Is there even such a thing today?

When looking for a pro keyboard arranger, are we asking the right questions?
And would answers really give us the true answer?


Shouldn�t we be trying to find out �which keyboard would work best for me?�
To find out this we must find out some things about our: personality, our musical skill level, our technical abilities, our musical taste, what types of keyboards we have had in the pass and what type of OS we are accustom to and what our gigs require.


As helpful as keyboard reviews and forums like this one are, they give the prospective keyboard purchaser a false impression that it is the keyboard that makes the difference. Also you are hearing comments on keyboards based on other people�s passed experience with other keyboards, musical and technical abilities, and willingness to learn something new and to program, musical taste and lots of other things.

I guess I wanted to start this topic after having all the recent discussions about �which keyboard has the better sounds�, �which keyboard has the easiest OS�, �which keyboard manufacturer has the best online demo�.�. And then Fran�s demonstrations that an 8-year old Roland G1000 can still hold its own in today�s market place and DNJ�s most recent thoughts on the Tyros 2 makes me thing that the question is not as simple as �which keyboard is better�.
Also, does �out of the box� sounds and style matter today with all the easiness and editability of onboard sounds and the ability to load samples.

Lets face it, most if not all or the high-end arrangers are probably the same in their ease and difficulty of use.
It just depends on what we have been exposed to, what we are accustom to and how we process information.

So when I hear statements like, �this keyboard has the easiest OS� it really does not tell me anything other than this is what I am used to. It is even worse if you have not spent time with other manufacturer�s keyboard.

Also, generally, the high-end arrangers will have comparable good sounding sounds that will require some tweaking (we have all seen that regardless of manufacture). Just because a manufacture markets a specific type of sound technology or has a great demo on its web page does not automatically mean that it will be good for you.

It is only by spending some time with the instrument (not just 15 minutes in a noisy and distracting keyboard shop) to hear the sounds, see if the ability to tweak sounds and styles to your liking are on that keyboard and see if the OS is something that you can cope with.


Yamaha, Korg, Gem, Roland, Ketron, Wersi, and Lionstracks all have great high-end arrangers. It is up to prospective buyers to physically see, hear and feel the keyboard IN PERSON to get an idea whether or not the keyboard is best for his or her personality, musical skill level, technical abilities, musical taste, what types of keyboards the person has had in the pass and what type of OS the person is accustom to and what the gig requires.

What do you think?

[This message has been edited by to the genesys (edited 06-17-2006).]

[This message has been edited by to the genesys (edited 06-17-2006).]

To the Genesys..I agree with you , except where you killed the Wersi name

To the Geneys

Ahh the refreshing voice of reason, well said.

Jerry

[This message has been edited by Mainer (edited 06-17-2006).]

When the Tyros2 came out I was fascinated by the improved mega voice technology. I purchased the Tyros 2 and used it for one month finding its styles distinctive but not �my sound�. Even with extensive editing (mostly removing) instruments in the styles, I found myself fighting the keyboard so as not to sound too cheesy. I quickly sold it on eBay, and bought a Roland G-70 (for less cost). For the past 5 months I have settled into the Roland G-70. It leaves space for �my sound� as a keyboard player to evolve during performances and my playing seems more musical. I know it�s a personal choice and both are fine instruments.

Tarkingtone ........glad your enjoying your G70...can you post a few G70 tunes for us ...we dont hear many G70 songs on here I would love to hear the KB played live...

Thanx

The openingmessage of this thread has my full support. It is a very good statement.

Targington,
We are the diametrical examples of what has been said by others - "best" is in the eye of the beholder allied with each of our past experiences. I started with the G-70, within several months quit it and moved on to Tyros 2!!!
regards
Keith

no!!!!!!!!!!! my keyboard really is the best . Honest !!!!! The voices in my head told me last night !!!!!

With all the technology available,why is the learning curve sooo difficult on a lot of the new boards?
Very few dealers carry a large variety of boards and so will push the ones they have ,bearing in mind their opinions differ as do ours,thats the good thing about this site,you get more than 1 opinion as opposed to the shops.mike

Personally I find most of the posts informative, I just have to separate the ones who are at war from the ones who are trying to give their opinions. As far as Fran goes, I like the guy and his G1000, I think he adds color to the forum. Now I must decide what color �Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

The best TV, the best Baseball team, the best keyboard, it�s all good.

IMHO, John C.



[This message has been edited by bruno123 (edited 06-18-2006).]

tyros 2 is better by far the styles are brilliant and also the sounds with a little tweeking the tyros 2 is a powerful instroment

tyros man I have to agree the T2 is a hard act to folllow

You are all wrong, my board is the best of all times!!


p.s. my board is an old yamaha 2500 psr 1989 model......

This is a very good topic considering all the banter about whats good and whats better that we have had lately.

I tend to think that anyone of the keyboards of discussion could be played by someone with skill and make all of us say "WOW".

Everybody is different and that is probably why everybody has a different opinion. It certainly is not our resposibility to convert people over to the type of keyboard that we own or prefer. As its been stated before, there is no one keyboard that will meet all the needs of all the people.

Great Thread .


Regards,
Dennis L. Almond
aka...TwoNuts

Best sounding keyboard i have ever tested remains the Tyros2

Hi Genesys,
excellent comment.
I tend to think we all have different requirements of our keyboards.
For a non singer, a vocalizer is totally wasted , yet we're paying extra dollars for it.

Do we need to have a sampler in a keyboard. In a lot of cases probably not. May spend a bit of time playing around with it & end up putting it away into the "too hard" basket.

Does the keyboard have to have every style creation function available onboard, or just the ability to load & tweak a user style?

Main thing is really, do I like the styles on a particular keyboard. Not much point in buying a particular brand in the hope of converting from another brand who's styles you like better.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by to the genesys:
[B]

Pick up a sesame seed but lose sight of a watermelon.

Taike

Strain on a knat, swallow a camel...


I like this game.

Dennis

[This message has been edited by TwoNuts (edited 06-18-2006).]

The flr2006 software arranger system is the best for me (very high quality, reliable, cost effective, flexible (effects, styles & sounds), sounds the best, etc.)..... It could use a better user interface but its not a big deal....I'm used to it.

Oh... Are we still talking keyboards?

It is refreshing to see that we have had some good and diverse opinions on this topic.

Just to be sure, I don�t mean to say that one keyboard may not have features and ways of doing things that may be better and easier than other keyboards.
For example, the Tyros 2 may have SA voices and rootless chord voicing recognition. The Genesys may have a 32 track sequencer and styles with 4 intros, 4 endings 4 fills and 4 variations, the G-70 may have 76 keys, the Wersi may be able to use VSTs and so on.
However, the value of those features on each manufacturer�s keyboard is only valuable to those who need those features. Rootless chord recognition and the ability to play high quality VSTs sounds may be of value and necessary to some but may not mean anything to others and the same thing can be said for a harmonizer, 32 track sequencer, a style creator, 76 keys, CD burner and lots of other features.

Arrangers have come a long way over the pass 10 years. Each manufacturer is trying to out do each other with new and innovative features. Those innovative features may not be wanted by all.

This is why I don�t think there is a universal �best� keyboard from any one manufacturer. It is the individual keyboard player that makes a keyboard the best for his or her self.

Excactly......
"What good is a Full Tool Box.......
If you dont know how to build a house"

My Hohner Clavinet D6 is best for me because I always wanted to be a guitar player.
BEBOP

Hmmmmm! Sounds like having lead in your pencil, but not remembering how to write!

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

From a newbies perspective I am about to buy my first keyboard. I'm exited, passionate and hesitant that I get the most suitable product for my money for me. Reading who thinks what is best and their experiences is great! I check out the posters profile see if they have a web site, listen to any of there music look at other posts by the same user to try and work out their credibility. Similar keyboards are "recommended" and armed with all of this new info I feel a lot more educated before I head out to the retail shops, I have auditioned my list of keyboards and have now narrowed it down to 2. The learning curve is great fun and the forums are part of it.

Just one more thing this web site plays havoc with my PC I go on plenty of other surf, windsurf and yahoo forums and no problems but every time I have used this forum, my web browzer Firefox has frozen up ! everytime !
anyone else have this issue?

Mozilla FireFox has been given a few people here many bad problems also ... I deleted it long ago & stick with MS Explorer!

Easy way is the best, but you must have opportunity for future. Simply changing thinks in future. I like keyboards from past that are also good now with sounds. But for all of us it must be future well known.

Good topic.

What colors many peoples' opinions here depends on their experience as keyboard players.........

Have you ever played in a REAL band?
Have you ever played in a GOOD live band?
Were you the best player in a good live band?

Different (honest) answers to these questions can color your opinion of an arranger.

If you've never played in a full band, you're probably trying to sound like a CD.
If you've played in a live band, that's probably the dynamic you are looking for.
If you weren't the best player in the band, you are probably looking for an arranger that takes care of nearly all the parts for you, and provides inspiring accompaniment.
If you were the best player in the band, you are looking for more supportive, sideman accompaniment, not overwhelming your contribution.

Different needs take different arrangers. None are 'best', just some are 'best' at a particular task.

Far to many Tyros2 owners claim their 'board rules because when they sit down and play it, no matter what skill level they are at, it sounds fantastic. Never mind the fact that the machine is doing nearly all the work - you could virtually get a gig just playing chords and singing, you don't need a right hand at all! You sound just like a CD......... brilliant!

However, for many of you with greater skills, the Tyros' ability to overwhelm you is an obstacle, not a benefit. You want to sound like YOU, not a Tyros.......... You want to sound like a band, NOT a CD..........

But for each type, THEIR choice is the best keyboard. The hard part comes in acknowledging the other's point of view and needs........... Perhaps if we were more honest in posting our skill levels and experience, these pissing contest here would fade to a distasteful memory, and we could get on with the task of helping each other become better MUSICIANS, not keyboard salesmen.

Diki puts
However, for many of you with greater skills, the Tyros' ability to overwhelm you is an obstacle, not a benefit. You want to sound like YOU, not a Tyros.......... You want to sound like a band, NOT a CD..........

Fair comments there, most arranger keyboards especially when using the latter variations can have far too much going off in the accompaniment department to make the styles unuseable, however as with all arrangers you can simply edit the styles or create your own registrations etc so the song you're playing contains as much fancy backing as you the user permits.
I've edited all of the sounds and styles that I use so I have customised my Tyros 2. I know what you mean by saying you want to sound like you and not a Tyros. 2 people who I listen to when I get the chance use the same Tyros 2 presets and other than their different playing abilities sound almost identicle, it gets boring after a while just listening to them.
Each individual should always customise their instrument and develop their own style of playing. What is the point of being a carbon copy of someone else? I loved Vangelis and Jean Michel Jarre when I was young but there is no way I ever wanted to play like either of them, even though I can play all of their songs. I'm perfectly happy with the way I play and always will be. As long as you all continue to enjoy making music it doesn't matter how it's performed, how skilled you are, or what instrument you use. It's when you stop enjoying what you're doing when you should start to worry

Very nicely stated. To save room I didn't reprint the whole post, however, I think it was on target.


Regards,

Dennis L. Almond
aka...TwoNuts

I found Mozilla Firefox to be a big. Extremely large and very slow. I kept having to wait for it to respond, when I opened it. I'm back to MS Explorer as well. Who would have thought that MS makes a better product!!
Starkeeper

Good observations, good analysis and advice, and well said!!

This claim is NOT limited to Tyros2 owners, but owners of all other brands of (Ketron, Korg, GEM, Roland, Casio, etc) ARRANGER style keyboards as well. That said, as a Tyros2 owner myself, I'd never make such an ABSURD claim. Though some Tyros2 owners (and other brand arrangers kb owners as well) may claim even people with minimal keyboard skills (left hand: one finger mode) can create fantastic sounding music on an arranger, in my personal opinion, it takes actually playing the keyboards parts LIVE (both LEFT & RT hands), with the auto accomp merely acting as a supporting rhythm section, plus triggering fills & multipads riffs live, to bring the sound of arranger keyboard performance to a pro sounding performance level, albeit uniquely arranger style own. My background: played piano (since 4), majored in music in college, and performed in bands (as vocalist & keyboardist) for a number of years. The primary reason I switched to one man/duo act arranger entertainment is because it means less hassle (and loss time) for band rehearsals, typical band member personality conflicts, and the ability to take in (for myself) the amt of $ a band would have to share amongst themselves. The unfortunate downside is having to carry the whole show by yourself, and the lack of the musical interaction (music making inspiration between band members) that occurs when playing with pro level musicians. That said, I still enjoy picking up occasional gigs performing with a live band.

Scott

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 06-20-2006).]

I completely agree, Scott, I only offered up the Tyros2 users as the pinnacle of the iceberg, not the entire mass! But you have to admit that, probably the Tyros2 hobbyists have a clear edge in sounding 'CD-like' out-of-the-box compared to, say, a PA1X or G70, and as such, often colors their impression.

It's just that lately the forum seems to be de-evolving to a state of 'mine's bigger than yours' and I thought I'd like to dampen that a little. As is often the case, the more strident the supporter, the lesser the experience level (usually). Most pros will reluctantly admit that probably the best music they heard played wasn't necessarily performed on the latest, greatest technology. It's how you use what you HAVE got that distinguishes the professional.

Remember, the hobbyists expectation of sound and function differ drastically to the pro's....... yet many post here as if their opinion brooks no argument. I would just like to see them 'fess up a bit more about their experience before they opine definitively on the 'best' arranger...... (or why MY choice sucks!!)