"Hi Domenick,
unfortunately I think it's not because people can't use it, its because EMC doesn't really do that great a job of the conversion"

Thanks for that honest comment Riskibears. I have heard some of these conversions and i honestly have to ask myself if others are hearing what i am hearing !!

But thats what so exciting about this wersi demo of a style conversion because to my ears its sounds very close to the original style played on the original instrument and i congratulate Wersi on spotting a technological advancement that is actually wanted and needed by arranger players in their every day use.

You are right
The EMC use some strange algorithms in the conversion, because have to translate from one source to the destination source format and not the all keyboard will use the same Tracks/patterns.

The best way is make how our Styles T2 to MS Extractor ( and NOT converter) will extract the all patterns NOTE ony to every single midifiles track.
in this way we can have the Real Note line of every patterns, included May, Min, 7th, 7thDim.
16 pattern for 4 chords variation, total 64 Midifiles for one style.( 16X4=64)

The Mediastation arranger right now is able to load/play the all EMC Exported midifile to Seq format and the all single midifiles for each pattern and chords.

After the Note to midifiles export we have only to remap the sounds/volume/chorus/reverb... in the MS arranger editor BUT we don't lose any melodic line of the pattern.
This DO NOT mean that the MS will sounds same like the T2 styles, because we have a different sounds palette to setup.

If the Wersi is working in this way too, then they really choose the right way.
The Wersi arranger in this system can really sounds like the T2 too.

Pity only that the all others embedded brands will not open the system like us and offer you a new advanced open arranger.

Hi Domenick,
sounds great the way you're going about it.

A couple functions I'd luv as a standard in a pattern are
controller 64 sustain ( my ketron has it, my psr doesn't) makes piano patterns sound choppy when a style is converted from one that uses sustain to one that doesn't.
Tempo change, again Ketron uses tempo changes in the Intro's & Endings I'm fairly certain PSR's can't ( within the style itself)
Muliple time signatures ie have a 3/4 in one pattern , a 4/4 in another. OMB as a realtime arranger allows this, but unfortunately doesn't work if the same style is then used in a psr keyboard.
All the different brands have their pluses & minuses in their style structure, by the sounds of things you can create what you want.

Keep listening to your clients.
( unfortunately for time being I can't be one, maybe one day)

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by LIONSTRACS:
[B]You are right
The EMC use some strange algorithms

[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 11-21-2006).]

Hi Spalding,
don't get me wrong, I'd be lost without my EMC.
It's the only way I can convert styles from my prior keyboards to my current one. I normally don't use the conversion process though. I usually use export style to midifile, do any editing required in a sequencer, then use midifile to style function in my OMB software for creating a psr style, (or I could use midifile to style function in EMC itself).
For my SD1 I actually use a pc sequencer to record the midifiles across to the sd.
Discovered EMC deletes controllers on SD
patterns.

As for straight conversions, a lot of them are pretty bad. It may depend on what keyboard your converting from & too.
In all fairness it must be pretty hard for emc to keep up with all the new keyboards.

best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by spalding4:
[B

Thanks for that honest comment Riskibears. I have heard some of these conversions and i honestly have to ask myself if others are hearing what i am hearing !!

People you are wrongfully blaming EMC ..This is great software..

The reason the "bad" sounding styles come about...the method of the sounds from the original manufacturer's sounds..For example, with the Ketron X1, the styles conversions that used the strum guitars never did sound right..the fault was the design of the strums..EMC remaps and re-formats the style..it does not edit the sounds...If a converted sound doesn't work..edit the style, or move on...there are a zillion styles to choose from..

Personally I think EMC styleworks is a major reason why top line Arranger keyboards have been so popular..

as I always say " a style is a style"..I would "Not" buy an arranger because I didn't or did like the on board styles..

Just my opinion in support of my old friend Klaus..

Hi Fran,
me personally, I'm not referring to sounds.

For instance, on my SD1, it removes controller 11 from the first beat in a bar
clock 1.0.000.
Normally not a big deal but I never know the default is, because it doesn't show up example: a string chord starts first beat of the bar & does a gradual fadeout, the first that controller 11 can show up is past clock 1.0.004. If the note starts on clock 1.0.000 I'm going to get a glitch.

Quite often when controller 11 is used in a style , strings start really loud for a fraction of a second, then you get this quick drop off in sound ( sounds like a glitch) then it does a smooth fadeout.

Another instance ( SD1 again) if I do happen to convert, my psr styles have to be converted to roland format first, then to sd1 format if I want to have any controllers left in the style at all.

If you have the "plus package" activated (which gives list edit of the style), try loading a psr style with controllers in it. Convert it to sd1 format. Save, load it back in & check the tracks in list edit, the controllers will have disappeared.

If there's one brand that could really benefit, it's the Ketron using EMC with Plus Package for list editing. A lot of the other brands in the top of the line include some sort list edit function for styles . Ketron doesn't.

Main reason why I mainly use EMC to turn a style into a midifile etc etc rather than do a conversion. I need the controllers left in tact.

EMC may well work better for some keyboard formats than others, & even with it's odd quirk here & there , I wouldn't want to be without it. I'd have a house full of old keyboards that I couldn't part with just in case I wanted a style from one of them. Instead I've got a load of old styles that I know I can use if needed because of EMC& the keyboards have gone to owners that wanted them.

best wishes
Rikki



[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 11-21-2006).]

Rikki, I think your example is hardware related again[SD1]..Controller 11 [expression] depends on the maximum setting of the expression..By default the SD1 is 127..Likewise the EMC program is not re designing the style, it is adapting it to conform to the new format [including program changes].
The initial settings will be at default..
Most likely the Roland format readily reads the initial setting quicker and reads the expression correctly..It most likely sets the initial settings , and when the Roland style is reformatted to the SD1..The SD1 reads the properly aligned style, including the Controllers..

It almost sounds like I know what I am talking about...but I am close

Hi Fran,
quite possibly.

I realize EMC is not a designing tool, but the plus package does make it a defacto editing tool ie it gives a full list edit
( similar to microscopic edit in Roland keyboards) It allows the deletion of individual notes & controllers & also notes & controllers can be modified. The only thing that can't be done is additional notes or controllers added to the tracks.
It's great.

My gripe really is that when converting from certain formats to ketron (ie yamaha for one) all controllers are removed not just at the beggining of the style part. ie
if a yammie style has a fade in or out, and it's converted to ketron,
they appear to exist after initial conversion , but after saving the sd conversion & and then reloading it back into EMC , they've all dissapeared.

Ketron ( as you are probably aware) is more than capable of having controllers like expression throughout the pattern. Fade ins fade outs etc maybe it's just a bug in the software & I should complain to Klaus ( haa haa) in my dealings with him, he's always been great.

Apologies to Liontracs for going off topic.

Fran, maybe we aught to move the topic before we get ourselves into trouble.

best wishes
Rikki
p.s.
I luv discussing styles & EMC, though it's never a topic that appears to crop up. Have you tried Klaus's Style Factory??
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fran Carango:
[B]Rikki, I think your example is hardware related again[SD1]..Controller 11 [expression] depends on the maximum setting of the expression..By default the SD1 is 127..

Rikki, you trying to get me banned here...again

Hi Fran,
DEFINATELY NOT!!!
Kinda missed you when you dissapeared last time.
Kinda female thing, you should have learnt , females always have to have the last word. haa haa

If the rumours I'm reading are true about your latest toy , a big congratulations, I'm soooo jealous.


best wishes
Rikki