Just read the latest review (by Julian Colbeck) on the Yamaha 9000pro in the current issue (May 2002) of Electronic Musician . The topic of my posting here has less to do with Mr. Colbeck’s review of the 9000pro itself (very good – excellent overall), but more about the commentary he makes about us: arranger keyboard players. Being a professoinal arranger keyboard musician myself, I have to admit that many of Mr Colbeck’s views have also been expressed to me by some of my pro musician colleages as well, though I certainly don’t agree with many of them.

Please comment on the following quotes I extracted from Mr Colbeck’s review:

“Germany is the place where Styles rule supreme; whole aisles of the Frankfurt Musikmesse are taken up by companies that produce nothing but third party Style content for instruments from Yamaha, Roland, Technics, and others. Accordingly, among some reasonably hip and 'American-sounding' beats and grooves is an awful lot of oompah-ish material, appeal of which beyond the bierkellers of the Black Forest is questionable. The 9000 Pro is tailor-made for the German market.”

“ Yamaha isn’t marketing the 9000 Pro as a professional synthesizer, but the instrument offers several pro-level features.”

“Why it is that the concepts of auto-accompaniment is terminally un-hip, whereas the notion of retriggering backings that other people have produced (such as sample loops) has become totally cool, is one of life’s little imponderables. Auto-accompaniment began life in fox trot and beguine territory, of course, but styles have progressed tremendously since then, largely thanks to Korgs’s i-Series of instruments.”

“I’ve noticed the arranger-keyboard fraternity expects Style providers to trawl popular songs for inspiration. That fixation on existing song material is annoying and one of the reasons why such keybord have a bad rap among pro musicians. If arranger-type instruments provided feels and grooves that were fresh and free, their appeal would be broadened. Of course, my opinion is one of personal taste, if you play dinner sets in a hotel lounge, you’ll porbably be extremely happy with what the 9000pro has to offer”

“Yamaha is hoping that the omission of built-in speakers and the addition of some cool new sounds will help the 9000 Pro appeal to professional musicians ranging from working performers to budding film composers. It will do so to an extent, but I’m not entirely sure the specter of cheesiness has been eradicated for the average American pro player. If you you’ve long admired auto-accompaniment instruments but never quite had the guts to admit it, however, now is a great time to jump in.”

footnote: Julian Colbeck runs Keyfax Software, the company that produces TwiddlyBits midi sample loop libraries and the PhatBoy Midi performance controller. http://www.keyfax.com/

- Scott

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http://scottyee.com

The man is on the edge of reality at least.
9000, 2000 and Pro have the best selection of useable Country/Western styles of any of the arrangers. Must be some Cowboys in Germany.
DonM

morning Scott

Nice of you to post that article here - with its (cough) balanced approach to the question of whether or not arranger keyboard players should be allowed to live or even(god forbid) perform in front of an audience!

As usual - it seems so important for sanity sake - to keep the business of music separate from the philosophy and bias discussions. Any essay re: the pitfalls of arrangers that uses either 'common practice' or 'pro musician preference' to support their argument - has zero effect on any real life situation except perhaps to irritate someone's ego on this forum - un-necessarily.

Humanity has a tremendous musical heritage and tradition achieved by the continuous passing along of songs - structure - harmonic content - melody - and rhythms. This is a tradition carried on by arranger keyboard players - in a fashion which allows audiences to hear songs they love, songs that bring back youth and simpler times, songs that bring our emotions into sharper focus, songs which bring people together in the recognition of shared experience at a point in time........ Arr. KB folks do this- at a low cost -mid volume - and on a much smaller stage!!

The face of an old woman smiling as she regards the melody of a song which took root and meaning at some point in her life - reflects a universe value that transcends what anyone will ever write about the way that song was played.

Mike H

I guess stuff like this should tick me off a little, but instead I almost have to laugh at it, even if it's with a snicker. I kinda get a kick out of some of the guys who belittle arrangers and yet do modern dance / synth stuff that is so reliant on using sample loops of other material that has long been out there. Oh my God, what a joke that is. The thing is, I CAN play mostly anything I hear or want to hear / compose on my instrument in real time at the drop of a hat ( some pieces obviously require practice ). Can they ? I'm guessing some can but then again why all the need for sampling / resampling of material that has already been there and done that ? Sure there are cool loops / arpeggios that are unique to synths and that would be virtually impossible to play in real time, but what about the rest of it ? Then again, the footnote you posted is the most telltale of all Scott. We have to keep it in perspective based on the source

Arrangers for me do two things. At first I used them mainly for an aid to composing and playing my own stuff. I just don't need to play, or in the case of certain instruments like drums, sequence EVERY note of every measure to make a good song. It's a waste of my valuable time. Now that I am doing live work again, I can do so much with a good arranger board. ( Arrangers in today's form weren't even available the last time I played live ) I believe that a good entertainer can entertain, whether he / she is using a 9000 pro, a PA80, a kazoo, or good jokes and stories. That is an ability unto itself. It certainly helps to have the right tools specific to your type of entertainment, but the tools themselves do not make the entertainer. How many people in an audience would really care ( or even know ) whether there favorite singer or band's keyboard player is using a Triton, 9000 pro or a PA80 ? Some people are curious where all the sound comes from because there are only two of us in my current act ( or in some cases just me alone ), but years ago, when I was in a full live band, only other musicians themselves ever seemed to notice what type of keys I played.

AJ



[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 04-25-2002).]

Wow, Mike, that's deep, and true, and very well-said.
DonM

Bluesplayer

"How many people in an
audience would really care ( or even know ) whether there favorite singer or band's keyboard player is using a
Triton, 9000pro or a PA80 ?"


I'll agree to that for sure!!

The critical comment is this:

“I’ve noticed the arranger-keyboard fraternity expects Style providers to trawl popular songs for inspiration. That fixation on existing song material is annoying and one of the reasons why such keybord have a bad rap among pro musicians. If arranger-type instruments provided feels and grooves that were fresh and free, their appeal would be broadened. Of course, my opinion is one of personal taste, if you play dinner sets in a hotel lounge, you’ll porbably be extremely happy with what the 9000pro has to offer”

I think the major problem with a number of professional musicians (usually to be found in bedrooms or studios) can be summarised in two words.

Cover Versions.

There has always been an opinion out there that cover versions are un-hip and not worth demeaning yourself with when you could be doing "original stuff" and "not using just the presets".

I consider this to be musical snobbery. Having said that, some pro's who I've met consider that I'm involved in the musical equivalent of prostitution because I happily admit to playing songs I don't like because I know that audience happen to love the tune. I also attepmt to play every tune (whether I like it or not) to the best of my ability. Surely this is a different aspect of "Professional"?

There are a huge number of pro's who find themselves (through choice, circumstance, finance, inability to get on with guitarist / sick of rehearsing with said guitarist to discover he's good at Jimi Hendrix but no use for Frank Sinatra) playing to audiences who require cover versions. Playing original material to such audiences is a fast way to discover the term "paid off".

Arranger keyboards adjust the logistics of entertainment so that a one-person-band can entertain a crowd as well as anyone else.

So what's wrong with that?

.. I once heard someone say "A man dresses for himself, a woman dresses for other women" ... I might add "kb players buy kbs for other musicians..." let's face it ... besides buying what WE want to play and hear, to some extent we are looking to impress OTHER people, and the only ones who are going to be impressed are OTHER MUSICIANS .... I've seen audiences in a lounge having a great time and thoroughly enjoying a vocalist who was performing with a KARAOKE machine as back-up .... did they care what KIND of machine it was?!?!? ... I doubt it.... .... if you can get away with using a Casio, and you are pleasing the crowd, they won't know, or care, and more power to you.....
t.

One of my clients who hires Arranger guys twice a week put in a 16 piece band last Saturday. The band was very good...Dorsey, Miller, Kenton, Basie, Ellington, etc. (Talk about Styles....)

The band was great. The place sold 146 tickets and paid the band $2,000. On a normal saturday we will have 130 to 200+ people and the entertainment (singles and duos using arranger KBs) costs the club 15% of what the big band charged.

From the Club's perspective, going with the Arranger guys is an economical no-brainer. But this is a club that wants to provide variety for its members, even if some of the events lose money for them.

Its about Entertainment.

Now, you ask: "How does that relate to Mr. Colbeck's article?"

Beats me.

As Everyone has said it so well, I would just like to add.
I guess if I was playing in a 3 or more piece band & was loosing gig's all the
time to one man band's or duo's I would dislike arranger keyboards also.
As far as Mr. Colbeck goes.
Mr. Colbeck can take his Keyfax software & stick it where the Sun DON'T shine
& I will stick with my oompa-ish 9000 PRO, & we will both be happy. ( At least I will )
Enjoying the 9000 PRO Oompa-ish A one and da 2 and da 1-2-3
Denny