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#155704 - 11/11/03 06:05 PM News from the PA1 X Pro
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hello guys,

Here in Belgium it is 2 hours AM and finally I have time to write something about this new KB (The health of my wife is going better...so less stress..)
My first impression over this new PA was moderate, but now after three days , I can assure that this new Korg is a real "beast" !
The styles are good and certain are "terrifics"..The different variations don't loose the original feel of the style and the mixing of the different tracks of the style is very good and give a natural "ensemble" sound (more natural that the SD1) It's more orchestral and gives a sensation of real band..

My doubt was the quality of the sounds.My first reaction was not so enthusiastic. The others KB have aftertouch but by the PA 1X it is a little different.
You have to play with another manner to have a good result, not only hit a key. For example, for acoustic guitar you have to hit harder and harder, to hear the different layers of the multisample!
You understand me ?
It's like the megavoices of the Tyros, but you can do that in real time with the Korg
The sequencer is very easy to use (far better than Yamaha) and the quick record is very user-fiendly (overdubbing is very easy).

I made some demos and hope send their for the end of this week
Believe me, this harmonica is fantastic...When you hit the keys with the appropriated manner you can hear the vibrations of the thin strips and the blow in the instrument ...(understand ?)
So, it is now three a 'clock, it's time to me to go to bed because tomorrow I have to work a 8 a'clock...

Greetings,
JJ

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#155705 - 11/13/03 01:27 PM Re: News from the PA1 X Pro
silvan29 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/14/03
Posts: 6
I also bought the Korg Pa1X Pro yesterday. I almost spend all day long playing it.
I still have my Ketron SD1 too like you. I am also pianist and I must say the Keyboard of SD1 and Pa1X are almost the same. My SD1 is 2 years old so of course not anymore same as new, but as I remember it was like the Korg one. (The best Keyboard Keys I ever played where the G800 ones).
I will try to record some MP3 and post them here sometimes.
The Pa1X crashed "freezed" only one time today. I always had this problems with every Keboard in Version 1.0 (Roland, Ketron, Korg,...). So I don't worry anymore ;-)

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#155706 - 11/13/03 07:28 PM Re: News from the PA1 X Pro
TomTomSF Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/99
Posts: 736
Loc: Half Moon Bay, CA, USA
You guys are lucky to be playing your new keyboards! It will be nice to hear and mp3, if you can find the time. And also you should try to get some sleep.

Tom G.
_________________________
Tyros 4

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#155707 - 11/14/03 06:54 AM Re: News from the PA1 X Pro
New Yorker Offline
Member

Registered: 11/26/99
Posts: 236
Loc: St. Petersburg, Russia
Anyone has info on add-on boards and what are the exact sounds are there? I can't details anywhere on the internet.

I assume they are the same boards as for pa-80 or am i wrong?
_________________________
VM Welt

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#155708 - 11/14/03 12:28 PM Re: News from the PA1 X Pro
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hello silvan,
I'm glad you have also a PA 1 X pro , so I'm not alone
I wish you will be happy withe your new keyboard and the old SD1.....

Hello TOM,
Thanks for your kins words...I promise , this week-end I'll try to post some MP3's demos from the new Korg

New Yorker,

I had never play the PA 80 , so I can not say that the sounds are the same ...I'm sorry

Greetings,
JJ

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#155709 - 11/15/03 04:49 AM Re: News from the PA1 X Pro
seanbaker Offline
Member

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 175
can you 1xpro owners tell me about the piano and sax sounds? the demos online don't paint a good picture of the solo saxes or the piano. when i look at the voice list thought there are several pianos and saxes. are any of the others any better? Is there a chance one of the saxes might be closer to yamaha's sweet saxes. is there a better piano than the one's on the demos? please send demos if possible

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#155710 - 11/15/03 05:14 AM Re: News from the PA1 X Pro
silvan29 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/14/03
Posts: 6
About the Sounds:

I'm professional pianist...what should I say about the piano sounds...mmm...if you need a solo piano sound you will never be happy with a Keyboard. KORG is also selling Digital Pianos... so they will never put a good piano in a Arranger. Personally I expectet more from the Piano Sound in the Pa1XPro. But you find GUITARS! They sound really AMAZING!

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#155711 - 11/15/03 05:18 AM Re: News from the PA1 X Pro
silvan29 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/14/03
Posts: 6
I just want to say something about the 62 polyphon voices: it is NOT enough! If I play a Style with Guitars in back as arrangement I have no chance to play the Grand Piano Sound with Sustain! :-(

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#155712 - 11/15/03 05:34 AM Re: News from the PA1 X Pro
silvan29 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/14/03
Posts: 6
Oh you asked also about the saxes... no comment. Look at the face of a saxofon player (my sister) when you play the keyboard and then you understand.

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#155713 - 11/15/03 06:28 AM Re: News from the PA1 X Pro
sbenno Offline
Member

Registered: 10/03/03
Posts: 35
silvan29 wrote: "I'm professional pianist...what should I say about the piano sounds...mmm...if you need a solo piano sound you will never be happy with a Keyboard. KORG is also selling Digital Pianos... so they will never put a good piano in a Arranger. Personally I expectet more from the Piano Sound in the Pa1XPro. .... I just want to say something about the 62 polyphon voices: it is NOT enough! If I play a Style with Guitars in back as arrangement I have no chance to play the Grand Piano Sound with Sustain! :-( "

Hmmm, perhaps this keyboard will solve these problems ? http://www.lionstracs.com/index.php?module=Static_Docs&func=view&f=/specs.html
:-)

How about playing a 2GB chromatically sampled piano with 16 layers pedal up/down directly from disk with no polyphony bottlenecks and this while your other full arrangment is played by the style player or MIDI player ?

Polyphony is a word that a Mediastation X-76 owner will quickly forget.

See ya at the NAMM to verify that my claims are not hot air :-)

Fear the penguin (the linux mascot :-) ).

cheers,
Benno

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#155714 - 11/15/03 07:29 AM Re: News from the PA1 X Pro
kbrkr Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 2866
Loc: Tampa, FL
I'll tell you one thing about the X-76 that I don't like right off the bat.

Why are the MOD wheels positioned on the Upper Left of the keyboard?! Yuck. They should be next to the keybed on the left for quick and easy access.
_________________________
Al

Pa4x - LD Systems Maui 28 - Mackie Thumps

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#155715 - 11/15/03 07:40 AM Re: News from the PA1 X Pro
sbenno Offline
Member

Registered: 10/03/03
Posts: 35
kbrkr, I agree about the position of the wheels. Perhaps they were positioned there for space reasons, otherwise the case would become too big. I'm not the hardware engineer but commonsense tells me that they should be on the left (except if you assume that people rarely use these wheels, perhaps in certain cases you do not use them (piano bar player?) but on other cases one might use them heavily (distorted guitar samples).
AFAIK you can connect a small joystick on the left and use that insteead mod/pitchweels. (but I'm not 100% sure. domenik anything to say in your defense ? :-) )

If I was the hw engineer, I would get rid of the floppy drive, move the piano keys a bit on the right side and make room for the pitch/modwheels (or a joystick).
Who uses floppies these days when you can get cheap USB memory sticks with sizes as big as 256,512,1024MB).
Ok perhaps to read samples or styles from ancient keyboards but that's about it.
domenik anything to say in your defense ?
the synthzone forum users want a convincing response :-)

cheers,
Benno

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#155716 - 11/15/03 08:40 AM Re: News from the PA1 X Pro
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well...about the wheels position..
I know too that they are to much high, BUT if I had draw in the CAD this position, sure will mean some...

All the PCB boards are ready for the full production, BUT in the Mediastation base model will NOT solder some parts.

In the ONLY Mediastation X-76 PRO/64bit Opteron, we will solder 4 user programmable wheels and one key finger Touch Pad, used like a mouse and for drive the DMX Light/Goldenscan/Laser. ( I get the Goldenscan firmware from a big light company that sure your all know...but I cant tell the name..) So, this lights software parts will developed from this company and not from Lionstracs.

This was the request for all our International DJ, that will play mediastation in the clubs and drive the lights too.

Another points to tell about my own company... How I told before, Lionstracs will ONLY develope the all Hardware and firmware.
We belive in the Linux community developers, for that now we have about 12 software Linux engineers around the world.( that every month we pay for the great software and you GET ALL FREE by Internet download!!)
Again, I will promise that all the software developed by Lionstracs in the future, you will get all for FREE.

Lionstracs will garantee the good hardware/firmware and all the Linux community will develope the software.
We dont care to develope propietary software and waiting YEARS that the products are completed. We know in fact, that all company have the problem to develope and testing the propietary firmware and all the costumers will waiting till they fixed the bugs.
How told Ron parker, our U.S. general manager, you get a new boss, a freedom boss, but the name of this boss is the Linux developer community and not the Lionstracs. So, if you have understand, they WILL resolve all your software problems, we only will produce the good HQ hardware and the PCB firmware.

i think that is enough.
Domenik

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#155717 - 11/15/03 08:48 AM Re: News from the PA1 X Pro
trtjazz Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 2683
Domenik,
So I don't get your answer here about the pitch and mod wheels.....are you going to lower them or leave them on top?
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html
_________________________
jam on,
Terry
http://www.artisans-world.com/

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#155718 - 11/15/03 09:03 AM Re: News from the PA1 X Pro
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by trtjazz:
Domenik,
So I don't get your answer here about the pitch and mod wheels.....are you going to lower them or leave them on top?
Terry


I told before, I leave them at the top why i cant move it from the PCB boards.
In the Opteron model the you have at the top: the picht/modulation, down the 2 more programmable wheels and at the bottom the keypad...
At this point all the cover is FULL, I can't ADD nothing more...

Is now all clear for all?
Cheers

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#155719 - 11/15/03 09:17 AM Re: News from the PA1 X Pro
sbenno Offline
Member

Registered: 10/03/03
Posts: 35
Since in the opteron model there will be 4 wheels (two down and two up) and all are programmable I'd guess users would prefer
pitch/modwheel down and the other two general purpose wheels up.
right ? :-)

Domenik how about the joystick ?

Benno

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#155720 - 11/15/03 09:19 AM Re: News from the PA1 X Pro
keybplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2417
Loc: CA
Bravo! sbenno. You are involved in the development of the X76 Media Station and yet you have the gumption to speak your mind when it comes to changing and or improving the Design and even the features of the Lionstracs. This is really an eye opener. It means that if so desired the Lionstracs can even be changed now before the production process begins - if domenik is willing to do so. Perhaps domenik and the other Hardware designers can indeed change the location of the Mod/Pitch Bend Wheels before production ramps up. I feel the Floppy Drive is also non-essential but perhaps having the ability to use an 'external' Floppy Drive (by way of USB connection) for those occasions where a Floppy might be needed. Such as this one, as an example:



High-speed 2x floppy drive Technology
USB powered – no AC adapter needed. Reads and writes standard 1.44 MB floppy disks at twice the speed.

Simple to connect
Industry standard USB connection gets you up and running in seconds.

Package Includes: • Floppy Drive • QuickStart Guide • Installation CD

sbenno said: "How about playing a 2GB chromatically sampled piano with 16 layers pedal up/down directly from disk with no polyphony bottlenecks and this while your other full arrangment is played by the style player or MIDI player ?

Polyphony is a word that a Mediastation X-76 owner will quickly forget.

See ya at the NAMM to verify that my claims are not hot air :-)"

How wonderful to have a product that won't be constrained at all by Polyphony issues. Also some of the sounds produced by the X76 should be absolutely stunning in realism. Of course only time will tell if that is really going to be fact or just fiction.

In regards to the price of the Lionstracs I have this to say (again); With all of the features and innovations (and hopefully great sounds) of the X76 I think the asking price is right about where it should be really. I mean, just LOOK at all of the features (Hardware, Software, Innovations, etc.) and you quickly realize that this is indeed the Ferrari of Workstation Keyboards.

As a comparison look at this Synth Keyboard and you will begin to understand that $5,000 dollars is in the ballpark for X76. Read on:


The Hartmann Neuron is this year's darling of the electronic-music world. It features a unique user interface and unprecedented hands-on control of instrument modeling parameters.

"High on the desirability scale is the most expensive synth on the list, the Hartmann Neuron ($4,995). It's also the most unconventional design, as evidenced by its outward appearance (see Fig. 2). Its striking elegance invites you to sit down and play. The Neuron has only 9 traditional knobs, but it has dozens of buttons and indicator LEDs, 5 joysticks, 13 backlit LCDs, and 14 wheels with LED ladder displays. All knobs and wheels are of the infinite-rotation variety. You switch on the power by pressing a huge illuminated orange button on the rear panel, which is otherwise unoccupied. When the power is on, you hear the whisper of fans cooling the internal 20 GB hard drive.

A beautiful pale wood panel covers the Neuron's right side. All its connections to the outside world are grouped on the left panel: six analog outputs, two analog inputs, a pair of coaxial S/PDIF ports, a stereo headphone jack, three control-pedal ports, three MIDI ports, USB, and an IEC power socket. The USB port enables connection to external hard drives and CD burners as well as computers. The six unbalanced Ό-inch outputs are assignable, and they're labeled as outputs for 5.1 surround sound.

You control pitch bend and modulation with a self-centering, translucent orange plastic joystick, which feels just a bit fragile for such duties. Additional left-hand controllers are the Master Volume knob, an assignable Control knob, and an assignable wheel. You can easily reach all four without lifting your hand.

The Neuron's appearance isn't its only remarkable feature; its sound and architecture are likewise out of the ordinary. The Neuron resynthesizes sampled sounds and then lets you select from a list of Models. You sculpt the sound by manipulating whatever parameters appear most suitable for it; exactly what parameters are available depends on the Model you select. Because the choice of parameters depends on the nature of the sound itself, many of the front-panel controls are, by necessity, reconfigurable.

The Neuron is organized into sections that correspond to traditional synthesizer modules. Nonetheless, Neuron users will need to learn a new nomenclature that reflects Hartmann's fresh approach to sound synthesis. Instead of oscillators, the Neuron has Resynators, and the filter and insert effects are lumped together in a section called Silver (because, Hartmann says, they add “a lustrous shine”). Some of the name changes seem unnecessary: the LFO is called Mod, and ADSR EGs are called Shapers — so much for standardization. Your first stumbling block in learning the Neuron, then, is acquiring a new vocabulary.

Changing the name of the oscillators makes the most sense, because the Resynators do much more than simple oscillators. They are the sound source and its environment, as well as direct access to parameters you use to change their various characteristics. The modeled sound source is called the Scape, which corresponds to resonating strings or vocal chords, for example. Controlling the Scape allows you to govern the attributes that form a sound. The environment from which the sound originates is the Sphere; this might be a violin body, a singer's chest and throat, or the room in which a sound occurs. Because using computer modeling to re-create a stringed instrument is so different from using it to re-create, say, wind and rain, each Model's Scape and Sphere have a different set of parameters.

The Neuron allows you to manipulate the characteristics of the Scape and Sphere in real time, using buttons and joystick controllers, called simply sticks. The sticks are shaped so that you can grab them either with your forefinger and thumb or with only a fingertip. In the corners surrounding the sticks are four LCDs that show a parameter name and its three-digit value. The parameters at opposing corners are opposite characteristics, such as Simple and Complex, SmallBdy and LargeBdy, or MtrSoft and MtrHard. They can also be opposite ends of the same spectrum, such as 000StrTensn and 127StrTensn.

You can record your stick movements to modify parameters in real time and then play them back as a sequence. More often, you'll use an ADSR envelope to modulate parameter values. A button press quickly switches the four displays from Scape to Sphere parameters, and a Parameter Level button switches among three parameter sets for each. Located between the two Resynators is the Blender, which lets you fade from one Model to another, so you can morph from a Hammond B-3 to a bell, for instance, or even from crickets to fire. You can control the transition manually with the Blend wheel or automate it with a Shaper.

The section labeled Silver comprises a resonant multimode filter and two multi-effects processors. As with the Resynators, you control four reassignable Silver parameters with a stick. At least the filter parameters are familiar: cutoff, resonance, mix, and feedback. Accessing the filter menu lets you specify whether the filter type is lowpass (with a choice of three slopes), highpass, or bandpass. Silver's effects are divided into Frequency and Time types. Frequency effects include EQ, compression, distortion, ring modulation, and the like. Time-based effects are stereo spread, delay, phaser, flanger, and chorus. You can use Silver's stick to control an effect's two most important parameters in real time. You can also use it to control panning when the Neuron is in Surround mode.

As I mentioned previously, the three Shapers are ADSR EGs. As with other synths, one envelope normally controls filtering, another controls amplitude, and the third is assignable. For more complex contours, you can combine two Shapers to create an envelope with four levels and four time values. You control each stage's value with wheels on the control panel. Although fine-tuning envelope values with the wheel is easy, I usually prefer sliders; I seldom need to tweak attack time, for instance, by only a millisecond. (Envelope times aren't calibrated in milliseconds, though, but in a range of values from 0 to 127.) Flanking each Shaper wheel is an LED ladder that lets you conveniently view envelope values at a glance. You can control envelope depth with Velocity or Aftertouch.

The section labeled Effects applies delay and reverb to the Neuron's outputs. The stereo delay has a tempo tap function for matching delay time with tempo. The reverb is definitely of the highest quality I've ever heard in a synthesizer, and it's in large part responsible for the sumptuousness of many of the Neuron's factory sounds.

The Neuron ships with 286 included Models, with enough locations for 512. They run the gamut from Ambientpad and Tapestring to Paper and Exhaust; instrumental Models range from Tuba to Telecastr. As I mentioned, each Model has a different set of parameters; one level of the B-3 organ Model, for example, provides the parameters Warm or Cold and Planar or Tubular for the Scape. You can also create your own Model using the included ModelMaker software (Mac/Win). The selected Model also determines the Neuron's polyphony, which maxes out at 24 notes.

The Neuron is 4-part multitimbral and has memory locations for 1,000 sounds, though it currently ships with only 190. Whenever you select a sound, it takes about a second to load — sometimes more and sometimes less, depending on its length and complexity. Many of the sounds are steeped in atmosphere — unidentifiable sources with gradual attacks, awash in heavy reverb. Other than a few acoustic guitars, synth basses, electric pianos, brass instruments, and string ensembles, emulative sounds are in short supply, but I don't mind leaving those duties to other synthesizers. Most of the Neuron's sounds are subtly beautiful and even awe-inspiring. They sound electronic, yet very organic in nature. The Neuron really is like no other instrument I've ever heard."

PS: If the Lionstracs MediaStation X76 or even a X61 MediaStation (61 Keys) comes close to the functionality, features, and sound capability, ie., - (respective to Synth vs more traditional Acoustic sound Workstation/Arranger in the X76) - that the Hartmann Neuron posesses, then yes; I think the price they are asking would be justified imo. Unfortunately by keeping the price in that range they have ultimately shut out the 'vast' majority of Gigging and other Keyboardists. But that's not to say they won't sell any because if all the hype is true they most assuredly will. And I may end up like Terry (trtjazz) and seriously consider getting one myself.

Best regards,
Mike
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Mackie HR824 MKII Studio Monitors, Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro Mixer (made in USA), Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Shure SM58 vocal mic.

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#155721 - 11/15/03 11:10 AM Re: News from the PA1 X Pro
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Mike
thanks for the info about Neuron, I know this product too, for that the price of mediastation is FULLY giustificated too.

About the wheels Pitch and Modulation...unfortunately I have already 150 mediastation X-76, with the 2 wheels at the top. Maybe in future ( IF really all my distributors want) I may change the position, but for now...is to late.

In Mediastation X-76 Opteron, I can change all the position of the wheels and move the Pitch/modulation at bottom.

I had typed some wrong before, our PCB are ready to drive: Pitch + Modulation whells, 2 user programmable whells, 1 Joystik and 1 keypad.

About mediastation X-61, I think is not so easy to made, the PCB mixer 24 stereo channel are to large!

IF you like have it, but WITHOUT CD-DVD drive, then is possible, why I can CUT and reduce this keyboard part to be a 61 key's.

P.S.: the next question, type in the Mediastation forum, why here is the place of the PA1-X pro news. These are not news for PA1-X......or they then killed me.

Regards
Domenik

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#155722 - 11/19/03 07:52 PM Re: News from the PA1 X Pro
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Mike - Gheeeesh !
Another bandwith hungry post. Maybe you can just post a link to the site where you get all this info. Then we can read it if we get time. I appreciate your enthusiasm, but man- you use a lotta words.
Friends.
_________________________
No longer monitoring this forum. Please visit www.daveboydmusic.com for contact info

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