Happy New Year All!!!!

Well, I guess I'll begin the New Year the way I left off, coming to all of you folks for help. First, I'd like to thank Uncle Dave and Scott Yee for replying to my e-mails and helping me to get started. Now, I apologize for utilizing the arranger keyboard forum for this, but I think the topic is related to all your work, and I know I'll get reputable answers and suggestions here. If it's a problem, I'll be glad to post elsewhere. So, here goes. I just finished my basement. My plan is to put a home recording studio in. My question for all of you is, How would you do it and what equipment would you select? My purpose is to record sequences and background music for my gigging, as well as produce my own CD's and my groups music. So, where to begin? A computer, drum machines, recording software, a synth...(now I'll really open pandoras box) which one??(only kidding), digital piano, sound modules, Monitor speakers,digital recorder, mixing boards...etc. What are some of your setups?? I realize there are a million variables. I'm just looking for a starting point to do more research and educate myself. Thought this might be fun for all of you and a chance for all of us to get some ideas. It's your chance to spend my $$$ (kind of). Anyhow, thanks for listening.
Regards Brian

Brian,
My sister lives in Sudbury, and I'm overdue for a visit, so just send me the dimentions of the room, and a check for $25,000 and I'll design, deliver and set up your studio for you ! I love doing that !

I'll do it for $24,599[No S&H Green stamps or Arco credit cards]

Hi Brian,

Boy, your question definitely opens up Pandora's box as the options are limitless and everyone's tastes, needs and requirements are different . I'm primarily a performing entertainer/musician and not really a hard core studio techie. My setup is pretty simple but I think it has the essential important recording gear to fullfill my needs.

I record backup sequences/styles (midi) on the arranger keyboard itself (Technics KN5000/ Yamaha PSR2000) and use EMC Styleworks Universal software to convert midi song files into arranger keyboard styles. The great thing about the arranger keyboard is that it's not only a great one man band performance instrument, but it's also a one stop music studio production tool as well. For demos, I record my performance (analog-digital audio) out of the arranger keyboard into my PC (Cakewalk Sonar) or Mac G4 (Logic Audio) via an M-Audio Midiman Delta 66 soundcard. From here you can edit or record more digital audio/midi tracks in and add post efx etc and then burn to CD. My advice is to start with a simple setup of the best 'quality' pieces you can afford, and slowly add as your budget allows and needs require. Start by making sure your source equipment (keyboard, sound modules, microphone) are of the highest quality you can afford, because the end product will always be limited by what you are able to capture at the source (input). Here's are a few other pieces I use and recommend:

Mac G4
Dell Dimension 8200, Pentium 4, 1.8 ghrtz, 512 RAM
Genelec 1029A Near Field Monitors
AKG C3000 Condenser Mic
SoundForge software

Hope this at least gives you some ideas.
It's truly amazing what you can do in a home studio these days. Good luck.

- Scott

My studio is a Sony Minidisk recorder. Just hook it up to outputs on the mixer.
Seriously, you could spend from $200. to $200,000, according to your needs and pocketbook.
I think Uncle Dave has a good one. It might be worth the $25,000 (minus my 15% referral fee of course).
DonM

Listen to Don. I make pretty studios !
( they think I'm kidding !! )

Brian,

My "home studio" really started out (and pretty much still consists) as:

1. Arranger keyboard of some type

2. Fostex X-15 4-track analog (since replaced by Boss BR-8 8-track digital) recorder

3. Kenwood condenser microphone

I don't even use a vocals isolation booth, just my small carpeted den.

That's all you need, every song you will hear on my website(s) was done with the above equipment and my voice. That is IT!!!
http://artists2.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/MR_Bulk/index-1.html
http://artists2.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/Wong_Songs/index-1.html
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/wongsongs_music.htm


------------------
Regards and Aloha,

Charlie
http://artists2.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/Wong_Songs/index-1.html

Hello,

First, select a software to build your system around. There are 4 famous choices:

a) Protools (includes hardware): very expensive in my opinion.

b) Logic: good but I heard it is difficult to use.

c) Sonar from cakewake: easy and reliable BUT does not have all the features and quality of cubase and Logic.

d) Cubase. This is what I use and it is the middle of everything

Second: Select a professional sound card to go with the already selected software. That is a whole topic of research. By the way, "soundblaster live" is NOT professional and if you are planning to do MORE than mere demo, skip all soundblaster products.

Third, A computer that is dedicated only to recording: buy the following:

a) the new P3 1200MHZ (no P4, and no celeron)
b) 512MEGS of RAM (256MEGS min)
c) OS: windows 98SE... no XP and no millenium
d) Two harddrives: I recommend IBM ATA100 7200RPM
e) Plexwriter cdwriter

Fourth, powered speakers.

Fifth, mixer

sixth, good quality mic


I hope this helps.

I just do all edits, efx, on my Psr9000 or in off a floppy in Cake Walk pro. Record Music, Vocals (sing thru keyboard), Harmony on multitracks directly into the P/C using the ACID PRO 3.0 recording program. Take the final mixdown and burn it to CD. Thats all you need to make a decent sounding demo.

good luck

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 01-02-2002).]

Thanks everybody for your reply's. I figured I was beginning a thread that could go on indefinately and would stir up alot of creative choices. Uncle dave, I only have 22$000 saved up....I figure if we drop Don's referal fee...I'm there. Unless Fran will undercut you by 500 bucks again. I actually like the minidisk studio thing.(You guys should do comedy for awhile....it suits you)....anyhow, I'm still interested in other points of view but this is a great beginning...cya around the forum Brian

Oh yeah, one more thing....No one mentioned a drum machine....do you use the arranger drums? Isn't a full realistic sounding drum machine better than the PSR 2000 drums or any other arranger drums for that matter? I mean, if you're laying down a track on a digital recorder, I would imagine one would use a boss, or alesis or roland/yamaha drum machine , right? OK I lied, one more thing...no mention yet of a synth....would it not be a sound assumption that a Roland Rs-9/5, Yamaha S-80/Motif or karma would be useful for laying down quality synthesizer tracks...or do you manipulate the arranger sounds through the PC software? Ok that's all for now Cheers Brian

Hi B2,
I don't know any dedicated 'drum-machine' that sounded better than the latest 'upper-class' arranger keyboards. (mine is the Ketron SD1)

My studio-setup :
a. Ketron (solton) SD1 arranger keyboard
b. Harddisk-recorder VS1880 Roland (great machine)
c. Mixingconsole Mackie 1202VLZ
d. AKG microphone C3000 condensor
e. Yamaha MSP5 powered nearfield speakers
e. PC (Intel P-III 650) with Terratec soundcard. (CubaseVST & Soundforge)

Since I own the SD1 the keyboard recordings are 'live' without the need of midi-editing afterwards.
In fact the PC is only used for mastering with Soundforge and CD's burning.

SK880user is SO right telling Creative Soundblaster cards are NOT professional, most of the cards don't support ASIO and have huge latency delays.
A well priced (hi-class) card is the latest Terratec DMX6fire 24/96 and this one has all connections you want.(about 250 USD)

kind regards,

Roel


[This message has been edited by Roel (edited 01-02-2002).]

Thanks Roel,

great info for sure...I have been educating myself on the PC software....there are many to sift through, but sound forge and Cubase keep making the tops of lists...A buddy of mine just purchased the yamaha awe4416 digital recorder....I had been looking at the Vs1880 at the same time. we have loved recording on the the Yamaha, and it does have some great features, but my budget will most likely push me in the direction of the Roland. I'm glad you are happy with the machine. It has had some fantastic reviews lately. best of luck in 2002 and beyond..Thanks for taking the time to respond Brian

[This message has been edited by B2 (edited 01-02-2002).]

B2,

Here is where people are going to get upset from me.

I sometimes use the arranger styles in professional recording. However, it depends what arranger you are talking about. You have guessed correctly that the Quality of drum samples are important. However, the way it is arranged, is also important to give you a sense of realism.

For example, Yamaha Styles are one of the best for they are well-arranged. However, they are not fit in my humble opinion for professional recording because they sound like coming from an arranger keyboard. They are good for performance but not professional recording. When you want to record a song based on a style, you want each part of the automatic style to sound as unique and distinct from other so that it gives you an impression that each track was recorded separately for the musician ear. And it sounds that it played by live musician on an real acoustic instrument for the public ear (who are not musicians.) NOT YAMAHA! but SK880 gives you this. However, Yamaha styles are better than SK880!

Let me elaborate on this by giving you an extreme example: You do not want the drums of the style to continue to play in its normal variation pattern WHILE it is playing the fill-in. Clearly, a real drummer will not do that. Now, almost all keyboards have figured out this by now.

You want each track of the auto-style to have a sense of independence of other tracks. There are so many other point of view. To my well-trained ear, I reject any recording of mine in which I detect auto-accompaniment. So you will find me, in so many sessions, deleting the auto bass track and record my own manual bass.

Some are even more senitive during performance and will play their own manual bass, like Uncle Dave does. For me, during auto-style performance, I am so busy doing other things, I do not have time for anything on the left hand other than playing the actual chord.

I second the AKG C3000B choice.

I believe it is an excellent price and sounds very good on vocals, especially female vocals.

I own:

C3000B
TLM103
BLUE dragonfly

My sister liked the dragonfly best on her voice. But she liked C3000B more than TLM103 on her voice. You cannot go wrong with C3000B. (That made me think about trying AKG 414-Tl2 one of these days.) I never had luck with Audio-technica mics when others like them.

I 3rd the AKG C3000 choice.

I used the AKG C3000 condenser mic for all the song demos on my website.

I currently run Cakewalk Sonar XL on the PC. I've been a longtime devotee of Logic audio on the Mac and actually think Logic is really not difficult to learn or use at all. The older versions of Logic were difficult to figure out (steep learning curve) but the current version is really user friendly and easy to learn. Logic has the slickest user interface (imho).

- Scott http://scottyee.com

My home studio consist of Roland G1000 and E-600.The rest is pretty much computer based..I have Power tracks and Cakewalk9[use PT most of the time], and for recording, I use Acid Pro 3 and Sound forge..For Hammond, the B4 is unbeatable[software]..Everthing is mixed down with effects[plug ins] and burned to CD[All with in the computer[P3 running 98 Second edition]...This setup will let you save the other 20 grand plus....

You guys are too much, lots of good stuff to digest, but here is the $1,000,000 question....I am sensing that there are 2 schools in this home recording business...1. PC based and 2. digital recording/analoge. PC based has all the effects and mixing/editing/mastering embedded in it. Digital recording such as with the VS series or AWE 4416 or similar products have some effects on board, can be enhanced with effect boxes/modules, and can be mastered/mixed and a CD burned with an additional recorder or in some cases a built in one. Next question, do you ever mix the process??? Example, record on a digital recorder, and then mix and master on a PC or visa verse. Are there advantages to one over the other, or is it like synths and arrangers....it's all what you,re comfortable with and can afford.....I can see a problem taking a digital recorded sequence and going to a PC because wouldn't there be a difference in the sound levels that are dependent on the sound card and speaker quality...how do you regulate this effort and not basically amplify something that has been amplifed? And by the way...what the heck is Latency???? I am ashamed of my inability to look it up in the dictionary...But I fear I would not understand anyhow....Keep those calls and letters coming sports fans..brian

Brian,You can mix and match.The Roland Hardware is great and complete.Latency,has two meanings,the first,the time delay[audio card],signal from a midi controller to the audio[wave],via the sound card[direct drivers virtually make this acceptable]. This is only a problem when you mix a realtime part with a recorded part[audio].The second example,Latency is that period of time when a expected advent is late[And your wife is very miserable][baby makes3?],

so Fran.......DaraLynn was a surprise?????
You rascal, you !

Was not Dara,it was Darren..

Hello all,

Well, it took me about 3 years to put together my home studio, I asked the same questions on different forums and news groups and got really good responses, based on those responses and a lot of research, this is the setup that I now have:

PC: PIII, 850Mhz, 512MB RAM, two hard drives (one for audio only and the other for applications), Plextor CD burner, Windows 98SE.

Audio/Midi interface: ECHO Gina for audio and Midiman 4x4 USB for MIDI.

Software: Cakewalk Proaudio 9.0 for midi and digital audio sequencing. Cubase is pretty good too. I use SoundForge 5.0 and Cool Edit Pro for mastering.

Synths: Roland XP60 and PSR640, I orderd 9000pro two days ago, looking forward to get it sometime next week. I use Roland MDB-01 for bass and some drum sounds (very realistic bass sounds!)

Mixer: This is probably the most important piece of equipment in your setup, I think. I currently have Yamaha O1V digital mixer, this is probably the best investment I have made. Excellent piece of gear with 16 channels expandable to 24. Awesome effects, decent compressors and pre-amps. You could go the analog route but you will end up paying more for a decent mixer and effects combined. If you do decide to go analog, I would suggest Mackie. You could also use your computer for mixing but I like out board mixers.

MIC: As everyone suggested go for AKG3000, it is an awesome overall mic. Another good one is Rode NT1, which is probably cheaper than AKG.

Mixdown: I currently use Tascam CDRW700 cd recorder for mixdowns, you could use your computer to do that, but again, I like doing it this way since I can mix on to a CDRW and listen to it a few times to decide whether I want to keep the mix or mix it again. For a while I was using different minidisc decks, they were pretty good, but there was definitely some loss in sound quality.

Monitors:
I use Alesis Montor 2. There are a bunch of good ones. If your budget permits, go for Mackie monitors.

I am in the process of sound proofing my home studio. The thing I like about my setup is that once all the instruments are connected to the mixer it is all digital and there is practically no loss in the sound quality. Hope it helps.

Harosha,

Thanks so much for taking the time to respond with such detail. There's nothing like ideas from people who have "been there and done that". I get so much from reading other peoples lessons learned and recommendations. I don't expect you all to make my decisions for me, but having a whole bunch of ideas and opinions really points me in the right direction and gets me started in the education process. Did you ever consider a digital recorder? seems like alot of people utilize the mixer then feed it into a PC. I take it the effects on the mixer are retained in the PC when you transfer it. Would it not also be possible to record directly into your PC and then add the same effects with one of the software programs you already have? I also notice you master with sound forge and cool edit. Why not mix with these also.? What about outboard mixers do you like better than the software? If you have time, feel free to shoot back. If not, thanks again for your complete answer. By the way, Your set up must be effective because I just listened to the MP3's of your new album on your web page...awesome stuff...it really sounded great...Love those eastern instruments!!!Best of Luck in your future endeavors Brian

[This message has been edited by B2 (edited 01-03-2002).]

Thanks B2 for checking out my site. No, I really never considered a digital recorder, the reason is that the computer based recorders are so easy to upgrade and are a lot more powerful depending on what kind of software and hardware you are using. You can upgrade the software, get bigger hard drive, add more RAM, add a faster burner. I guess it is a matter of preference and budget too.

I normally record dry audio tracks into cakewalk (no effecs), then I apply effects during mixdown, either with in cakewalk, or from my mixer, what ever sounds good.

The reason behind using an outboard mixer is that it is really easy with all the knobs and faders etc... again it is a matter of preference, you should be able to achieve the same results directly within the PC as well. Same thing with the mixdowns, you really don't need an out board deck to do mixdowns, computer is just as good. I like to do a few different versions of my mixes on re-writable cds before I decide to keep the one that I really like and then send that one to PC for further processing.

Well, I'm beginning to see what Scott said earlier (Pandoras Box), this is truly an open ended subject with endless combinations. It seems many of you and others I have read about in the home recording arena prefer to record directly into your computers via sound card, and then the variations abound. Some mix/edit/master all within a specific software. Others record, lets say with cakewalk, then mix and edit/master with sound forge. Still others record into sound forge or cakewalk and then send the rough data to a mixer to mix down, then in some cases back to the computer for a final scrub. It appears that some software is better at mastering and mixing than others, yet some are better for recording at times. Great Scott...my mind is a blur....but strangley enough, this appears to make sense....I guess it's alot like flying fighters, we all will fly the same mission, but utilize different computer modes and heads up display settings to optimize the way our individual brains analyze the data. everyone 's brain takes a different path to draw the same conclusions, in our world, the conclusion is the music on the CD. Thanks for all your inputs and ideas. If there are any last words, please send em my way. If not, I'll see you all on another thread. B2

Brian,

just a few things...

Adding dbx 286A to the signal path of the AKG 3000 gave me a quit a bit more control over the signal. It has a mic preamp with phantom power, a high pass filter, a compressor, a de-esser, an enhancer, and an expander/gate.

The set up I had was not a noisy one (the signal path was AKG 3000 -> dbx 286A -> Mackie 1402 VLZ Pro -> YAMAHA SW1000XG) but the noise was not zero either. Behringer denoiser improved S/N significantly. It has two denoisers (more like noise masks). I inserted one between the preamp and the compressor in dbx 286A and the other at the insert point of Mackie 1402 VLZ Pro.

Also, if you are going for a PC set up, make sure you don't connect any slow drives like zip's to the same IDE connector to which the hard disk, onto which you dump .wav files, is connected. Doing so may degrade the perfomance really badly.

BTW, AKG C3000 seems to have been the choice for almost everybody. If I remeber correctly AKG redesigned C3000 and it is now C3000B.

What I like about out board gear is the ease of control in real time. What I like about on-board hardware and software is the ability to save almost every setting in your project file.

Happy New Year and Happy Recording!

Shiral

Shiral,
Thank you!!!! As of this time, I don't know what the heck you just said to me...but soon, I will. It's this kind of info that is valuable to a beginner like me. It's fun learning the terminology and technical end of things. It sends me down yet another path towards understanding this whole business. I noticed the AKG 3000 was quite popular, and yes, the newest edition of the mike is the "b"model. Best of luck to you. Happy New Year B2

Brian,

Sorry, I did not mean to confuse you. Sure, you'll soon understand what I said. There will always be somebody to help learn something.

Good luck!
Shiral

I like the Aardvark Direct Pro 24/96 audio card. You don't need an outboard mixer with this. You can plug an XLR mic in and get phantom power too! You can monitor your voice and get reverb, compression, and eq without putting it in the mix. It also has a headphone output and midi in and out.

Larry

For my two cents worth I'm of the Mr. Bulk line of thinking (with a bit of Scott Yee thrown in). Here's my set-up.

Korg i30, in which I carefully build the whole backing track. This then feeds out to my trusty old Tascam 244 on Track 1 (true, once it's in there I've no room for manoeuvre; that's why I take time with the initial building of the backing in the i30). The I add the lead vocal with my EV stage mic on Track 2 and any harmonies on Track 3 by using my Korg ih, playing along in real time with all the voices muted on the i30. Next I balance the backing/vocal mix and put all the vocal on to a regular cassette (I'm a bit old school, I don't have a CD burner) via an Alesis Microverb. It's all a little 'Jurassic', but it works for me.

This sort of thing is always a 'dreams vs. wallet' exercise anyway. But no matter what, it's fun, and there's no price on that.