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#110461 - 12/11/02 05:29 AM Couple more likes and dislikes Tyros..
trtjazz Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 2683
The ongoing continuing review...it's the only way I will remember it.

Likes:
The manual is good and straight up, for my simple mind Yammy has made the only manuals I can understand pretty easily. The ctitcism I have on it though is the pictures, which I love in manuals (being worth a thousand words) are not that clearly visible, they could have done a better printing job on the pictures.

Dislikes:
I've not liked the vocal harmonizers on anything ....they sound like harmonizers to me, rather than the real deal. It's a cool concept, but always sounds phony to me. The Tyros IMO is no exception in this department....it's ok, but just that OK.

The other thing is the harmony for voices....hmmmm, there must be something I don't understand about why this has to work this way....to harmonize on a solo voice one has to have a chord going on in the left hand to make it work. One doesn't necessarily need to hear the chord going (left hand) and can be shut off, so that all that is audible is the solo harmonized voice...but I would think that the harmony could be matched to the solo notes somehow. The reason it's somewhat an annoyance is that if one wants to harmonize low notes below the split point it's a problem and runs into the chord structure being played.
Not a big deal, just a bit of an annoyance and I am sure there is some sort of programming reason it has to be this way.
Terry

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 12-11-2002).]
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#110462 - 12/11/02 06:31 AM Re: Couple more likes and dislikes Tyros..
svpworld Offline
Member

Registered: 08/16/00
Posts: 442
Loc: UK
Not sure how you could generate harmonies on solo notes, as the vocal harmony needs to follow the chord structure of the song. A solo note could trigger a simple octaved vocal effect or vocoder effect, but vocal harmony is just that, harmony and hence it is chordal. The only way to sing a harmony is to follow a series of chords? Isnt it?

Simon

p.s. of course you can always program the harmony chords into a song and mute them!

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#110463 - 12/11/02 07:06 AM Re: Couple more likes and dislikes Tyros..
trtjazz Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 2683
Simon,
I was speaking of an instrument rather than a vocal....perhaps something like a 3rd or 5th could be an option? Although I do see the dilema....a major or minor third or 5th....or an augmented perhaps.....ok never mind, now that I think about it a bit more there is no way to do it other than have a chord for it to relate back to.
Terry

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 12-11-2002).]
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Terry
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#110464 - 12/11/02 07:44 AM Re: Couple more likes and dislikes Tyros..
Clif Anderson Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/00
Posts: 532
Terry

There are other ways. The harmonizer, whether vocal or instrumental, needs some context, for example, to determine when to use a minor third instead of a major third. Playing chords is one way, but there are others. Another method is for the harmonizer to just sound the notes you are playing (for vocal harmony). But an easy method is to specify a key signature for a song and let that determine the harmony. All three of these approaches are used in my VoicePrism and most Digitech vocalists.

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#110465 - 12/11/02 07:07 PM Re: Couple more likes and dislikes Tyros..
brickboo Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 2071
Loc: Fruita, Colorado, USA
Terry,

I agree. When I first got my board the harmonizer really got my attention. It is amazing but should be used sparingly in my opinion.

I just use it like on "After The Loving" at the end of the bridge to repeat the word "someone."

Of course it's good on things like "Cab Driver" and many tunes but it shouldn't be used with caution.

I even tried playing my sax with it and it just doesn't sound right. To me it sounds like someone growling the harmony.

Incidentally after playing for a couple of years when I began in 1893, I was told about growling in the sax. I did this for maybe 6 months. It gets old too. I may growl a note or two here and there on Night Train and Honky Tonk.

But to me growling has no place in real music. It's just a gizzmo thing for special effects on a tune here and there in my opinion. Growling on every tune reminds me of someone who really can't play. It's just like when you first learn to play. You really can't so you turn the volume up real loud. Ha! Ha!
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#110466 - 12/11/02 07:11 PM Re: Couple more likes and dislikes Tyros..
trtjazz Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 2683
Quote:
Originally posted by Clif Anderson:
Terry

There are other ways. The harmonizer, whether vocal or instrumental, needs some context, for example, to determine when to use a minor third instead of a major third. Playing chords is one way, but there are others. Another method is for the harmonizer to just sound the notes you are playing (for vocal harmony). But an easy method is to specify a key signature for a song and let that determine the harmony. All three of these approaches are used in my VoicePrism and most Digitech vocalists.


Cliff,
Thanks for the tips, I can put those to good use.
Terry
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Terry
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#110467 - 12/11/02 07:12 PM Re: Couple more likes and dislikes Tyros..
trtjazz Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 2683
brick,
Yeah I'm not totally thrilled by vocal harmonizers myself as I mentioned. You make some good points.
Terry
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jam on,
Terry
http://www.artisans-world.com/

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#110468 - 12/11/02 07:48 PM Re: Couple more likes and dislikes Tyros..
Joe Waters Offline
Member

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 225
Loc: Sterling, VA USA
Terry, I'm not sure this will help with what you are trying to do, but the TYROS also has a full keyboard mode. Playing in that mode, the "chord" can be triggered by a combination of notes in the left and right hand. In fact, the right hand alone can play the chord. When playing in this mode the chord only changes when three or more keys are pressed simultaneously. If you are playing single notes, in either hand, the chord remains set at whatever it is. Of course, for the harmony, you do need to produce a chord.
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#110469 - 12/11/02 08:50 PM Re: Couple more likes and dislikes Tyros..
trtjazz Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 2683
Joe,
Thanks for the thoughts.
Terry
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jam on,
Terry
http://www.artisans-world.com/

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#110470 - 12/11/02 11:27 PM Re: Couple more likes and dislikes Tyros..
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
I really LIKE the Tyros 'Vocal harmonizer' and think it's a substantial improvement in sound over the PSR2000's. So if you like the PSR2000's vocal harmonizer, you're really gonna LOVE the one on the Tyros. The individual harmony voices sound cleaner, and more distinct (imho). I feel it's on par with my stand alone Digitech Vocalist Workstation. - Scott
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