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#170317 - 04/15/07 02:25 PM Re: What's going on? (sign of the times..possibly)
freddynl Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/17/99
Posts: 1150
Loc: netherlands
MY KURZ K 2600 S STILL RULES
_________________________
Keyboards/Sound Units: Kurzweil 2600S, Roland VR-760, Acces Virus C, Roland G-800, Akai AX60, Minimoog, Machine Drum, Roland R8-M, mediastation x-76

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#170318 - 04/15/07 03:49 PM Re: What's going on? (sign of the times..possibly)
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 42496
Diki.....I hear ya and concur.....
Not myself...I am talking for the average general KB masses...there are more that
"Don't know" how vs "Do Know" out there .

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#170319 - 04/15/07 09:53 PM Re: What's going on? (sign of the times..possibly)
renig Offline
Member

Registered: 02/20/00
Posts: 643
Loc: Canada
Wow, I can't believe I've read through this entire thread.

My first synth was a Minimoog back in the 70's - still have it. That thing is a breeze to operate simply because it has real knobs to twiddle. Getting into endless screens and buttons on these modern units just doesn't interest me much. I have a comfort level with the ol' Moog, and a lot of the sounds I hear people trying to achieve are all there in the mini (seems to me that 'phat'= moog bottom end).

If you want a good education in the basics, get hold of an old Moog, ARP, or Prophet. Then, if you are of a mind to, move on to the new synths, etc.

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#170320 - 04/16/07 12:50 AM Re: What's going on? (sign of the times..possibly)
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
If you have a passable computer, there are some wonderfully accurate emulations of Minimoogs and other classic synths. You can learn a LOT about programming from messing with these, at a fraction of the cost of a real Moog or ARP.....

There are even a bunch of pretty decent FREE soft synths out there, and you can learn your programming chops for free! And if you want to get the full knob twiddling your heart out experience, there are some very affordable MIDI knob controllers you can map to control the soft synths.

Don't hold off just because you think you couldn't possibly afford some of the original classic synths....

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#170321 - 04/16/07 02:32 AM Re: What's going on? (sign of the times..possibly)
Graham UK Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/20/01
Posts: 1879
Loc: Lincolnshire UK
Fortunately even at my age I have never had a problem learning a new boards OS, but in fairness I know many, many people can't grasp learning a new OS. The older one gets the more difficulty it becomes, so you youngsters have all that to come.
A Tutorial DVD would immediately solve this problem.

You only have to read the daily forums to see all the questions the owners are confused about because they can't obtain the info required from the manual.

The main obstacle is people tend to stick with the OS they are accustomed and comfortable with, so stay with YXXX Brand or whatever they feel secure with. Unfortunately they may be missing out on a better quality keyboard.
Different brand OS's are just a different route to get you to the same place and time is well spent learning a new system,

Nobody is asking how to play these boards or even drive a car !!!!, if all the manuals were written by users and not the R & D departments things would be better and more informative.



[This message has been edited by Graham UK (edited 04-16-2007).]

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#170322 - 04/16/07 10:32 AM Re: What's going on? (sign of the times..possibly)
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Well, that's the difference between a manual, and a tutorial. Many confuse the role of the two....

But you often get a Quick Start guide (I know Roland do) and often this is quite informative, and more tutorial in nature.

To be honest, if most people would approach learning a new OS methodically, rather than shot-gunning themselves with everything immediately, to try and regain their familiarity with their old arranger as fast (or faster!) than possible, things would be a little easier.

Rather than go 'Today I want to play an entire tune', you go 'Today, I'll just learn how to call up styles', and learn all the different ways to do just that one thing, with all the differences memorized for each method (registration, free panel, tempo hold, etc.). Then the next day it's 'Today I'll learn how to call up the Voices'. Rinse and repeat...

Taken this way, a completely new OS is FAR easier to learn. But confusing yourself with too much information for the sake of instant gratification is a sure way to frustrate yourself.

And never forget just how long it took you to get truly familiar with your old OS. You REALLY ought to expect any new OS (unless related by manufacturer) to take at least as long, and probably longer. You've got to forget your old way AND learn totally new capabilities your old arranger never had. I think many people forget the months they spent mastering their old arranger, and expect to master a new one in weeks (or even days!) and end up going 'This new arranger sucks!', when in fact it is their patience that sucks!

Just be patient and methodical, and realistic about your learning abilities, and it will come together. Just not as fast or as easy as you would like!

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#170323 - 04/16/07 11:28 AM Re: What's going on? (sign of the times..possibly)
Graham UK Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/20/01
Posts: 1879
Loc: Lincolnshire UK
Diki. I agree with your comments. As I have already stated I do not personally have a problem learning a new OS.
Manufactures are losing sales do to the fact that just as you stated. owners will not or do not want to spend time with a new OS, so they sell it very quickly and they stick with the Y brand, not because it's better, but because they get frustrated by a new way of doing things.

I say well done to Korg for providing the Video Tutorial on the PA800 \ PAX. Also well done Roland for the Raph Shink Tips & Tricks. These do very much give owners the benefit to learn the route around their valuable purchase.

PS. The New Roland Forum & Site is looking good.

[This message has been edited by Graham UK (edited 04-16-2007).]

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#170324 - 04/16/07 11:53 AM Re: What's going on? (sign of the times..possibly)
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 42496
Another take on this is without much educational material on products does agravate buyers to the point of selling in frustration....which in turn =
More Sales......so it could be a subliminal plan by manufacturers to make more money or just as it is to repackage old parts into new units just to unload inventory & just leach people along never giving TOO Much at once

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#170325 - 04/16/07 01:00 PM Re: What's going on? (sign of the times..possibly)
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Some of it is also the tendency to 'More, more, more' (thank you, Andrea True Connection!), and we end up buying a Lamborghini or Maserati, when we can truely only drive a Ford Focus well.

Truth is, unless you are willing to spend a LOT of time (even really experienced pros need quite a bit of time to master a TOTL arranger) to master a T2 or E80, you may be a lot happier knowing you are getting more from a mid-line arranger, rather than know very little about your TOTL arranger's capabilities.

Master what you have first, and THEN look around for better capabilities... There are SO many people that get a TOTL, and then don't have a clue about voice editing, but the truth is, it was on their old arranger too, they just never used it! Now it's a 'feature' on their latest acquisition, they feel they should somehow magically understand it, and it's the manufacturer's fault they don't (or at least provide a DVD so they can), but the truth often is, they really should already know this stuff by the time they graduate to a TOTL beast....

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 04-16-2007).]

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#170326 - 04/16/07 01:35 PM Re: What's going on? (sign of the times..possibly)
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 42496
Dike....good post .....I would like to add aside from peoples mindset that they have to have the best....more then many only use a few features & are very happy without ever even knowing what their high priced purchase holds inside and dont care either....for example many buy the T2 & dont even sing ....so there goes a great feature never used ...get my point? Most want to play, with great sounds and styles that's it! maybe they should make a Pro sounding simple arranger with Top notch basics styles, sounds, mic/vocalizer, & that's it?

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