I've posted in the past about how much I like the Mega guitars from Yamaha, and about my hopes that I might be able to add them to my G70's tone palette. Could anyone who has tried to integrate Yamaha and Roland arrangers (or arrangers and modules) together please post their experiences...?

There are two main areas of concern, for me... Firstly, does the Mega voice system from Yamaha involve the use of MIDI CC#s, or is all the control done from notes (Roland only allow a very small number of CC#s in Style Mode, although SMFs can send anything)? Specifically, all the Mega information about damped notes, mutes, body knocks, pick noises, etc..

Are they triggered JUST with MIDI notes, or does it involve CC#s?

And, in the case of arranger-arranger linking, is it possible to sync the two together tightly enough for performance. Sync start issues, MIDI clock 'jitter', triggering fills from remote arrangers, etc....

I am not expecting to be able to call up registrations remotely on the Yamaha (but it'd be nice if I could!), but once BOTH arrangers are set up to sync start, can fills and intro/endings be synchronized?

Anyone with any real world experience, please post here with your opinions...

Diki ...your not thinking of jumping ship
Let me ask you this if the T2 had 76 keys would you dump your G70? If so Why?

Diki, why bother with the hassle..For a few[very few] sounds ...why screw up what the G70 does better than any other keyboard.."Sounds great as a stand alone board"

If you continue this quest..you will find sync problems[ I should say out of sync timing problems], using both units , even with a single clock..

I tried to use a Roland 5080[flagship] with my G1000, and it [5080] had glitches trying to stay with the G1000..

I also tried to hear PSR2100 sounds with the G1000 arranger playing out...The Yamaha sounds made me want to throw away the PSR2100...but I sold it[2 of them] instead..

Spend time playing the Tyros2 next to the G70, and you will get over this desire...The Yamaha doesn't bring enough to the plate...in fact it steals from the plate...

You have the best..play it


This is my opinion, so you Yamaha people stay civil, unless you have played these two side by side for any period of time..You do not know where I am coming from..


Maybe we will liven up SZ again..

Thankfully you haven't lost your sense of humor Fran....but I am a bit concerned about your sense of reality.

Ian

Ian, please tell me what it brings to the plate?

What the Tyros takes from the plate[meaning it compromises what the G70 already has on the plate]..is an inferior mic/harmonizer...real drawbar organs....guitar mode....make up tools ...just to name a few...

And sounds from Tyros2...sorry none impress me...


I respect your opinions, but I would respect them more if you played the competition as well...and then gave a legitimate comparison..

Sure....SA voices, Mega Voices, terrific OS...I'm sure you must agree they are incredible features...if you are open-minded?

You must learn to think outside the Roland box, my friend...

Ian

Fran, I have played the G70....and the G1000, and the E-600.

Nice keyboards.

Ian

Just getting ready..

[img]http://aimtoday.aolcdn.com/aimtoday_kisses/shutup[/img]

all the new stuff is great!!!!

Thanks bud...you're all class.

Ian

Diki,

Sorry for hijacking your thread.

Glad to see you are open minded about getting the right sounds...hope you get some answers.

Ian

Diki i think the ultimate combo is a tyros 2 with a Roland or Yamaha Motif module for the live drum kits...

seeing i wanted it in one board i went the Motif XS but now i lack arranger features which really does not bother me.

The G70 has an awesome all round sound but i think that the Tyros 2 has better lead voices in alot of the sound categories (S.ART).

It would be a deadly combo! good luck!

Nick

hey diki,
fwiw, i agree with nick...get yourself a motif es rack... better sounds,(plus hundreds of way more interesting ones too!!)than the tyros (imo!) the way yamaha have really tweaked out the sounds on the es using the 8 available dual insert effects (ie you can have dual insertion efects AND the system effects running on up to eight midi channels) is amazing...
dennis

So.... Other than the usual partisanship, not much so far in actual response to my questions about the Mega voice system.

What a storm in a teacup As anyone who had actually READ my post would understand (rather than read INTO it their own agenda) all I want to do is add some Mega voice sounds to my G70. Jump ship? Hardly...

I am firmly committed to the Roland G70 until something comes out that is better in overall 'live-ness' of sound, 'live-ness' of styles, 'pro' quality keybed and construction and adds a Chord Sequencer (!). But even I am prepared to admit there are sounds in other arrangers or synths that can be better than the G70's. On the other hand, there are things in the G70 that eclipse some of their sounds, too (and SOME of you might even be open-minded enough to admit that, too!). There's NO one 'do it all' arranger, IMO (or I'd have it already!).

But, IMO, Yamaha's Mega voices are the best 'real' sounding guitars I've heard, so far, and I'd simply like to ADD them to the G70. A MotifXS Rack (or ES Rack if they don't hurry up and release it soon) would be ideal, but I am having trouble getting solid information about how the technology works, and whether it is possible to trigger it from a Roland arranger.

So, one more time (maestro, please!), does anyone have any REAL information about linking the two?

miden and NickG... any experience using the Mega voices? I don't care too much about the insertion effects until I am sure the Mega stuff can be triggered by my Roland...

Diki i use mega voices all the time, the strumming guitars are awesome and they are so easy to use.

i am positive you would be able to record the midi data from a mega voice channel into a G70 Style/Song channel/track and then use the G70's MIDI out to trigger off a mega voice patch on a Yamaha module whether it be a tyros/psr or Motif Rack.

as for configuration, of coarse at first it is probably going to be a headache just like most things but once its setup you wont have to touch it again...

the keyboard player in my brother's band uses a Kurzwell Stage Piano with a Korg Sound module and it works perfectly.

I would suggest trial out this setup using a Motif ES rack unit...

i can send you a track of Mega Voice midi data to record into your G70. u will then need to see if you can go to a local dealer and ask them if they will let u plug in one of their ES racks into your G70 to test this. i am sure they will let you do this.

good luck

Nick

Thanks, Nick... Yes, please send me some Mega MIDI tracks (I'll look at them in Cubase) and I should be able to tell right there whether the style section of the G70 can handle the codes.

Alright! Now we're getting somewhere!

Will do, theres not really any special "codes" of such, to trigger off the fret slides and board taps they are just at different octaves of the voice's sample range...

what you will need to do is use 2 tracks for 1 mega voice...

in one track u have all the notes which u need to transpose as you change chords. On the second track u use the notes in the upper octaves that you don�t want transposed because these are the element noises of the guitar body. In the Yamaha u can have all this on one track and it is smart so it doesn�t transpose the element noises in the higher octaves. Unless� with the Roland u can assign certain octaves to NOT transpose with chord changes�

Hi Diki
A lot of the voices also use multiple velocity layers to get an accurate sound, so you will need to match these up as well otherwise it sounds really weird.
Hope this helps

Bill


[This message has been edited by abacus (edited 08-07-2007).]

Diki, have you tried to use Guitar mode on the G70?

I am getting use to it, and I think the results are on par with what I hear from any Yamaha...

Also the nylon/steel string guitar patch, has enough velocity switching to use instead of Yamaha sounds..

If you think these Yamaha sounds are going to sound good with the arranger parts...you are going to be unpleasantly surprised..

With very little edited I find I like the guitars on the G70...and I know they play correct..

I hope you can get the Yammie to work with your Roland, Diki...it would make a nice combination.

Good luck.

Ian

Diki,
I agree with Fran, are you using that Guitar Mode? Roland's Guitar Mode is very impressive. I think you'd get much more realistic guitar playing using that feature.

Squeak

Well, Nick, it looks like you have shot me down...!

Despite many pleas for it over several years, Roland still insist on only allowing one 'drum track' in the style section, a track that does NOT transpose as you change chords.

You CAN do it to the SMF sequencer, which makes the omission in the style section even MORE annoying Oh, well.... Back to the drawing board.

Fran, do you actually PLAY the guitar mode 'live'? I find it to be a reasonably useful tool for making an SMF (which I understand the vast majority of your show is based around), but until it is integrated with the Style section (and THAT is going to take Roland coming up with a non-transposing track, as well!) it is little more than a gimmick for arranger use.

And, as much as I love my G70, I have yet to hear ANYTHING in it's soundset that comes even close to Yamaha's Mega voice guitars, when programmed correctly. Drums, pianos, organs, synth sounds, the G70 has a definite edge, IMO, over the Yamaha's. But the extra performance abilities of the Mega voices (and the fact that you CAN use them in a style) gives this one area a strong nod to the Yamaha's.

I am not talking about guitar sounds you PLAY (although, even in that area, the SA acoustic guitars sound better, IMO), but style guitar accompaniment... Fortunately, I play with a real guitarist, so most of the time, this is not an important consideration, but this winter I intend to play a few more solo gigs, and am going to miss him a LOT when faced with the G70's average acoustic and electric guitar patterns.

Fran, for someone that uses several different arrangers, including the MS, you seem a strange choice of member to advise me to not use anything else and stick solely to my G70...!

Hi Diki
Please remember that most of the Guitars you here in the Tyros 2 styles, have been played by a real guitarist using a Midi pickup, and this is another reason why they sound so real. (This technique also applies to other instruments used in the styles)

Bill

This is true, abacus, but Roland (and several others) do the same thing on some styles. But if you take a Yamaha style, and convert it to Roland (or whatever) you have to remove all the Mega information controls (they have no equivalent in Roland) for things like pick noise, chord damping (this one is especially important - it sounds completely different to just stopping the note with a note-off), body knocks, etc..

The end result is a loss of the realism that the original Mega style had. You still have the notes, but the other stuff is gone. If a simple conversion of the notes where all that was necessary, all would be fine. But there is a LOT more to a guitar performance than just the notes... Although they may have STARTED work on those Mega style guitar parts using MIDI guitars, all the rest of the Mega information was added afterwards in editing...

Diki, it is reasonable to listen to me...because I am right

When I sold my G1000..should have answered your question...The G70 is my only primary choice...I use other boards because I can

I have fooled with the arranger record and the Guitar mode...it is very realistic and not that hard to use...

I will only work solo with the G70..

The MS will work fine with the band..

The E-600 has a new owner..[this will force me to use the G70].....

Maybe the new owner will come forward and confirm what a great board the E-600 was/is..

I really am too comfortable with 76 keys to go back to 61..

I knew breakfast today would cost me
Yes that new owner is quite happy with the little known about Roland E600
Although I wouldn't part with my beloved Ketron SD1+....for my everyday stage performances....I was very surprised at the great sound of the E600 & the many many useful on board features like Touch screen, speakers Mic/Voc harmony, chord seq,orchestrator & So much more making this KB a very nice needed backup....

Thanx Fran

PS... BTW, Fran does know everything about Rolands

I would sure love to hear Fran post something with an arranger guitar part that rivals the T2...

Oh, that's right. He doesn't use arrangers much (by his own admission - the vast majority of stuff is MP3s or SMFs).

But he IS right... all the time. Day or night.

Here Diki..unrehearsed recorded on laptop..
http://download.yousendit.com/2428DAEF4713A981

BTW: Iam right about the G70........and you!!

Whilst this is a nice effort, Fran, it in no way rivals the Tyros megavoices.

The SA voices (T2 & S900) are also in a league of their own....the guitars are awesome.

Ian

No substitute for Real Guitar http://www.musiclab.com/products/realgtr_info.htm but that�s not what the original question was about.

Bill

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Diki:
[B]

[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 08-09-2007).]

Ian, don't tell me how awesome they are...Play something and show me!!

Bill I agree Real Guitar is hard to beat...but I truly believe if one could learn the technique to play Guitar Mode on the G70...it can be more than convincing..There are more than two octaves of keys designed to play different strums, besides the arpeggio [play] keys..

Except for Nick's decent guitar recordings, I have yet to hear anything from Tyros2 SA, Mega and whatever sounds..that have impressed me.
That is not to say that there are not any Yamaha sounds that rival Roland, Korg, Gem, Ketron...I am sure there is one or two..

For sure it won't be acoustic piano, Choir, Scat, organ,Drums, etc..
Or for that matter the entire GM sound bank..

The only Tyros2 recording that got my attention...was Craig's great guitar work on that Chet Atkins tune..

So what do you say Ian, record these great SA, Mega sounds ..and blow me away.. ..Right!!!

Nah....Fran, I don't need to do that...nothing I would play would impress you...I'd be wasting my time...you ARE a confirmed Yamaha basher, you know.

I realize it must be very hard for you to admit that the Yamaha mega voices are better...but that's understandable given your loyalty to Roland.

Just imagine how great Roland's guitar mode would sound with mega voices...

All the best,

Ian

Ian, no problem..

I'd bet we'd have alot less arguments here if people would start posting ON TOPIC demos, examples, sounds & style samples etc so that you can hear as well as talk about things....this whats better then what is getting kind of old big time....at least Fran gave it a shot...if ya wanna walk the walk ...then by all means talk the talk my friends......talk alone is cheap. On top of that in a real live pro situation
"WITHIN THE MIX" all this Mega /Sa Crap dont mount up to a hill of beans.
Roland is Roland ....Yamaha is Yamaha....buy it, play it, enjoy it but please stop the BEST stuff..I'd rather hear people play & make judgements if I enjoy what I hear then what they are playing



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 08-07-2007).]

But he doesn't know everything about Yamaha which is why he shouldn't continue speaking of how trashy they are.

We have all heard it and it still goes on. Fran Carango�s endless posts of how superior his G70 is over all other boards. The far superior sound quality (live in your face), better than Yamaha bla bla.

He owns a Mediastation, a G70, lots of other hi-tech gear and the best he has to show for it are tinny midi files that sound like the standard sound interface on an AWE sound blaster card.
Simple cheesy drum patterns which have no velocity switch, a tinny electric guitar or an EP voice which he plays for the leads. Absolute fundamental Playing �skills� in realtime with the right hand.

So I have a question: why all this hitech gear for such simple fundamental music? All you need is a Casio really�

Its so easy to sit back and bag out everything and claim you have the best n greatest, you sure sound like you know what your talking about. But the proof is in the pudding. You got nothing!

A member (Diki) puts up a post asking a genuine inquisitive question about linking his G70 keyboard with a Yamaha sound engine for the guitar voices and instead of offering any advice on track with his query the best Fran can do is basically tell him he�s wasting his time. What a friendly informative educated piece of advice!

Diki I have heard both Roland�s guitar mode and Yamaha mega guitars, I use guitar strums so much as I play a large amount of acoustic rock and Latin styles. (Maybe I do know what I am talking about here since I actually USE the guitars voices in my playing!!!)

I hope everyone else can see this because I surly can and so many other members who have left this forum saw it aswell�

I truly believe a large percentage of posts that are posted on this �general arranger forum� are never on topic nor are they informative in any way about Arranger keybaords. Its more a like social club for taunts and jokes towards other members.

It�s a shame though because there really are a lot of smart experienced members who do have a lot of genuine information to share, but logging on and seeing half the crap that gets posted really insults their intelligence which I don�t blame them. Another thing it all comes down to which I was I got in trouble for mentioning a few months back � people have too much time on their hands or simply come here to get the attention they cannot find in real life face to face!

Over the past few weeks I have been visiting the Motifator forum and posting there since I now own a Motif XS. Friendly people, very knowledgeable, extremely helpful and un-biased on their opinions.
How a forum really should be!!! Most of the posts are on topic and to the point. If you want to be a tosser and hijack posts - go and join a chatroom on MSN!

To all those members who really are genuine and decent please don�t take offense to this I know who you are and believe me im sorry be quite blunt but I am really only talking about a small portion of the forum who are absolutely KILLING IT! � one can only hope that one day someone will do something about it�

This post will probably get me banned but that�s the risk I am willing to take to voice my onion on this.

Cheers!

Nick

Nick, I answered my experience using a Roland arranger with both Roland and Yamaha products...in my first post..

The rest of my responses were answering others specific questions..

As for your outburst...it has no merit, and doesn't phase me at all...


We will miss you as you move on..say hello to other "move ons"...

Why does it seem to be a lot of two faced people here...Human nature, I guess...

No matter what anyone says...we will all play what we want....

Or, if Fran had his way, we would all play what HE wants

Sorry, Fran, but, as I explained earlier, I am NOT interested in guitars you PLAY, whether it is Guitar Mode or straight playing. I need a good sounding guitar strum and picking patterns in arranger mode, as accompaniment to what I am playing.

As such, Guitar Mode is useless (it can't be driven from the arranger section), and your experiences with Mega voices (if you tried to PLAY them) may well lead you to believe they are not good. But the way the arranger adds in all the extra performance noises, mutes, etc., push it a LONG way past Roland's acoustic guitars.

PLEASE don't forget, I've had my G70 a LOT longer than you. If there were any picking and strumming in there that beat the Yamaha's, I'd have found it by now OTOH, the T2 and S900 are packed with styles that have guitar parts sound very realistic. Remember, I play with an acoustic guitarist every day. I KNOW what they are supposed to sound like. And the Roland, good though they are, are not as good as the Yamaha's.

BUT... the Yamaha's guitars are not enough to make me want to jump ship, just add them, But it all seems a little moot, as Roland don't allow more than one non-transposing track.

I've been using the G70 as my SOLE gigging keyboard for a lot longer than you, Fran, and use it in a MUCH wider range of applications, in a much wider choice of modes (arranger, SMF, LH Bass with arr drums, straight keyboard with full band, straight keyboard solo, etc., etc.), so PERHAPS you can appreciate that someone else may have a different set of priorities than you. After all, if I wanted to sound JUST like you, I wouldn't need anything better. In fact, I could use MP3s of my old gear and a one handed strap-on...

But I don't.....

BTW, if I had a guitarist that played and sounded as poorly as that posted example, I'd fire him in a flash.

Diki, Diki, Diki....I don't play the G70 any differently than you stated..you "play" ...

With the band, Yes our material is based on "our" MP3's..but, I play full keyboard and left hand bass ..all night..

As a solo[just G70]..I do not play MP3's unless it is a DJ portion of a gig...or breaks...

I have been playing a lot longer than you, and my background comes from when musicians played...I have always played left hand bass, starting with accordion in 1956..

I can back up a vocalist on just about any known tune on the spur of the moment[I have done this many times]...Without arranger, or as Nick does, a poor example of a lead guitar line[and arranger do the rest]...I also do not play sparse basic right hand..never have...always full chords with melody line within...These are attributes of trained accordionist...Maybe that is why I found Accordionist to be the best professional musicians...

Diki since you never leave home without your guitarist...why do you need an arranger substitute for him...or does it have to do with that "strap on" thing you mentioned..

I could care less if anyone played want I like..I would rather they don't....

Time for me to close out of this thread...it is getting boring...besides I have to get ready to go to the shore...and play MP3's..

"You're only young once, but you can be immature forever."

John Greier ...


chas

http://www.francarango.com/born.html

Like I said...

Sorry, Fran, but PERHAPS you might NOT be the only player here who started on accordion, can play most tunes at the drop of a hat, and have been playing professionally for over 30 years. This MIGHT come as a shock to you, so perhaps you should sit down...

If the best advice you can offer is 'don't do anything, don't try anything' when someone wants to improve their sound (despite your constant efforts at the same thing!), perhaps you might consider how this makes you look.

. 'Don't do as I do, do as I say'?

Your posted demos show you don't have the slightest interest in an accurate guitar accompaniment. If they showed any improvement over even a G1000, I would have to take your advice seriously. But the proof is in the pudding, as they say. Once again, Fran, your advice doesn't get reflected in your demos.

Post ANYTHING that comes even close to the steel and electric Mega guitar demos from here:
http://aux.music.yamaha.com/tyros2/download/index.html

and we can talk again. But if you can't back up your 'advice' with anything else but that awful posted Guitar Mode demo (which, ONCE AGAIN, I repeat DOES NOT WORK IN ARRANGER MODE), you have to realize why I might not accept it.

(Oh, and feel free to post one of your very 'mature' 'JUST SHUT UP' emoticons in reply. They really are more effective than your demos, at least!)

Fundamentalism is the bane of our world right now. If the best anyone can come up with is 'My arranger, right or wrong' it doesn't show much of a grip on reality...! Perhaps we could have Zuki and Fran in a caged deathmatch to decide the winner. Arranger jihad... it might be fun to watch!

Anyway, back to the topic... If Style mode is impossible with Yamaha Mega Mode, is anyone using it in SMF Mode with a Roland arranger? Maybe a MotifES Rack? Does the MotifXS have any extra Mega Voices in the guitar section, or would an ES Rack serve the same purpose?

I'd just be happy in ever hearing a few Zuki demos

Amen to everything you have said up there! FULL RESPECT!!

the motif XS has HEAPS more new mega guitars but they are mostly electric (Clean/solid/distorted/overdriven...

How did I get dragged into this?

I need not enter into any CONTEST. With bookings far into 2008, I have no time to amuse you. I think you might be surprised if you heard me in concert. Bring you band, have the audience close their eyes and I will win that contest hands down

I think I'll take a break from this forum now.

zuki

Zuki good luck in your musical endeavors.

Zuki,

You know that I respect you as a friend and musician so don't let them get to you. Also, you don't have to prove yourself to anyone but your audience and, seeing from your busy schedule, you have nothing to worry about.

As usual, always looking forward to your posts.

Taike

I only brought Zuki into this because he is as fervent a Yamaha zealot as Fran is for Roland, but with even less posted material to demonstrate it.

Somehow, zuki has no time to record himself, but plenty of time to post irrelevant 'Yamaha is the best!' on any topic he feels like, relevant or not.

C'mon. guys... Let's get real. NONE of these arrangers are 'the best'. They ALL have features that could be improved. They ALL have areas of soundset that could be improved. They ALL have OS problems that could be improved. They ALL have layout problems that could be improved.

There is only one person they are 'the best' for... YOU

I've said this many times... They are NOT your grandkids, or your girlfriends, or your religion. They are TOOLS. No more or less than a spade to a gardner. It is the gardner, NOT the spade, that makes the garden. Now, MAYBE, in gardening circles, there are some who will go 'my spade is the best!' but somehow I doubt it. There are FAR more important aspects to gardening than what spade you use.

And, fortunately, in music, what arranger you play is probably one of the least important aspects of how good you are, either at just playing music, or at entertaining a crowd. The audience doesn't care whether you play a Casio or a T2, as long as you entertain them. And we have ALL heard a great arranger in the hands of a terrible player.... It sure didn't sound like a great arranger, did it?!!

Just the simple fact that everyone goes gaga every time one of the majors releases a new arranger demonstrates that everyone DOES want an improvement to their arranger, that there IS room for improvement, that PERHAPS the arranger they have now is not PERFECT...

Now if only we could be adult enough to admit this BEFORE they come out with the new models...

WHEN someone comes out with an arranger that is all around better than the one I have, in all the areas I consider important, I will get it. And I won't give a d*mn whether it is by Roland or Yamaha, or even Casio. I won't be changing religions...

I will just be buying a new tool.

What harm is it in posting my appreciation of Yamaha products? I think most that know me will confirm that I love Roland products too. You just seem to look for trouble all the time.

I will never post my work for you to publicly humiliate me as you do others - repulsive.

You find my posts irrelevant? I find yours self-serving.

zuki

Zuki has NEVER posted that Yamaha's the best. All he's done is stating that he's satisfied with his current keyboard. And dragging him into this thread just to make fun of him has no virtue at all. Zuki has a wonderful sense of humor but some things just aren't funny. I think you owe him an apology, Diki.

To post or not to post demos ... that's up to the individual. That doesn't mean that non-posters are lesser musicians. Maybe they don't have the need for self-gratification.

Taike

I disagree...they are more than just "tools" because music is a personal thing and an art form....gardening is just...gardening.

A person's choice of musical instrument is a very personal thing...just witness how defensive people get when someone puts down their keyboard choice.

Much of the bickering on this forum begins with this type of posting...so it stands to reason that it is more than just a "tool" to the majority of members.

It may be a "tool" to you Diki, but that's just your opinion...to others their arranger is their "baby" and not to be insulted.

Ian

Ian, it's a good thing my wife doesn't read this board as she is a Master Gardener and would be calling for your head about now. Luckily, she's also a musician so she might let you live .

chas

Yes chas....I certainly wouldn't want to get "planted".

Ian

I had a hunch that something was growing.

What instrument does she play, Chas? I bet she loves Tchaikovsky's Waltz of the Flowers.

Taike

She plays flute and piccolo. Played with the Philadelphia Summer Orchestra while in grad school at Temple Univ. That's basically the orchestra without the first chair players.

chas

I'm impressed. That makes her a high-caliber musican.

Not really. Way more training than talent (like I said, she doesn't read this board). Although she can read and play anything, I'm asleep after the second note. Just no soul, I guess. She'd think Monk's 'round midnight was pretty but only if I played it without using jazz chords. Probably a missing or mutated gene. Oh well, she makes a fantastic omlette.

chas

LMAO

I'm getting this mental image of your wife playing the flute and you doing the Pink Panther walk.

At least you're not starving.

Taike

If you all think your arrangers ARE your 'babies', how come you are all so eager to discard them as soon as something new comes out? Most of you have a list as long as your arm of 'discarded' keyboards and arrangers. Perhaps you are not as attached to your current arranger as you think you are. If they ARE your babies, you may not be very good parents!

Don't get me wrong, I LIKE my tools... I just don't forget that's what they are. They are the pen, in the hand of a writer, they are the brush in the hands of a painter. But if they make a better pen, or a better brush, you use it.

Defend your writing, defend your painting, defend your music. Don't worship the tool you use to create it...

Strangely, I think I am one of the LEAST keyboard hopping guys on this forum! I had my last arranger (a G1000) for eight years before getting my G70 over two years ago. Before that, I had a G800 for three years (only changed because the ZIP was way more practical than floppies), and before that, an RA90 back to 1993 (I think!).

But I am the LAST person to claim they are 'perfect' or 'the best'. There are MANY things from Yamaha, Korg and Ketron I wish my G70 had. There are many things from my G70 I wish a T2 had... etc., etc..

I just wish that we would spend more time trying to figure out how to make them better (and apply the pressure to the manufacturers to get what we want), rather than argue and bicker about which one already IS 'the best'....

It may be a "tool" to you Diki, but that's just your opinion...my keyboard is more than that to me.

Not only does it provide me an income, but it is also my source of relaxation, and a part of my social life as well...perhaps that is where we differ....and that's okay...it's what makes this forum so interesting.

I like upgrading every few years for the obvious reason...they get better.

Ian

Of COURSE it's my opinion, Ian...

That's all anything is here... One or another person's opinions.

Just arrived home from 3 jobs today - 1 hour, 2 hour and 3 hour. I am so excited about what an arranger board can do under any circumstance, it's beyond words.

I am so sorry to everyone for being childish in my responses. I just want to keep playing music with what board fits me best at the moment and have fellowship here on the forum.

zuki