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#116724 - 09/03/07 12:12 PM Re: Hands on opinions ..PA800
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
To be fair ... it's not EVERY fill-in, but when they pop up, they sure do make me blink !
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#116725 - 09/03/07 12:45 PM Re: Hands on opinions ..PA800
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Well, that may not be the definitive post, but it sure beats all this denying there's ANYTHING wrong at all...

How about listing the styles that DO have problems...? Secondly, is there a Korg forum where you can ask Korg why these particular styles still have problems? Is there a Korg user forum where users can edit the problem styles, and post fixed versions? And finally, is there a way to replace the ROM styles with edited versions, so all this can go away?

Let's face it, if Uncle Dave says there's a problem, there's a problem.

The trick is, can you get Korg to fix it, or do you have to fix it yourselves? They seem to be pretty good at bringing out upgrades to the OS... Why not upgrade the styles (like Roland did with OS3) and remove this little problem (that is not so little to some)...?
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#116726 - 09/03/07 01:33 PM Re: Hands on opinions ..PA800
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
fwiw, i have owned both the pa1xpro, and the pa800,and the fills were a problem on both units, not so much the timing, but the volume. they always seemed, (were?) a lot louder than the variation you were going from.yes this could be tweaked, but with korgs experience in this field i was very surprised no real changes were apparent (at least to me) on the pa800...the other BIG issue on both the boards was the way korg arranged the effects blocks, with only 2 insert effects available, and also the insert effects not being directly available when creating your own sound, and then trying to access it via midi...in fact the effects issues i spoke about with paolo tramanoni from korg on several occasions, and all he cold get from korg was that was the way korg designed the hardware...its a problem also with the sd1+ in that any sounds you create with insert effects cannot be accessed via midi with the insert effects intact...seems the only brand to accomplish this rather simple system is yamaha.
dennis

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#116727 - 09/03/07 01:41 PM Re: Hands on opinions ..PA800
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Oh, there's a problem alright. The problem is - Korg programmers seemto be trying to show us everything their arrangers CAN do instead of what the SHOULD do. Now, I know that's a loaded statement. No one can predict what everyone will like, but there is a specific change in instrumentation, volume and feel for lots of fills. That's just not what I'm used to.

I swear .... it's like having the Ringo Star quartet during the song and then the Steve Gadd sextet at the fills. I'll work on a solution....mark my words ! lol
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#116728 - 09/03/07 02:00 PM Re: Hands on opinions ..PA800
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
I doubt if Korg could win, as if they fixed the styles that some people complain about, then the ones that currently do not complain, (They haven’t found any problems with the styles) will probably start complaining that the styles no longer do what they want.
A No Win situation

Bill
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#116729 - 09/03/07 02:19 PM Re: Hands on opinions ..PA800
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
One of the problems with as flexible a system as the Korg's (use ANY fill to go to ANY variation) is that, that just isn't how fills work...

Fills, essentially, do one of three things. They either BUILD intensity, into a higher intensity variation, or the LOSE intensity, as they head for a lees busy variation, or they stay the same intensity, to return to the same variation.

Problems will always arise if you use the wrong one at the wrong time (or is that the wrong one at the right time?!), and you use a fill designed to go from a really busy variation to a slightly less busy variation, in a situation where you are going from the simplest variation to the next simplest.

It's nice to have that degree of control (I wish Roland's had it as an option), but you REALLY have to discipline yourself to try to always use the right one, most of the time. Save for the few times you REALLY want to do something out of the ordinary, being consistent with your choice of which fill goes to what variation will probably avoid at least SOME of those 'surprise!' moments.

Is there an 'Auto Fill' option that picks the right fill for you, based on your destination variation? This is the system Roland use, and I find it, most of the time, pretty spot on for transitions, but at the expense of being a bit more predictable (when you don't want it!)...

But it all boils down to one of my main requests to arranger makers (other than a nice Chord Sequencer!)... Instead of four fills, or six or seven (currently the most in a TOTL arranger), the fills would ALWAYS be spot on if there was a separate fill for each and every transition, including fill-to-same.... So this would mean (for a four variation arranger) a total of sixteen fills.

Now, that sounds like a LOT of work for the style creators, but actually, it isn't. The HARDEST thing to do on a style is to create a fill that works for multiple uses. It's a LOT easier to design a fill if you know exactly where it is coming from, and where it will go to. So, although 16 fills would be a bit more work, it actually would take less time to get right...
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#116730 - 09/04/07 04:11 PM Re: Hands on opinions ..PA800
jamman Offline
Member

Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 666
Loc: City of Angels in the golden s...
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
And finally, is there a way to replace the ROM styles with edited versions, so all this can go away?



Everything can be rewritten (everything is RAM like in Korg WKstations - like prog and combi mode).so all 300 plus styles can be replaced(change fills ,intros,variations etc) + also you still have user style slot.

I still think Yammy's 4 fills OTS approach is more practical IMHO(although KORG sounds better in VH,Drum n bass department and overall output).



[This message has been edited by jamman (edited 09-04-2007).]

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#116731 - 09/10/07 11:24 PM Re: Hands on opinions ..PA800
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703

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#116732 - 09/11/07 09:54 AM Re: Hands on opinions ..PA800
renig Offline
Member

Registered: 02/20/00
Posts: 643
Loc: Canada
Here's the same fella doing something a bit harder using plenty of fills, and they all sound in the right place at the right time to me. Check it out, doubters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiE3inr4AOo&mode=user&search=

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#116733 - 09/11/07 02:44 PM Re: Hands on opinions ..PA800
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Renig, I kinda like this guy good to find some music other then middle eastern to give us a sense of the pa800's abilities.....he's definitly into his music, very passionate and doing his thing...love the lighting on his videos & camera angles....the fills are definitly more accurate then on the Pa80 ...good find

Thank You

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