I'm planning to purchase a new desktop PC again now, especially since the new quad core processors are begining to fall in price.

Realizing that Windows Vista was only released 7+ months ago, and that initially, there was Vista driver incompatibility with certain hardware & software, wondering if it's it's now recommended to purchase a PC with Vista Home Premium, as (like it or not) nearly all new PCs now only come pre-installed with Vista. As far I know, only Dell still offers you the choice of XP or Vista pre-installed. so, here's my CURRENT consideration:

Dell XPS 410 (approx. $1,450 US dollars with the following):

* Intel® Core™ 2 Q6600 Quad-Core (8MB L2 cache,2.4GHz,1066FSB)
* 2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 800MHz - 2 DIMMs
* 256MB NVIDIA GeForce 8600GT-DDR3
* 320GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
* Sound Blaster® X-Fi™ XtremeGamer (D) Sound Card

Are there any known Windows programs or hardware currently incompatible with Vista?

Here are just a few 3rd party programs I currently run on my current PC running XP:

SOFTWARE:

Microsoft Word 2002
Microsoft Frontpage 2002

Cakewalk Sonar
Yamaha XG Works
Smartscore 5

Michael Bedesem's Yamaha Utility Programs
* MusicFinder View
* Stylemaker
* Midiplayer

Jorgen Sorenson's Programs:
* Split & Splice
* Stylefile Renamer 1.2

Registration Memory Editor v1.2 (Kim Winther)

EMC Styleworks 2000 Universal

Yamaha:
Tyros2 Voice Editor
Yamaha USB Midi Driver

HARDWARE:

Presonus Firebox
HP Deskjet 970CSE
Canon CanoScan D1250U2F Scanner
Plextor 712UF
Maxtor One Touch II External 300GB HD

Anyone running any of the above software or hardware on Vista?

Ok, what's recommended now: purchasing a new PC with Vista (which I hear offers better security & new features) or sticking with XP?

Lastly, another (more expensive?)consideration is going with an Intel processor Apple Mac desktop running Windows Vista/XP utilizing 'Bootcamp' Apple software.

Thanks in advance for all feedback & advice.


Scott

Scott I tried putting Vista on my new machine(dual core 2.8 gighz AMD athlon) 2 gig RAM bla bla bla.

the problems i had were: it blue screened once during the installation. tried again - it worked, then it blue screened after about 10 mins of just browsing and download small aps and setting up the new OS etc etc.

i couldn't install Cakewalk Sonar on it, i couldn't install a few other games / apps that i needed to use so i gave it the flick..

nice looking OS, some cool features, it does run fast and smooth but as far as product and application compatibility goes, its worse than a Mac at the moment...

Hi Nick, wow, really sorry to hear about all the trouble you experienced with Vista on your new PC. I'm wondering if it had anything to do with the fact that you're running an AMD athlon chip, not an Intel. Have you been able to solve the problem with a Clean Install (aka: refomatting HD), and re-installing Windows XP? - Scott

Nick.....My Next computer WILL be a NEW MAC, many people I know just love them and wouldn't think of a PC again......
Im done with PC after this one also.
Vista = problems....that's all Ive heard from people who have it regarding compatibility with some many programs and more.

yeh Scott i fixed it, reformatted the drive and put XP pro back on - problem fixed, everything back to 'normal'.

Donny, i love macs, love em to bits but it always comes down to the compatibility issue.

i am extremely fluent with Cakewalk Sonar so i prefer to use it over anything else (ie cubase, fruity pro, etc etc) but Sonar wont go on macs unless u use things like VMware (vurtualisation) which i dont want to do.

also regarding the Athlon chip Scott, that should have nothing to do with what applications can be installed on the OS. the blue screening suring initial install - yes that 'could' have been a conflict with the motherboard / processor.

as far as security goes... i dont run any anti virus. i only go to websites that are obviously not malicious. I have 2 HHDs in my machine. one has my OS and apps on it, the other has all my data / files / music / movies etc etc.

i may get a virus once a year. if i do, i reformat the drive that windows is sitting on and then re install.. the entire process of formatting, installing windows and my other apps takes no longer than 2-3 hours.

I work for an IT security company where we specialize in Anti virus and from my experience on personal home users PCs all it does is drastically slow the machine down not only on boot up but on everything in general.

if you are not stupid and take notice of what is happening on your machine the chances are u will be fine...

i recommend Antivirus to users who go to alot of porn sites, gambling, crack sites, download alot of P2P from limewire etc.

Nick

Hi All
I also had the necessity to reformat and reinstall XP recently. You say it took 2-3 hours!
In my case it took 2-3 days!
Unfortunately, the problem was the Service Pack 2, which if you don't get it reinstalled straight away after resurrecting Windows O/S causes lots of error notices and switchoffs.
I had to reformat 3 times and reinstall XP 4 times, because if you don't get the SP2 on your HD, in my case anyway, the bootup after reinstall just goes into repeat mode and could have gone on for ever!
Just thought I'd make this note for anyone else thinking of reinstalling XP.
cheers
Eddie Johnson



------------------
Eddie from Rotherham
Skype:eddiefromrotherham
www.yamahakeyboards.info

A new Intel Mac is starting to look better and better for musicians now that Apple have dropped the price of their TOTL audio app, Logic Pro 8, by half...

You can now get a complete studio app, all the plug-ins you need (very high quality, from all accounts), all the Virtual Instruments you need (ditto), an app to play those VSTi's live, standalone, a pro convolution reverb, and numerous enhancements all at about $500. A pro convolution reverb alone is worth nearly that...

Add to that distributed audio processing (add more computers for more power) and latency down to about 1.5ms round-trip with certain hardware, and (drum roll, please...) NO DONGLE... Serial# only for two installations. This thing is close to a Cubase/Sonor killer...

Oh yes, and of course, you can boot into Windows (or run it in VMWare or Parallels) if you REALLY miss those pesky trojans and spyware...

On my parents brand new Vista, I was able to get Word 2002 and style split and splice to work, but Stylemaker would not work.

Beakybird

Hi Scott
There are still issues with some older software and hardware, so check on the manufactures web sites to see if the hardware and software you want to use is suitable, or can be upgraded to work with Vista.
My recommendation if you have the room is keep your old computer and XP and just add the new computer with Vista, (You can use the same monitor and keyboard by just adding a switch box) that way if you do find something that wont work with Vista you can still use it on your old machine. (Network them together and you will be able to transfer files as if it was one machine, you can also use your old machine as an additional firewall when connecting to the net)

To All
NEVER connect to the internet without some form of security installed, and make sure you keep it up to date (There are many good quality free apps out there) or you will have problems. (When you see the tears in the customer’s eyes, when you tell them that you have not been able to retrieve any of their treasured photos, after a virus has totally trashed their machine, you will understand why security is important)

Finally
BACKUP, BACKUP, BACKUP, BACKUP, NO EXCUSES don’t wait for a disaster to happen. (Its no good shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted)
Hope this helps

Bill

Or, get a Mac.

Eight YEARS on broadband, NO virus software, ZERO problems...

Think they are a bit expensive? What does eight years of virus protection cost you...? (And pop-up blockers, and spyware scanners, etc..)

They run Windows now (and anything from DOS to Vista, Linux to Solaris) so you can still run your Yamaha apps. Just NEVER talk to the Internet while you are in Windows, and all your virus problems will be a thing of the past.

This isn't a taunt... it's a testimonial. If you are sick of the things that Windows puts you through, if you are tired of worrying whether a simple visit to a web site will hose your drives, take another look at Apple.

The horsepower gap has gone, the price gap is MUCH smaller, and the included apps MORE than make up the price difference. Add in Logic Studio at half price, and it's almost a no-brainer for a musician (who doesn't WANT to be an IT geek)...

iMac 20 "
iMac

Just bought an iMac 20 inch. My only regret is that I didn't buy one sooner. And as Diki mentioned with the Intel processor you can run Windows ( if you really want to ) you can use "Boot Camp" or "Parallels" to run both OS.

Meanwhile, I did upgrade my Dell laptop to Vista since I really need to get familiar with that OS. Short story is after compatibility problems I purchased another hard drive installed that in the laptop then reloaded the original system disks. If I need to run Vista for any reason I just remove the XP drive and pop in the drive with Vista. This can all be done in under a minute. I would seriously consider an iMac they are incredible machines.



[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 09-19-2007).]

just keep in mind that one of the reasons why macs have been so virus free is becuase of the lack of them.

As macs are becoming more popular so will the virus outbreaks be just as common...

alot of antivirus security vendors are now releasing AV anti spyware suites for Mac due to high demand...

Great post, Scott AND thanks to all of you who have added to this thread. This is fantastic information. Very helpful.

AAA+++

Hi Scott:

Just before I left the music store, lots of customers with problems with Midi, USB as devise (T2 and PC), etc...issues that I thinkg they got to far with the "built in Obsolecense"....to pressure users to buy EVERYTHING new.....
I did purchased a Laptop (the first one) with Vistas, NOTHING of my hardware periferals was compatible nor the manufactures of those periferals made drivers for Vista (at least at the time).....so, I returned, and I was lucky in off, that in the Sam's Club near me, at the time still have 2 Un-open Laptops with XP....so, I got one, NO problems at all, go for the XP.
Also, a few months before that, I got also an Imac, the BEST move I ever made....I wish I would have done it before. I got the 20 Inch with 2.4 Ghz just Beautiful, I also purchased the Office for Mac, it was in sale at the time.
But to keep myself in Both plataforms, that is why I got the Laptop.

Hi.

If buy a new PC without Vista, it's a kind of like buy a Tyros1 instead og Tyros2
if you're buying a new keyboard.

The problems people have with Vista, is mainly when they update from XP on a old PC,
using older uncompatible hardware who i.e. miss the right drivers etc.
Also you can get problems if run 16/32 bit software if the rest are 64bit.
A new PC are configured with hardware who won't be any problem in Vista, besides of
that, updates comes regulary from the soft and hardwaremakers.

Myself I run Vista Business 32bit version on one PC, and I'm running old software like
Master Tracks Pro 6, old EMC used in Win98 and EMC2000 without any problems at all.
Installed it just to see if it works, and it does.
Btw, in Vista you can also choose to run software in "XP-mode".

When buy a new PC, you most often keep the one(s) you already have anyway, so if it's
nessesary to wait a bit for a update for any software you have, it would not be any
big issue anyway?

When you're getting used to work in Vista, you'll probably never going back to XP,
just as XP users sheldom reverse to Win98.

Happy Playing
GJ

GJ, I think you are on the money..

The high demand is mostly coming from PC migrators, who just can't believe that a computer actually CAN run without them. The only thing you need to do is update the OS as exploits are detected (that can be done automatically), but the bottom line is that a Unix-based OS is intrinsically less prone to these hacks than a Windows one, that seems to go deliberately out of it's way to make background processes out of the user's control.

Like I said, I am no IT geek. I just make music, surf the web, do email, and come to the forums to post. All without anti-virus and spyware blocker software. Even if Apple hold only ten percent of the market, you would have thought the challenge to hack it would have attracted at least a FEW bad guys (if not ALL of them - nothing whets their appetite like an uncrackable OS!). So far, they have had no luck, and it isn't for lack of trying!

What's peace of mind like that worth to you?

Scott.....The last 2 desk-tops I have, I built with what I wanted in a PC, not what the manufacture's wanted me to have....I tried Vista and don't like it, it does have many unresolved problems.....yes, some o the problems are with old hardware and software.....this issues can be corrected if you check the compatibility with the manufacturer's website. If you build your own, you only get what YOU want in a pc....I
buy many components from www.tigerdirect.com
and they will help you with information from their computer geeks....I happen to be a member of a few geek forums and the info is invaluable....much like the Zone is with
music and musicians....the last one I just finished building is just for music and I also installed Creative Labs Sound Blaster X-FI complete at $560....check out tigerdirect and if you need any help, call or skype me.....
TR

Hello Scott,

Thanks for the topic. I am exploring myselve to verify the compatibilty to go Vista as well and built a new PC based on 64bits only, particularly since Sonar 7 is out now and seems to be 64 bit vista ready.

As I will also go complete the software route I will have to built a fast machine.
But with the possibilites of 64bit vista I can run way more plugins.
Since it will be DAW only and I will use a fresh installation I don't expect much problems though.

Now where do I find a professional sound card with 64bits vista ready drivers?
Apparantly only creative is ready for that but that is not what I am looking for...

I did built a fast PC for my sun this year who is a fanatic gamer based on the latest AMD. Apparantly AMD solved the heat problem as the temperature stays the same even after hours of very heavy gaming.
The AMD are faster as the Intel so I will probably go AMD as well.

As soon as I have found a pro-card vista ready I'll order all components..

Fred

I see an awful lot of the cart getting in front of the horse when people want to use new computers for music.

The best way, IMO, is to get the software and hardware you want, THEN get a computer that runs it. Having the latest, greatest computer is of small consolation if the software (including ALL the plug-ins, VSTi's, utilities, etc.) and the hardware (including sound-cards, accelerator cards like UAD-1, and video cards) have to stay in the box until the dust has settled on all the driver issues, compatibility issues, 64-bit issues, etc., etc..

JMO, yada yada yada...

Well you know diki, that is exactly what I am doing. First verify all the software and pc hardware and then built the PC.
I just decided to install a creative card untill the pro cards have drivers.
I don't want to wait.

Sonar 7 is ready
Reason is ready
Several sonar plug ins are ready
The new creative cards are ready

I add a roland PCR800 controller

I don't think I need much more

Fred

Yep, most of the software I need for my music will only run on XP, not Vista (yet) so I have no choice to with anything else but Windows XP, at least for now.

Ok, thanks to everyone for all the insightful input shared. I've since learned that Windows Vista isn't compatible (yet?) with a number of the programs above which I run regularly so I've decided to stick with XP Pro.

In the meantime, here is what Michael Bedesem, Yamaha keyboard utility software developer programmer advised me regarding running Vista: "As far as I know, the problem of not being able to change the default midi device remains. This effects programs like mine that use the Microsoft multimedia player that they were pushing so hard just a few years ago. I have not heard if MS intends to correct this in a next service release. I have deferred my own planned purchase to see if Vista is improved."

Ok folks: In the meantime, the thing that pushed me into a panic of thinking I need a a new PC appears to have been solved. I was experiencing a problem where out of no where, I would hear a mechanical 'single click' sound inside my PC tower followed my LCD display screen freezing, and the PC processing activity light turning on solid red, of which required me to reboot the PC. After opening up the PC to check for possible dust build up, I immediately noticed that the power cord going into the HD was hanging by a thread, so suspect the problem merely a flaky power connection to the HD. After solid reconnection, I've now run the PC now for a couple of hours with no problem, so 'knock on wood', hope the problem's been solved. I'll keep you posted.

Scott

Scott,

Make a backup of your data and test your HD!

Clicks are in 99% HD related.

Fred

Fred: After backing up the HD, what testing procedure do you recommend I perform? I assume it to be a diagnostic test, right? What utility software do I need to check the hard drive?

That said, the click I experienced was merely 'ONE SINGLE' click, similar to the mechanical sound of a switch turning off. Though I'm not sure, I had figured this the result of power connection to the HD ending abruptly. Anyway, please provide more detailed HD backup & diagnostic testing procedures & software recommended. Many thanks.

Scott

Hi Fred
Up till about 6 – 12 months ago AMD CPUs kicked Intel’s Backside (Butt) both in speed and the amount of heat (Lack) produced, however since the release of the Intel Core 2 Duo etc, the situation has reversed (You will find virtually all top end games machines, and those that require fast processing, now have Intel CPUs) with AMD now looking like a Model T, (OK, perhaps a slight exaggeration, but you get the idea) the Intel Core 2 Duo also consumes less power, and consequently produces less heat.
Hope this helps

Bill

Scott you may want to purchase and run Steve Gibsons "Spinrite"

SpinRite

Hi Scott - you could have just described a "lazy" click that I occasionally hear coming from my PC case. It can happen once or twice per session and depends upon me accessing a particular software or the Internet or whatever, but I've never been concerned enough to narrow it down. I only started noticing it a year or so ago although that's not to say it wasn't there before. I just assume it's the noise of the HD needing to be accessed over a greater physical distance than normal every so often.

John

Hello Scott,

I use Sandra since 1998!
You will be amazed what you can do with it
http://www.sisoftware.co.uk/

Fred

Thanks for the tip Bill,
Definately will have another look at that.

There are numerous other issues I have to find out if I go the Vista route.
Due to the changed audio engine (called RT/UAE) which is kernel/ hardware related audio manafacters need to redesign their hardware as well as there's no real good work around with drivers to get the optimum result. Not even the 32 bits drivers are Vista ready for a lot of the older cards.
(That includes my delta 1010)

On the other hand Vista is in fact a major upgrade which if all components comply will show a much more stable system as ever before and very very much faster! And how about a max of 128Gb ram instead of the max of 4Gb.
All samples in Ram!

About Mac's:
I do not want to cause a Mac/Pc war, but a well built PC with todays Processors smokes any Mac, but I do agree with the Mac users that if you want a ready to go DAW and don't want to built your own PC, your best bet is a Mac.

Stock PC's like Dell/HP etc... are fine for internet and other comsumer applications, but will give you a headache when you start pushing them to the limit with heavy audio and video programs.

Hope to have all info ready next week and order all the components and software upgrade's. (will be Vista Ultimate though)

Fred





[This message has been edited by freddynl (edited 09-20-2007).]

The killer in the deal for me is that some of the Apps / Vsti's that I have are no longer supported. I realize that the major ones I have like The Arturia / Native Instruments will be updated as needed, but I'm quite fond of some of my more obscure, older, and in some cases discontinued apps as well, ( XG works and Live synth Pro for example ) and a fix for at least some of these is highly unlikely.

To that end, I was very fortunate recently. My dedicated music PC ( no internet ) recently took a dive. Something on the motherboard went wrong, but the Hard Drive and Power supply, along with my Audio cards, survived intact. My wife convinced me ( after some prodding ) to go to a large Yard sale a couple of weeks ago. Lo and behold there sat a Tower with a P4 and XP inside.

The seller stated that he was having a problem with the CD drive and sometimes with the serial mouse, but otherwise it seemed to work fine. He said I could have it for $25.00. I didn't even haggle. I took it home, found the problem with the mouse, corrected it, and replaced the CD drive ( it also has a DVD writer ), stuck my soundcards in it, my old harddrive ( now as a backup and extra drive ) and my 2 GB of ram, which was as luck would have it exactly the same as what was in the tower, and Voila.. I'm back up and running, with a newer and faster processor than was in my old machine to boot.

Regards

AJ



[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 09-20-2007).]