, 3, Lower)
4 Pad tracks

Song Play:
Patented XDS Crossfade Dual Sequencer player
2 Sequencers with separate Select, Start/Stop, Home, Rewind and Fast Forward controls
Balance control
Lyrics data can be displayed on-screen, or on an external video monitor (with VIF4 option installed)
Markers
Jukebox function
Compatible with (formats 0 and 1)

Sequencer:
Quick Record (Backing Sequence), Multitrack and Step Record functions
Full-featured sequencer
16 tracks
Up to 200,000 events
SMF native format

SongBook:
Fully programmable music database, based on Styles, SMF, Karaoke with automatic selection of Style Play and Song Play modes
User-definable custom lists
Filtering options

Compatibility:
"i-Series" models: Styles
Pa series: Style, Performance, Program/Sound, Song, SongBook

Multi Pad:
4 Assignable Pads + Stop Button.
Pad Record function

Help System:
Hypertextual, Contextual, Multilingual

General Controls:
Master Volume, Real Time-Acc/Seq Balance Volume, Ensemble, Octave Transpose, Master Transpose, Style Change, Quarter Tone and Arabic Scale memorized inside Performance/STS
Realtime controllers: Joystick (pitch + modulation), 2 Assignable Sliders, 2 Assignable Switches, Dial, Up/+, Down/-


Control Inputs:
Damper Pedal (Support Half-Pedaling), Assignable Pedal/Switch, EC-5 (Programmable Multi-Switches)


Analog Output:
Unbalanced Jack Left/Mono, Right, Out 1, Out 2, Headphones


Analog Input:
2 Unbalanced/Balanced (automatic switch) Jack Line In with separate Gain control

MIDI:
In, Out, Thru standard MIDI connectors
USB MIDI using the USB Device port
Individual track assignment
8 user definable MIDI Setups

USB:
2 Host Front/Rear (2.0 Hi Speed) and 1 Device Rear (1.1 Full Speed) connections


Hard Disk:
Optional 2.5" ATA Hard Disk Drive


CD Player/Writer - Floppy Disk:
Optional standard USB CD-Drives to be connected to USB Host port


Display:
320 x 240 pixels, Color TouchView Graphic Touch Screen

Amplification:
2 x 22 W
Loudness
Fixed EQ


Speakers:
4 Speakers (10 cm Woofers + Tweeters)
2 way in Bass Reflex Box

Consumption:
40 Watt

Dimensions:
43.7" (W) x 13.3" (D) x 7.1" (H) inch without music stand

Weight:
29.3 lbs

Accessories:
Manual, AC Power Cable, Music Stand, CD-Rom

Specifications subject to change without notice

PS: I do see though that there is one USB 2.0 (To Host) connection on the front and also one USB 2.0 (To Host) on the back instead of both both USB 2.0 on the front as I stated previously. I was correct in stating that the USB 1.1 (To Device) is on the back of the Pa800.

>> So apparently Korg is wrong when they list the USB specs as "2 'Host' Front/Rear (2.0 Hi Speed) and 1 'Device' Rear (1.1 Full Speed) connections"??

PS: I realize that Manufacturers do post incorrect specs once in a while. If it is indeed incorrect information then Korg needs to correct it ASAP.

Best regards,
Mike

Slightly off track guys but - PA 800 v PA1X Pro - Sound differences ? I don't really want another 61 note KB but I am not sure about the PA1X sound quality ...can anyone tell me the difference between the sounds on PA1X Pro and the PA800...brass and piano particularly..
Thanks

Mike,
the usb on the front is a usb 2.0 to device and so is the other one on the back. And also on the back is one usb to host. the wording on the specs is not easy to understand.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

Yeah it's very confusing to say the least George. Korg should correct it by re-phrasing the wording.

Okay,.. well I'm really glad that there IS two USB 2.0 to "Device" connections on the Pa800. I wasn't complaining at all I was just stating the info from the Korg site.

This is really a breakthrough for Arrangers in that the Pa800 to my knowledge is the first and only Arranger ever to have USB 2.0 capability built in. The Lionstrac Mediastation has USB 2.0 but according to their web site it is through an external interface instead of internal and I'm not sure if it's To Host or To Device either.

Kudos to Korg Italy for giving the Pa800 two USB 2.0 To Device connections although I would have liked to have also seen the To "Host" connection USB 2.0 too.

Now if they would just re-word the manual and their web site it would go a long way in alleviating any confusion to consumers.

Best regards,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 12-10-2006).]

Hi Mike
Mediastation like Wersi OAS instruments use a standard computer inside, so the USB 2 sockets are identical to what you get on a computer. (Depending on the type of Motherboard there is normally between 4 and 6 sockets)
BTW Wersi changed to P4 boards in 2003 and AMD in 2006, so from 2003 on they have always had USB 2.
Hope this clears up the confusion

Bill

I honestly don't think it matters whether it has USB 1 or USB 2 unless the interface works at the full (or close to it!) speed potential of each protocol. AFAIK, the only function the PA800 has that even requires the improved speed of USB 2 would be sample loading (who would need 50MB of style data in a few seconds?), but as of yet, no-one has posted any real world sample load up times with a USB 2 HD.

As I have stated many times in the past, sampling in an arranger demands WAY more speed of loading than a regular workstation, simply because of the demands of going from ANY song to ANY song at the drop of a hat. If these styles use sampled sounds, the necessity that they load up close to instantaneously is imperative.

Imagine if your arranger took two minutes to load a style.... you probably would never use that style in a live setting...!

If my 10 year old (plus!) K2500 can load at 1MB/sec, if you read USB 1's specs, theoretically it should be able to get very close to the K2500's load times, yet there is not a single sampler out there that uses USB 1 that even approaches 1/10th of that speed. And just including USB 2 in the PA800 will not be of any significantly useful increase unless the sample RAM load times get exponentially faster, which so far no-one has indicated.

One of the main reasons that Mediastation and other computer/hardware arrangers are showing the way is the phenomenally faster sample load times, and even sample streaming (although the thought of a HD doing a read or write while it encased in a keyboard that you are pounding on at the same time gives me pause!) at contemporary computer speeds. If your arranger needs to go dead for AT LEAST a minute, to load up 64MB of samples (less than a 1/10th of the T2's total RAM capacity), and probably more like 3-4 mins, you just aren't going to use it much, and thus the 'feature' becomes more of a marketing hype tool than a practical, ARRANGER based function.

We need to place as much pressure as possible on arranger manufacturers to add a 21st century data transfer protocol to 21st century arrangers, otherwise they are just dangling a carrot in front of us that we will never reach......

I just took a look at the front and the back of the PA800 and I just realized they really did mess up on their wording. Right on the front, the USB jack that is clearly a "device" USB jack says "host(F)" and the USB jack in the rear says "host(R)". The other jack in the rear says "device" and as we all know, the square USB is the "Host" and the rectangle is the "device".
It seems pretty clear to me that someone in Italy got confused with the wording. If you look at a Yamaha PSR3000 or Tyros2 you see the same plugs marked correctly. Now I understand why their wording on their website and the ownersmanual is wrong. In fact, here's what it says in the owners manual:
"Host(F)
This is a USB Type A (Master/Host)connector, USB2.0 compliant (High Speed). It duplicates the USB connector located in the rear panel. Use it to connect to the PA800 a USB Flash Memory stick, an external CD-ROM drive, an USB hard disk. To acess the connected device, go to the Media edit mode."
So, they know what the connector is for, but the word for it should have said "Device(F)"


------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

Diki,

Korg has actually tried their best to solve the problem you describe. When you load a sample from a flash drive or a hard disk a copy is saved in a hidden flash area inside the Pa800. The samples in this area are automatically loaded into sample ram when you turn on the keyboard (this function is called "PCM Autoload"). It takes a little longer to turn on the Pa800 when PCM Autload is activated depending on the amount of samples. I have not made excact measurements but it is around 10-20 seconds.

This means that there is absolutely no load time when using your own samples and sound programs. They work exactly as the factory sounds. And of course you can use the samples in your styles and these styles will also load without any delay.

The only downside is that you must be able to fit all your samples into 64 mb.

Kind regards,
Tommy

[This message has been edited by TommyF (edited 12-10-2006).]

Unfortunately, you don't get a lot of really good sounds out of 64MB - that's about how much you need just for a good piano. To use a sampler effectively (think sliced drum loops or a really decent sax or a hiphop drum kit) you are going to need to reload the memory pretty often - the factory ROM is pretty good in comparison to most REALLY memory-efficient sample sets (and most modern sample sets try more for realism than memory efficiency).

The T2's 512MB is what I'd call adequate if you couldn't reload too fast, but it still takes more than 30 minutes to load...... not very practical on tight gigs!

No...... what we REALLY need is 512MB or more of RAM..... PLUS genuine USB 2 load times. Then sampler use on arrangers will really take off.....

Yes, I do agree that 64 mb is somewhat limiting. I would love to have 512 mb or more. However 64 mb is better than nothing and this was a deciding factor for me when I had to choose between E80 and Pa800. The E80 has no sampler and very limited sound editing in comparison to the Korg which gives access to all the synth parameters - it is really a synth workstation with arranger functionality.

Kind regards,
Tommy

I sent an email off to Korg Italy yesterday regarding two things:
First, the time it takes to load a set from a jump drive via the 2.0 USB port and the wording they've choosen to use to label these USB ports.
I received two replys today from my good friend at Korg and here are his exact replys:

"The first time you load samples, data has to go
through several steps (USB to µprocessor, to DSP,
to data controller chips) and be processed.
Furthermore, samples are written at the same time
in RAM and in the internal Flash-RAM memory. This
demands for some computation-intensive time.

When you turn the Pa800 on next time, data are
already in the right format and at the right
place. In addition to this, loading from the
internal Flash-RAM to RAM is much faster than
loading from USB to RAM, since there are less
circuits and processes involved.

The above is true any time you load massive .SET data - not only samples.

However, we are working on improving the
first-time loading, so next OS versions might
show a shorter loading time (not sure of how much
at the moment).
"HOST ports, on the Pa800, are port where you connect Devices; they
work as Hosts (or Master, o A-type connectors), accepting Devices (or
Slaves, or B-type connectors).
- The DEVICE port, on the Pa800, is the one you use to connect Pa800
to a Host (computer); it acts as a Device (Slave, B-type) port, to
connect Hosts (Masters, A-type).

An alternative way of labelling them could have been TO HOST for the
current DEVICE, and TO DEVICE for the current HOST ports. In fact, at
the old times of serial ports, the port to connect a keyboard to a PC
was often labeled TO HOST.

Hope this makes it clear."



------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

But still no real timing data on exactly how long it takes to load 64MB from a HD into RAM. THAT is what you are normally going to do unless you arbitrarily restrict yourself to just loading the internal RAM at the beginning of the gig and leaving it at that......

So, George, will you fully load the PA800's RAM from a USB 2 HD, NOT from the pre-stored FLASH-RAM, and post how long it takes for us here (I AM interested in one of these if the load-up times are fast enough)....

Hi,



hey George, I think there is a misunderstanding regarding USB ports (strange this happened after years of USB connections around):

- USB type A connectors (rectangular) are "Host" or "To Device",
- USB type B connectors (square) are "Device" or "To Host".

Name them as you want, but there is nothing wrong in the Pa800 silkscreen, no question.

Yamaha has decided to name them one way, Korg in another one, but they are definitely, and fortunately, both right.

Hope this help.

Regards.

Yes George, me too interested that how much time it takes a 64mb sample to load into the ram.

By the way, congrats that people on SZ have stared talking on samplers.Day by day pa800
is luring me to buy it.

the largest file I've got in my store is 32 MB. I think I've already posted that the time it takes via a USB jump drive is still as long as with the PA1X and it's internal hard drive. The big difference is the time it takes to load when you turn it off and auto load the same set. From the Jump Drive a 32 MB set takes about 4 or 5 minutes, but on auto power load PCM it takes only 40 seconds.
Paolo, in Italy, who works for Korg says that in the next operating system update they will be attempting to speed up the time it takes to load from the USB port.


------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

"Keyboard:
61 keys with Velocity and Aftertouch"


Can you hear that guys?

That's the sound of my heart sinking....

Is there a 76 option in our future?

I loaded a 61MB set from a USB flash media, it took 10 minutes.

Does anybody know if there is a correct song name list for the songbook on the PA800 instaed of the usual cryptic clues?
Thanks

What on earth is going on with sampler load times....?

10 MINUTES for a 61MB load from flash memory, yet my 10 year old K2500 can do the same thing in ONE! (from a HD... from a CDROM it's about 30% slower) And it is based, especially the sample load section, on the 1990 K2000. 16 years later and things are ten times SLOWER....?

PLEASE...... if you are interested in using samples in an arranger (or any other type of keyboard, from what I can tell), yell, scream, plead and cajole your manufacturer into AT LEAST equaling the load time of a 15 year old sampler....

Moore's Law my ar$e....... (and yes, I know Moore's Law is really about chip densities, but most people use it as a generalization about how much faster and more capable electronics are getting.....!)

If these figures are correct, if the PA800 DID have 512MB of RAM, it would take nearly an hour to load....!

Domenik must have done something right...The Media Station loads 30 mg[as an example]samples in one...too..that is one second..

hellboy44, I am putting off getting the 800 for the same reason - Hoping they'll come out with a "Pro" (78) key version of it. That would be my dream, come true. I've spent a few hours with the 800 and I really like it. I've been playing keys for 25 years. Started off with a toy Casio, moved to a Yammie PSR500 (early 90's?), then got the Roland E-500, and about 4 years ago the Korg Triton Pro (my baby). I've been using the Roland and korg as my double key board setup but now find the Roland tones have gotten outdated. Now I'm seriosuly considering PA800 to douible with my Triton.

Also thought I'll mention my ultimate key rig that I'm working towards.

BTW, I meant "76" key version of the PA800.

For live use:
1. OASIS for all the key stuff (EP's, Pads, strings, sax, flute, brass, elec/ac guitars, etc)
2. Hammond XK3 for organ
3. S90/RD700/Korg SP200 for piano (also setup to control the Ivory Softsynth) - Unable to decide on a piano. Haven't spent ime experimenting I guess.

4. To practice at home without your band as well as to do solo performance or accompanying artists. -- PA 800

5.Last but not least the Continuum - Keyboard controller: http://www.hakenaudio.com/Continuum/

Don't be quick to pass on this controller till you have watched the first demo example by Jordon Rudess (Dream Theater keys players)

Hi Tharshan
Take a look at the Wersi OAS instruments or a Mediastation and you will find that you will not need a multitude of keyboards, as you can do it all with one.
If you still want the Fingerboard then Wersi does an Expander, so that you don’t need to purchase another keyboard.
Enjoy your dreams

Bill

Thanks Abacus. You've introduced me to a whole new world of keyboards! However, personally I find the website and the keyboards look very amatuer and "toy-like" - Though it may not be the case. Looks quite strange. In a way, very ancient looking but then has CDRW, touch screen and a P4 w/1GB RAM! I guess I just feel uncomfortable because it's nothing like what I'm used to. And I wonder what the keys feel like as well as the how the tones sound. I did come across a video clip of a Lambert playing the triple manual Wersi. Does sound pretty good (Let alone looks HOT!) I've never heard or seen this here in Canada. Not sure if there are any local dealers whereI can go and check these out? I would have thought they'll consider making one of the three manuals (the lower 76) weighted! But you've definitely got me thinking!! Just when I thought I had figured out exactly what I need! GRrrr!

Hi Tharshan
If you’re gigging I would recommend the Ikarus as it has 76 Notes and an all aluminium case to reduce weight.
The Abacus is heavier (Built like a Tank) but can easily be expanded to an organ if required. (76 note lower manual, 13 to 25 Note Pedal board)
Like most European manufactures (Including Korg) the keybeds used are made by Fatar.
The sounds you heard on the DVD were of OAS 6 which was released in 2004, all the latest instruments have OAS 7 (Earlier instruments can be upgraded, even the first ones that were released in 2000) which gives a major update in sound quality and versatility, (Particularly the internal voices) and also makes it even easier to use VSTs.
For more details of the OAS systems you can download a magazine here, http://www.worldofoas.co.uk/sample.htm although please bare in mind that there have been many additions since the magazine was released.
The New Open Art Arranger Software is also due out this week, (Another Major Update) which among others allows Direct Play of all Yamaha Styles.
Wersi will be pushing forward their OAS system in 2007, with expansion of their overseas dealerships, however I think the closet to you at present is in the USA, you can check with them at www.wersimusic.com or Germany direct www.wersi.de
Hope this helps

Bill

Thanks Abacus. That was some excellent info! I'm going to have to wait till I can start seeing them locally before I can start making my real impressions about them. Hopefully this will happen sometime in 2007!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Booby:
[B]Hi,

Dear Bill,
With regard to the PSR2000 Vs Korg PA800, could you give me a comparative review on these two? Any information that will help me migrate from PSR2000 to Korg PA800 will be much appreciated.
With sincere thanks,
Marty

Any news on a 76 key option guys?

I need a new Keyboard.

I need 76 keys.


Oh the agony. (Seriously)

Ohhhh...the reality

Hellboy, can you wait? Some of the architectural changes from the PA1XPro to the PA800 are significant (almost double the polyphony for one thing) and a better TOTL Korg arranger may be in the works...

George. We have just returned from the Seven Night Keyboard Festival UK. I agree with your initial report findings on the Pa800.
As I was looking for a new board I spent every night between the evening concerts on the 800 with my reference headphones...one night 1.5 hours.
As you stated this is an outstanding keyboard at it's price point and the voice sample quality up with the E80 & T2 even at this lower price.
OS v1.5 available May will add a number of additions. Drawbars will be active on the Touch Screen and EQ added on speakers and line outputs. John Pacey the Korg demonstrator already had a test version installed.
Finally I was very impressed so have ordered a Pa800.

Congratulations! Good choice

Kind regards,
Tommy

Graham, I was very interested in your report, thanks. This thread has sparked my interest too. While I use my T2 professionally through the church sound system or my Yamaha PA system, I enjoy playing the board at home using the supplied speakers and subwoofer.

Did you get any impression as to how the sound quality would compare just using the internal speakers on the PA800?

Graham FL

PraiseTheLord. All the seven days Festival Korg played every day using on board speakers only. They have a little less power than the PA1X speakers but they are good quality and adequate for home use.

The general construction appears robust without being too heavy and the buttons have a nice click feel. Korg have produced a Free DVD Tutorial, runs for 1hr 15mins which is extremely well done. A lesser video quality of this video can be downloaded from www.korgpa.com

TABLA / Dholak / Dhol Indian Styles, Intros, Fills, Endings for KORG PA800

The first & most important thing is => All the DEMOs are available to listen to each part of each Style, please visit the web site www.melodytracks.com

and download Styles sequence for your PA800 to give my work a TRY

I am offering the full style sequences for the following Indian songs for the keyboard KORG PA800 (applicable to PA1xpro but better make it sure)
 
For the Songs;

= Sau Saal Pehlay (Muhammad Rafi)
= Wo Kaghaz Ki Kashti (Jagjeet Sing)
= Chupke Chupke Raat Din (Ghulam Ali)
= Jhoom Barabar Jhoom (Indian Movie)
= Preto (Abrar-Ul-Haq)
= Dekha Jo Chehra Tera (Arshad Mahmood)
= Baharo Phool Barsao (Rafi)
= Ae Mei Zohra Jabein (Munna Dey)
= Dil Keh Raha Hai Dil Se (Adnan Sami)
= Hamain Tum Se Pyar Kitna (Kishore)
= and many others in the future.......

==========================
The styles I made are exactly according to the song including almost all required parts of the PA800 elements like;

Var 1,2,3,4

Fills 1,2,3,4

Intros 1,2,3,4

Endings

PADS 1,2,3,4

I have stored all the interval musical pieces into Intro 1,2,3,4 buttons of PA800 along with the appropriate style according to the song

I have stored all the bar musical pieces in to PADS 1,2,3,4

So, when you perform the song, you sing with Styles Var1,2,3 or 4 and when you need interval musical piece, just press one of the Intro Butons and the complete and same musical pieces as in the original song will be played automatically, same with Intro2,3,4 and PADS.

So, a full musical band is always which you when performing with my sequences.

Singing Details with my sequences:
===================================

You know, my sequences are NOT like MIDIs or Karaoke where you have to sing at particular point and have to stop at particular point and if you are late you miss it. My sequences are Styles sequences, play the style you want, sing where ever from, sing as long as you want, give gaps if you want and when you need an interval piece, just press Intro, when the musical piece finishes, it will automatically brings you to the main style section where you were singing, do Fills, breaks, Endings etc..

Sing 1000's Songs with these styles
=======================================

Off course, you can sing 1000's of other Indian songs as well using the same style but just don't use Intro button only. You can use Var 1,2,3 or 4, Fills & Endings for any other song where it matches.

Tabla/ Dholak / Dhol Sounds (samples)
=====================================

In all these styles you will hear proper Tabla, Dholak, Dhol sounds according to the styles, you will feel like a live Tabla player is playing with you. But before you load these sequences onto your PA800, you MUST load my DESI/Bhangra Kit in to your PA800. This Kit is a part of this product.

How easy to load DESI/ Bhangra Kit in to PA800?
===============================================

It's very easy and quick, just like 1,2,3 YES I will provide you a file to load into PA800 and it will automatically make a full KIT for you, you don't need to assign each sample one by one, just load the main file, it will do everything for you, then load my styles and Enjoy all the Indian tabla, dholak, dhol samples are already in the kit

Help/ Instructios / Support
============================

All the instruction files are included into the package with very simple Step-by-Step instructions for everything. So, just read these few instruction lines in the PDF files before going ahead. It's very easy quick to understand the instructions. If you still need any help loading the package on to your PA800, I am personally available to help you out on email or on phone.

DEMOs
=======================

Yes, you can have full demos of each and every Styles sequence. The demos include all the sections separately like Intros, Vars, Fills, endings, PADS etc... All the demos are in MP3 format, so you can listen to them just by clicking on it on my Web Site www.MelodyTracks.com , it's very easy www.MelodyTracks.com
==============================================


Download PA800 Format Files (.STY, .PAD)
============================
Please download a complete sequence of songs from the list above. Download it from my Web Site www.MelodyTracks.com and you can load it on to your PA800 and have a Full DEMO, by loading this sequence on to your PA800, you can check how I work, how professional I am and type of Style sequences you can get


[This message has been edited by melodytracks (edited 10-06-2007).]

the answer to both of your questions is yes!
I have a customer here in California who has many custom Indian kits which load tablas, etc. from a USB drive. You can find information from him at the http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=50

------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com