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#105225 - 03/21/07 04:49 PM Re: Tryos 2 drum kits, can someone please post examples?
Nick G Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 1042
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Quote:
Originally posted by squeak_D:
Thanks Mike. I have to be honest though. Those sounds are "not" what I would expect to find on a keyboard that cost over $3,000... With all do respect Yamaha really needs to get their heads out of their backsides on this issue.

So what if the unit has SA voices, ect. The drums are quite weak IMO. They lack any real punch. They're too "dry", and over processed. The sound has been stripped of natural effects. That really brings up more questions. If the tyros drums are "digital samples" how could they sample a kit and NOT get natural effects such as snare buzz????? That makes no sense. They would have to dismantle the kit, and sample the toms, and bass drum unattached, or the released the snare switch on the snare drum itself prior to sampling. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Plus the "rolls" showcased were extremely "mechanical". They lacked any real dynamics. Sounded like a "snare machine gun" If there are dead give-a-ways to a Yamaha drum kit, it's the rim shot, snare, and ride cymbals. If Yamaha is using drummers to program the drum styles then I'd suggest they hire some new people.

Thanks for posting Mike.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 03-19-2007).]


Squeek how u going mate its been a while???

seriously i reccon you are looking into it wayyy too much... every person who i have met who have heard me play the T2 live (and im talking musicians who have been in the game for over 30-40 years)always comment on how good and real those drums sound...

in a live performance no one will ever notice those aspects that you have picked up on..

Seriously you have had someone sent you samples to play in the silence of your studio, you have probably played them over and over, paused, rewind etc etc to find the in perfections...

its a different sound to Roland/Korg/Ketorn everyone must agree on that... but still a great sound that no Yamaha owners worry about... i still think you need to sit down and play one for your self (not using the Tyros speakers)and not an MP3 or WAV file on your PC...

I still also think Roland and Korg need to sack their team who design their acoustic guitar sounds.. they are nothing near the quality of the Yamaha Mega nylon/steel guitars... and in my opinion acoustic guitars are one of the most important components of a backing arrangement. about 99% of songs have an acoustic guitar or electric guitar strumming somewhere in the background...

then again Roland/Korg guitars are in no way shocking or terrible, they are in fact very much up there in realism but if u wanna be picky and compare, they are years behind Yamaha.
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#105226 - 03/21/07 06:36 PM Re: Tryos 2 drum kits, can someone please post examples?
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4643
Loc: West Virginia
People can call me picky if they want, but you know it takes a drummer to pick out those things at times. When I hear styles, I personally listen for the "little things" such as the nuances within the drum track. I can easily tell if snare buzz, or other nuances are inside a drum track when hearing a style. That's also why I raised so much cane about the Yamaha SA guitars. Sure the raw sample itself is beautiful and the volocity switching is also done very well, but the "string slide" noise is wrong. Again it also takes a guitar player to pick that out.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 03-21-2007).]
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#105227 - 03/21/07 06:42 PM Re: Tryos 2 drum kits, can someone please post examples?
Nick G Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 1042
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
I get what your saying but the other thing you have to keep in mind is that your not listening to a live Drummer...

your listening to a performance done in realtime from an electronic keyboard...
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#105228 - 03/21/07 06:46 PM Re: Tryos 2 drum kits, can someone please post examples?
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4643
Loc: West Virginia
Keep in mind Nick that it's those "nuances" such as velocity switching that make a drum track sound live and like a REAL drummer. That's why Roland's drum tracks are so much more dynamic, and so "live". It's not only the drum kits themselves, but the people who program the styles.
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GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

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#105229 - 03/21/07 06:53 PM Re: Tryos 2 drum kits, can someone please post examples?
Bluezplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2195
Loc: Catskill Mountains, NY
Diki,

None of the boards I've had that had sampling capabilities were particularly user friendly for me, vs using a dedicated sampling unit or a vst plug-in. This includes the PA80, Motif "Classic" and Motif ES, and the Tyros. I tried using the sampling functions in each one of these and always walked away frustrated. My experience with the plug in boards in the Motif's ( and for a brief time the PSR9000 ) aren't much better. Though they both have some wicked great sounds ( I have the VL and AN boards ), they don't mesh particularly well with the hardware, and in the case of the AN board, the editing capabilities are extremely limited without using external software. I find this to be very dissatisfying, as the Mo ES itself has adjustable knobs and sliders.. almost a must for the dedicated analog player, yet I can control very few of the plug ins' numerous parameters with them...

The T2 serves a purpose for me, hence it is still here and will likely be for a while. But.. I also like making beats and sounds up "on the fly". Unfortunately, none of my hardware boards are particularly good for this... It can be done in any of them, and the Motif ES is geared for it to a degree, but it's hardly worth the effort as opposed to the ease of doing so using an app like FL Studio and some of the soft synths I have, or just playing some of the drum patterns live, which I've been working a lot on and have been getting a little better at.

AJ



[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 03-21-2007).]
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#105230 - 03/21/07 07:30 PM Re: Tryos 2 drum kits, can someone please post examples?
Nick G Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 1042
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Quote:
Originally posted by squeak_D:
Keep in mind Nick that it's those "nuances" such as velocity switching that make a drum track sound live and like a REAL drummer. That's why Roland's drum tracks are so much more dynamic, and so "live". It's not only the drum kits themselves, but the people who program the styles.


Squeak, send me the files you are listening to of the T2 drum demos. nickgalea83@optusnet.com.au

T2 definitely has velocity switching drums sounds...
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Roland G70 / Roland BK9 / Yamaha Motif XS6 / Logic Pro X

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#105231 - 03/21/07 08:00 PM Re: Tryos 2 drum kits, can someone please post examples?
Yamiguy Offline
Member

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 38
Hey Squeek,
I dont know if you've already seen the T2 demo by michel V, but here it is...theres some drum stuff on here but not a lot. Sure is a nice board! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Faivpz7cjo8

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#105232 - 03/21/07 11:30 PM Re: Tryos 2 drum kits, can someone please post examples?
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4904
Loc: English Riviera, UK
I have posted them before but here they are again.
The Wersi Real Drums are Real drum kits played by a Real drummer, (Most manufactures styles use sequenced drum samples) and then looped to make the style, consequently they are really accurate, so have a listen to give you an idea of what a recording of a Real drummer sounds like.
I have posted the Wersi Real Drums purely for comparison purposes, NOT for mine is better then yours argument.
Enjoy

Bill
http://download.yousendit.com/223A7D4E10D86D23
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English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#105233 - 03/22/07 01:40 AM Re: Tryos 2 drum kits, can someone please post examples?
Nick G Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 1042
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Quote:
Originally posted by keybplayer:
Okay, here is another MP3 file that I made of the Tyros Drum Kits. I tried to include every Drum Kit type of the Tyros into the file.

I think this is more of what SqueakD wanted i.e. different Kits showcasing the different sounds and nuances of each kit and also how convincing and realistic they sound.

>> Tyros Drums Take Two

The Kits in order are:
1. Standard Kit1
2. Symphony Kit (two part)
3. Live! Pop Latin Kit
4. Live! Cuban Kit
5. Live! StyStandard Kit + Percussion
6. Live! Studio Kit
7. Dance Kit
8. Analog Kit
9. Brush Kit (two part)
10. Live! Standard Drums
11. Room Kit
12. Electro Kit
13. StyFunk Kit + Percussion
14. Rock Kit
15. Hit Kit
16. Jazz Kit

Enjoy!

Best regards,
Mike



How about the Live! Power kit1 and Live! power Kit 2???

they are the two kits that are in a complete different league over the other tyros 2 drum kits... these are the kits I am mainly referring to when I say how great the yammy drums are and how under rated they are...

Squeak until you hear these drum kits you couldn't possibly make an educated/executive opinion on the quality of the yammy drums..
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Roland G70 / Roland BK9 / Yamaha Motif XS6 / Logic Pro X

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#105234 - 03/22/07 02:33 AM Re: Tryos 2 drum kits, can someone please post examples?
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4643
Loc: West Virginia
Nick,
I've had my hands on just about every Yamaha semi-pro and pro arranger up to the Tyros 1. I've owned a few Yammies too. I can say from my experience (all the way up to the Tyros 1), Yamaha's drums have IMO always lacked in dynamics and in some cases realism.

I posted this topic because I "wanted" to hear the kits on the T2 since I can't find one locally. If the T2 has velocity switching then great. However Nick, keep in mind I'm also a drummer. So I'm going to be a little more picky about my personal needs and what I require from a keyboard. One thing I will not budge on is good quality drum kits, and IMO Roland has always deliverd over Yamaha in this area.

It also doesn't take a drummer to listen to a sample and tell if the nuances are there. You can clearly hear in Roland Demos those nuances are there, and the tracks are full of dynamics. IMO Yamaha's tracks are over quantized and lack the live feeling due to limited kits, over quantizing, and too much compression.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 03-22-2007).]
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GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

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