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#169039 - 08/09/07 12:21 PM The Ultimate Arranger Keyboard
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hammond w/MIDI and a Genesys XP


Dave

------------------
Wm. David McMahan
Nat'l Product and Support Manager
Generalmusic USA
GEM Community Forums


[This message has been edited by WDMcM (edited 08-09-2007).]

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#169040 - 08/09/07 12:26 PM Re: The Ultimate Arranger Keyboard
Diki Online   content


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14173
Loc: NW Florida
Nice... (though I still think you need a 76 for a good piano part - be nice if the reverse keys could be used as regular ones).

Ian... any weight comment? And you thought my G70 was heavy...
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#169041 - 08/09/07 12:50 PM Re: The Ultimate Arranger Keyboard
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43700
Nice Rig baby!! Sweeeeeeeeet !

Any Demos? I'd like to hear what that module can do if you can?

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 08-09-2007).]

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#169042 - 08/09/07 12:58 PM Re: The Ultimate Arranger Keyboard
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5336
Loc: English Riviera, UK
But a B3 with a Kurzweil Sampling Keyboard and a Wersi EX 1 Expander is even better.

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#169043 - 08/09/07 01:45 PM Re: The Ultimate Arranger Keyboard
Diki Online   content


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14173
Loc: NW Florida
But a B3 with Jimmy Smith behind it is even better, yet....

Doesn't need a single thing extra...

I see in the picture the drumkit in the background. What more do you need? Why an arranger if you have a drummer?

A B3, a drummer, and a bass player if your feet aren't that good... Why gild the lily?

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 08-09-2007).]
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#169044 - 08/09/07 02:27 PM Re: The Ultimate Arranger Keyboard
zuki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 4709
Quote:
Originally posted by abacus:
But a B3 with a Kurzweil Sampling Keyboard and a Wersi EX 1 Expander is even better.

Bill


Talk about "Mine is better than yours"
_________________________
Live: Korg PA4X/Zed 6FX/EV Everse 8s/Senn 935/K&M stand

Studio: Korg PA4X/Yamaha DGX670/Boss BR900CD/Tascam DP24SD/MTM Iloud/Senn 935/K&M stand/Shure SM57 studio

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#169045 - 08/09/07 02:31 PM Re: The Ultimate Arranger Keyboard
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well, the real reason I had the Genesys XP there was to have some extra sounds. Some of the songs we do work better with some strings, piano, vibes, etc. In the past I have placed a pRP800 or Genesys Pro S on top of the organ but frankly I feel having another keyboard sitting on top of a B3 takes away from the aesthetics. Why cover up any of that beautiful wood. So the Genesys XP was just an easy way of having access to a bunch of sounds that were easily accessible without having to spend time programming preset changes, volumes, etc. into the organ.

On the other hand, during sound check I thought it would be fun to call up a style and see how it felt to control things from the organ. So I set the MIDI Mode on the Genesys to accordion (which quickly sets the instrument up to receive on separate channels for auto-chord, live bass and live solo sounds). On the organ, I set the bass pedals to control the bass sound from the module and played that live, I set the lower manual to control auto-chords and used the top manual to play solo sounds from the Genesys XP or organ. It took about a minute and a half to set that up and then I played a few tunes. It was a real blast and worked great. I may try to book some singles like that. What the heck.

But then, I do agree with Diki that all you really need is the B3 and a good drummer. I have kicked pedals since I was 15 (that makes over 30 years) so a bass player is not necessary. My group does consist of keys, a sax player, drummer and bass player. But throughout the night the sax and bass would lay out and it was just me and the traps baby!!!

The drummer recorded last night and if the recording turned out well and doesn't have too much background noise I'll post a cut of two once I get them.

Best Regards,

Dave

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#169046 - 08/09/07 06:23 PM Re: The Ultimate Arranger Keyboard
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Great setup....looking at it makes my palms sweaty and my back ache at the same time.

This is obviously a permanent install, and a wonderful way to play the B.

My B3 was a 1957 model with a cherry finish, and I was crazy enough to have two matching Leslie 147RVs to haul around with it as well...and yes, Diki, I certainly don't miss the weight.

Dave, you are a lucky guy to have such a convenient venue.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#169047 - 08/09/07 06:26 PM Re: The Ultimate Arranger Keyboard
kbrkr Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 2866
Loc: Tampa, FL
I want one....
_________________________
Al

Pa4x - LD Systems Maui 28 - Mackie Thumps

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#169048 - 08/09/07 06:29 PM Re: The Ultimate Arranger Keyboard
ViLo Offline
Member

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 461
Loc: Dallas Tx., USA
Quote:
Originally posted by kbrkr:
I want one....



I don't want to be the one carrying it to gigs!!


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#169049 - 08/09/07 09:15 PM Re: The Ultimate Arranger Keyboard
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:
Great setup....looking at it makes my palms sweaty and my back ache at the same time.

This is obviously a permanent install, and a wonderful way to play the B.

My B3 was a 1957 model with a cherry finish, and I was crazy enough to have two matching Leslie 147RVs to haul around with it as well...and yes, Diki, I certainly don't miss the weight.

Dave, you are a lucky guy to have such a convenient venue.

Ian


Believe it or not, I have hauled this to and from the gig for the past three Wednesday's and will probably do it again next week. It's not so bad with the organ dollies; I pick one end up and set it on the trailer floor and then pick the other end up and roll it the rest of the way in. Actually the 122 is the hard part.

Something I will point out, this is an XB3 (about 170 pounds). My B3 (at about 320 pounds) stays at home.

The XB3 is very cool in that it can transmit on four separate MIDI channels per manual and pedal board including velocity curves, program changes, etc, those channels can be zoned across the keyboard, both manuals are velocity sensitive and have aftertouch, the Leslie Chorale/Vibrato lever can be used as a modulation wheel (and you can still kick in the Leslie with a panel switch or toe switch mounted on the expression pedal. There are 'Pedal to Lower' and 'Lower to Pedal' coupler switches, and MIDI transmission can be turned off and on per manual and pedal board via front panel switches.

Dave

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#169050 - 08/10/07 03:50 AM Re: The Ultimate Arranger Keyboard
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Ahhhh...certainly a much lighter instrument...more bulky than heavy...still, stairs must still present an issue.

My Leslie 147RVs weren't light either.(groan)

I used to use a Roland Rhythm 77 analog drum machine with mine when I wanted to do the solo/duo thing using pedals....state of the art in it's day...

That sure is a cool instrument.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#169051 - 08/10/07 05:59 AM Re: The Ultimate Arranger Keyboard
kbrkr Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 2866
Loc: Tampa, FL
LOL, who said I was leaving the studio....I just want to quit my job and play that baby all day, every day. They can just dust around me!!!

I'm sooooo jealous.

Quote:
Originally posted by ViLo:

I don't want to be the one carrying it to gigs!!

_________________________
Al

Pa4x - LD Systems Maui 28 - Mackie Thumps

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#169052 - 08/10/07 07:14 AM Re: The Ultimate Arranger Keyboard
cassp Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/21/03
Posts: 3748
Loc: Motown
When I hit the Lotto, baby... jealous ain't the word. I agree; that is the ultimate arranger setup. Thanks for sharing. Any chance we can all drive out and drool at it?
_________________________
Riding on the Avenue of Time
cassp50@gmail.com

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#169053 - 08/10/07 07:49 AM Re: The Ultimate Arranger Keyboard
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by cassp:
Any chance we can all drive out and drool at it?


Hey, the more the merrier! Plus I'd love to have someone else play it so I could see how it sounds out front.

Next Wednesday the 15th and we start at 7pm. Come on down!

The Avenue Lounge
411 Madison Avenue
Covington, KY 41011
Phone: 859-261-6120

Dave

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#169054 - 08/10/07 10:41 AM Re: The Ultimate Arranger Keyboard
Diki Online   content


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14173
Loc: NW Florida
Worst (and probably most dangerous) experience of my musical life...?

Trying to get a B3 up a flight of outside steel stairs to an upstairs nightclub, after a snowstorm. Three of us lifting, but the other two had more sense than to be at the bottom!

One slip, and I would have been raspberry jam..!

Happy days.... NOT!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#169055 - 08/10/07 01:08 PM Re: The Ultimate Arranger Keyboard
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Just think about the "poor" Hammond salesman, that hauled around a Hammond for home sales visits....besides location exposures[Super markets etc)...Dummy me

Good old days..Not[taken from Diki}
_________________________
www.francarango.com



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#169056 - 08/10/07 02:36 PM Re: The Ultimate Arranger Keyboard
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Fran Carango:
Just think about the "poor" Hammond salesman, that hauled around a Hammond for home sales visits....besides location exposures[Super markets etc)...Dummy me

Good old days..Not[taken from Diki}


Hi Fran,

Please note that I am not picking on you or your post.

I must say that that sitting behind a modern single manual keyboard playing a Hammond type sound is not even remotely close the the feeling (and sound) you get when sitting behind the real thing. Don't get me wrong, I am thrilled with the advancements that have been made in keyboards over the years and for many gigs a single keyboard can get the job done quite well. But I still have a great deal of appreciation for the real thing and intend to use it whenever possible. And even though in the good old days it took a van and a half to haul my keyboard set-up alone and a good two hours to set it up, I still would love to go back to those days. I kind of equate it to playing in a big band or an orchestra. To say that you get the same sound and sense of raw acoustic energy from a single keyboard versus sitting in the middle of the brass, woodwinds, and/or string sections would be ridiculous.

Dave

[This message has been edited by WDMcM (edited 08-10-2007).]

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#169057 - 08/10/07 03:52 PM Re: The Ultimate Arranger Keyboard
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6690
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Quote:
Originally posted by WDMcM:

I must say that that sitting behind a modern single manual keyboard playing a Hammond type sound is not even remotely close the the feeling (and sound) you get when sitting behind the real thing.

------------------------------

I still would love to go back to those days.
Dave

[This message has been edited by WDMcM (edited 08-10-2007).]


Hear, hear (but with a roadie, of course). BTW, Dave. I would "kill" for that "B3" (clone or not, it's so purrrrrty) so watch your back .

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#169058 - 08/10/07 06:27 PM Re: The Ultimate Arranger Keyboard
Taike Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 2814
Loc: Xingyi, Guizhou (China)
Quote:
Originally posted by WDMcM:
Hi Fran,

[b]Please note that I am not picking on you or your post.


I must say that that sitting behind a modern single manual keyboard playing a Hammond type sound is not even remotely close the the feeling (and sound) you get when sitting behind the real thing. Don't get me wrong, I am thrilled with the advancements that have been made in keyboards over the years and for many gigs a single keyboard can get the job done quite well. But I still have a great deal of appreciation for the real thing and intend to use it whenever possible. And even though in the good old days it took a van and a half to haul my keyboard set-up alone and a good two hours to set it up, I still would love to go back to those days. I kind of equate it to playing in a big band or an orchestra. To say that you get the same sound and sense of raw acoustic energy from a single keyboard versus sitting in the middle of the brass, woodwinds, and/or string sections would be ridiculous.

Dave

[This message has been edited by WDMcM (edited 08-10-2007).][/B]


That's what I've been saying all the time, Dave. I very much doubt that even B4 will get you the same. There's just no substitute playing the "genuine" thing. There's more than just the sound as well. There's waterfall keys. A must!! I wish every keyboard and organ came with them. It should be the LAW!

Watch out for Chas. He MEANS it!

Taike
_________________________
最猖獗的人权侵犯 者讨论其他国 家的人权局势而忽略本国严重的人权 问题是何等伪善。

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#169059 - 08/11/07 07:45 AM Re: The Ultimate Arranger Keyboard
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by cgiles:
Hear, hear (but with a roadie, of course). BTW, Dave. I would "kill" for that "B3" (clone or not, it's so purrrrrty) so watch your back .

chas


Nah, don't need a roadie! It really isn't all that bad when using dollies. I get it in and out of the trailer by myself without much strain at all. The Leslie is actually the piece that requires some effort. Now If I was trying to move my original B3 it would never happen. That's what is so nice about having the XB3 since it weighs a little over half as much as a B3 but still has the sound. After all it is a Hammond.

If anyone is interested, here is a link to a review of the XB3 that I found on the web; http://www.hammond-organ.com/reviews/xb3_review.htm

Dave

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#169060 - 08/11/07 07:50 AM Re: The Ultimate Arranger Keyboard
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6690
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Yeah, sadly I can only justify something like the Nord C1. Unfortunately, there are none to demo in the Atlanta area. Has anyone played one? Impressions? The demos sound good and feedback from their forum is also overwhelmingly positive. Dan0 or George, can either of you get these things? Cheaper than 2800 beans? Would also need complimentary amp, foot pedals (more than 13, less than 25), and a good wide-range expression pedal.

Recommendations appreciated.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#169061 - 08/11/07 10:22 AM Re: The Ultimate Arranger Keyboard
Diki Online   content


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14173
Loc: NW Florida
I tried an XB3 recently, and couldn't really get over how different the keybed felt compared to just about every real B3 I've played. Now, possibly, it might 'bed in' after a while, but if realism to the nth degree is what you are after, just the touch of that thing puts it far from fooling you that you are playing the 'real thing'...

Just my opinion...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#169062 - 08/11/07 10:52 AM Re: The Ultimate Arranger Keyboard
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
I tried an XB3 recently, and couldn't really get over how different the keybed felt compared to just about every real B3 I've played. Now, possibly, it might 'bed in' after a while, but if realism to the nth degree is what you are after, just the touch of that thing puts it far from fooling you that you are playing the 'real thing'...

Just my opinion...


Yes, the keybed is slightly tighter than an original B3 but not to the point of it being a detriment by any means. There is the added bonus that both the upper and lower manual are not only velocity sensitive but also have aftertouch which can not only be used for controlling external MIDI gear but can also be used for some pretty nice functions right inside the XB3. Like having the ability to morph from one drawbar preset to another via key pressure. Or having the percussion respond to velocity. True the purist isn't going to find these attractive attributes, but then again I am a purist but also into technology so I can see some real uses for these types of features in certain circumstances.

Is the sound exactly like an original B3? Which one, there are how many B3's out there? And they all sound a little or a lot different depending on age, wiring, tubes, speaker system, etc. So yeah, it has that classic Hammond sound.

Back to the key feel; Joey DeFrancesco and other serious Hammond players don't seem to have a problem with the key feel of the newer Hammond's.

Dave

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#169063 - 08/11/07 12:19 PM Re: The Ultimate Arranger Keyboard
Jerry T Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/23/05
Posts: 1002
Loc: Phila. 'burbs, Pa. USA
Pete Spina told me that Joey D. has 12 B3's at his home in Scottsdale. When he appeared in Philadelphia with Pete's big band, If I'm not mistaken, he had a GEM keyboard sitting on top of the B3. It makes sense, since the Hammond Center that provided Joey's B3 is also a GEM dealer. By the way, being orignally from Norristown, Pa. and growing up about a block away From Jimmy Smith, I got to hear a lot of B3 music as a kid. I never met him, as by the time I became aware that such good music existed, he was on the road. But I heard miles and miles of reel to reel tape recordings thanks to his father ,Clarence. With that, I must say that I never heard anyone play with the facility of Joey D.
Ciao,
Jerry

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#169064 - 08/11/07 12:27 PM Re: The Ultimate Arranger Keyboard
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43700

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#169065 - 08/11/07 02:36 PM Re: The Ultimate Arranger Keyboard
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5336
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Joey DeFrancsco article

http://download.yousendit.com/2471E2C86DA98476

[This message has been edited by abacus (edited 08-11-2007).]

[This message has been edited by abacus (edited 08-12-2007).]
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#169066 - 08/11/07 05:23 PM Re: The Ultimate Arranger Keyboard
mikeathome1 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 1208
Loc: Syracuse NY
Quote:

Quote:

Just a thought and I'm not picking on anyone but when we post a link can we describe what it is? I don't know if I wanna go to youtube if it is something that doesn't interest me. So I usually don't follow the links.
thanks
_________________________
qqqwq@hotmail.com

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#169067 - 08/12/07 01:19 AM Re: The Ultimate Arranger Keyboard
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5336
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Quote:
Originally posted by mikeathome1:
Quote:
Originally posted by abacus:
[b] http://download.yousendit.com/2471E2C86DA98476

Quote:

Just a thought and I'm not picking on anyone but when we post a link can we describe what it is? I don't know if I wanna go to youtube if it is something that doesn't interest me. So I usually don't follow the links.
thanks[/B]


Good Point
I normally do give details, but this one got away.
I have now added the details

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#169068 - 08/12/07 07:16 AM Re: The Ultimate Arranger Keyboard
zuki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 4709
Quote:
Originally posted by WDMcM:
Hey, the more the merrier! Plus I'd love to have someone else play it so I could see how it sounds out front.
Dave


I'll try to do that some night so you can hear it out front.

zuki
_________________________
Live: Korg PA4X/Zed 6FX/EV Everse 8s/Senn 935/K&M stand

Studio: Korg PA4X/Yamaha DGX670/Boss BR900CD/Tascam DP24SD/MTM Iloud/Senn 935/K&M stand/Shure SM57 studio

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#169069 - 08/12/07 12:37 PM Re: The Ultimate Arranger Keyboard
Diki Online   content


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14173
Loc: NW Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by WDMcM:
Yes, the keybed is slightly tighter than an original B3 but not to the point of it being a detriment by any means.

Joey DeFrancesco and other serious Hammond players don't seem to have a problem with the key feel of the newer Hammond's.

Dave


Oh, I agree, and would get one in a flash if a) I could afford it and b) I could get someone else to move it!

One of my biggest peeves with my G70 (other than the Chord Sequencer loss!) is that there is no way to route the VK Organ section out to a separate out, to send to a Trek and a 147 (or even a Motion Sound). If they fix this, my G70 will be gone...

Until then, I can at least dream about the XB3....
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#169070 - 08/12/07 06:10 PM Re: The Ultimate Arranger Keyboard
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Oh, I agree, and would get one in a flash if a) I could afford it and b) I could get someone else to move it!

One of my biggest peeves with my G70 (other than the Chord Sequencer loss!) is that there is no way to route the VK Organ section out to a separate out, to send to a Trek and a 147 (or even a Motion Sound). If they fix this, my G70 will be gone...

Until then, I can at least dream about the XB3....


Well this would be a bit redundant, but you could always get one of these;
Voce V5+

I borrowed a friends Voce V5+ when one of the bands I am in played where the stage was very tight and I couldn't even use a double tier stand. So I MIDI'ed the V5+ up to my digital piano and ran it through my Motion Sound (no room for the 145 either) and it worked great.

Best Regards,

Dave

[This message has been edited by WDMcM (edited 08-12-2007).]

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