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#101966 - 07/22/03 10:07 AM Genesys Pro is impressing!
Anonymous
Unregistered


Today I heared in a keyboardshop in the
Netherlands a Genesys Pro.
With a good PA it sounds impressing.When you
are looking for a new arrangerkeyboard take
a look at the Genesys Pro!

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#101967 - 07/22/03 12:19 PM Re: Genesys Pro is impressing!
Mainer Offline
Member

Registered: 10/16/02
Posts: 414
Loc: Saco, Me
I do not have the PRO but do have the regular Genesys and enjoy it more day by day.


Jerry

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#101968 - 07/22/03 01:08 PM Re: Genesys Pro is impressing!
PaulD Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 258
Loc: Eugene, OR
For those that haven't seen the genesys online video or heard the genesys PRO audio demo, here is the link: http://www.generalmusic.us/Pro/genesysPro.htm

------------------
Paul Davis
Generalmusic
Generalmusic.US
_________________________
Paul Davis
Generalmusic
Generalmusic.US

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#101969 - 07/22/03 03:22 PM Re: Genesys Pro is impressing!
Idatrod Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/02
Posts: 562
Loc: Oceanside, CA USA
Interesting, Hmmmm. There is nary a Genesys Pro anywhere. In fact I couldn't find one anywhere! ie., Sam Ash, Guitar Center, Music123.com, Zzounds.com, etc., etc., etc. The Genesys Pro must be an extreme Niche market made available only after an excruciating search by a potential customer by which time he or she or most people would be fed up and start looking for an Arranger that a Major Music Retailer or Major Online Music Store would actually have in stock.

Sorry Paul D. I know it's not your fault.

But don't you guys WANT to sell the Genesys Pro? How can you sell it in quantity and people actually buy it unless you make it available to the masses? Or have you given up already after hearing Korg was releasing the new Pa1X/Pro? "Okay guys, here's the deal. Korg is releasing this new Arranger that is suppose to the the Mother of all Arrangers and it may be actually true. What we at GEM will do is sit back and hold back on the marketing and production of the Genesys Pro and test the waters to see if the rumors are true about this Pa1X/Pro that Korg is releasing at Summer NAMM. If they turn out to be true were gonna be up a creek without a paddle fellas. So we'll hold off on marketing until we confirm one way or the other if the new Pa1X/Pro IS the Mother of all Arrangers, and if it is; say bye bye to the Genesys Pro and we'll have to bust a gut and get back to the drawing board and come up with something that will compete." In the mean time your pink-slips will be waiting for a number of you when you get off from work today. We'll call you when we have a product that will make GEM proud again and can compete with these Mother of All Arrangers we keep hearing about. Until then don't forget to use your severance pay and unemployment checks wisely.

Good hearted, good natured fun but maybe what I'm saying strikes a "Chord"? "C" ya!

Best regards,
Mike

PS: I may be full of hot air but it's better to vent it in a healthy way than to stay steamed up inside. Not that I'm mad, I'm just making a point. Besides the weather here is hot and muggy anyway so forgive me if I let off some of 'my' own steam to alleviate at least SOME of the "heat". lol

Best regards,
Mike

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#101970 - 07/22/03 11:04 PM Re: Genesys Pro is impressing!
PaulD Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 258
Loc: Eugene, OR
Just because it is the mother of all arrangers, doesn't mean that you will see it at all Guitar Centers, actual locations where you and touch and feel and play the instrument. I have followed this forum for years, as well as others, and can tell you that honestly that what you find in a catalog isn't what you will buy. Most want to play the instrument. Now companies like Yamaha haven't been able to get their high end arranger into every store where people can play, do you honestly think that a company that doesn't have a name here in the USA have a chance to get our instrument into every store.... Let me answer this for you... NO!!!!! We have chosen to sell our instrument to dealers that would actually display, demonstrate, and Support our instrument.

Now this doesn't mean that all Catalog stores don't have staff and talent that a smaller store does, but they are harder to find. Stores like Kayes Music, George Kaye we have found a better fit for our products.

High end arrangers are Niche products, I know this is hard for all those like myself that love them, but it is true. Arranger instruments unless they are a digital piano, are not big sellers in the USA.

I would love to see our arranger instruments in every store and sell millions as I would benefit from this, but I don't think that this is a reality.


Ferrier and Lamberganni are know as sports cars, and you can't find them as easily as a Ford, Chevy or even Toyota, but that doesn't mean that they are less of a sports car. Generalmusic is an instrument brand used serious musicians like
Keith Emerson
(Emerson, Lake & Palmer)

David Copperfield

Roy Bittan
(keyboardist with Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band, David Bowie, Dire Straits, Stevie Nicks, Peter Gabriel, Meatloaf, Lou Reed, Bob Seger and Jackson Browne)

George Duke

David Goldblatt
(keyboardist with Mark Isham, John Patitucci, Frank Gambale, Vinnie Colaiuta, Gino Vannelli)

Laura Karpman
(Spielberg)

T Lavitz
(keyboardist with Dixie Dregs)

Tommy Mars
(Keyboardist with Frank Zappa)



Ian McLagan
(founding member of Small Faces - with Rod Stewart and Ronnie Wood. Other credits include The Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan, Melissa Etheridge, Taj Mahal, Lucinda Williams, Bonnie Rait, Buddy Guy and The Everly Brothers).

Jason Miles
(Sting, Chaka Khan, Wayne Shorter, and more)

Renato Neto
(keyboardist with Sheila E, Marco Mendoza, Steve Wonder, Gilberto Gil, Roberto Carlos and Oleta Adams)

Otmaro Ruiz
(composer, arranger, pianist with Gino Vannelli, Robbie Robertson, Jon Anderson, David Weckl, Franc Gambale, Charlie Haden, Arturo Sandoval)

Rick Serrate

Darrell Smith
(keyboardist, producer with Herbie Hancock, Maxwell, Brian McKnight, Impromp2, Gerald Albright and Doc Powell)

Mark Ellis Stephens
(Keyboardist with Chaka Kahn, Diana Ross)

Loft Studio's

John Tesh

J.T. Thomas
(keyboardist with Bruce Hornsby, Tracy Chapman, Rita Coolidge, Sparks and Captain Beefheart)

Gino Vannelli
(Cher, U2)

Joe Vannelli
(producer, composer, arranger. Lifelong collaborator with brother Gino Vannelli).

Rick Wakeman
(YES)

Larry Williams
(keyboardist with Lee Ritenour, Dave Grusin, Michael Jackson, Eric Clapton, Big Mountain, Go West, Manhattan Transfer, Al Jarreau and Sheila E.)

These are huge names in the industry. Does the fact that they didn't find them at the huge catalog mean they wouldn't buy them... NO.... as those looking for a arranger insturment. Huge catalog store are looking for mass market, those that are looking for a high end arranger instrument are not "Mass Market". Seek out and play these instruments and then chose. No matter what brand it is, the high end arrangers are hard to find to play and listen.



------------------
Paul Davis
Generalmusic
Generalmusic.US
_________________________
Paul Davis
Generalmusic
Generalmusic.US

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#101971 - 07/23/03 07:38 AM Re: Genesys Pro is impressing!
DonM Online   elvis
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 15896
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I HAVE sought them out. I tried several times to arrange to see one. No success whatsoever. George Kaye is thousands of miles from me.
Same is true for Ketron.
Yamaha Tyros is just down the street. I know I can live with a Tyros. Don't know about the others, and there seems to be no way to find out short of ordering one sight unseen, which will not happen.
DonM
_________________________
DonM

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#101972 - 07/23/03 08:19 AM Re: Genesys Pro is impressing!
Idatrod Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/02
Posts: 562
Loc: Oceanside, CA USA
Sorry if I upset you Paul. I didn't mean too. I was just trying to get your attention I guess. I'm sure the Genesys Pro is an awesome sounding Keyboard. I've listened to all the Demos on your site and they sound very good. But sometimes a demo does not reflect the actuality of an instrument's true sound. In the case of the Genesys Pro I would not be able to determine that because I wouldn't be able to play it in person because.... well, you know.

Yamaha is at least making an effort to get their High End Arrangers into the Major retail outlets and also has them on the Major online stores. If the Genesys Pro were at least in some of the Major Online Music Stores, I could possibly order one and try it out and if I didn't like it I could return it for a refund. But that is a hassle for a potential customer to do and deal with. Plus I'm sure it could be a major pain for GEM because of the possible multiple returns of your product. Though I'm not saying there would be.

I for one would love to try out the Genesys Pro at my local retailer. But there are none in my area. Again, I know it's not your fault and I understand that you are trying to cover for your employer which is only natural. Plus the Boss could be looking in too, right? But I hope he does see these posts and that GEM will have a change of heart and start by trying to get a foothold into the Major retail establishments. Imho, I think it would be good for GEM; in the way of increased sales and product recognition and "presence", and I know it would be good for your potential customers by the fact that they could actually demo the product to have a first hand encounter with it and the fact that buying it locally there is security in knowing that the place I bought it from is either a local phone call away or a short drive away to ask questions and get product support and demo it again if I wasn't quite convinced on the first encounter.

Best regards,
Mike

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#101973 - 07/23/03 10:08 AM Re: Genesys Pro is impressing!
PaulD Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 258
Loc: Eugene, OR
Mike,

You did not offend me, nor upset me with your comments. I wanted you to see that it is really a catch twenty-two. Just because the large catalog store shows your product in there catalog doesn't mean they have them and display, demonstrate them. In some market areas we have better coverage than other keyboard manufactures.

So here is the dilemma and I will give an example from when I worked retail.

I worked and managed a large locally owned music store with multiple locations. We sold a ton of keyboards. We never stocked any of the high-end arrangers that were in catalogs. The main reason, was because we needed to make X amount of money from a sale to make it worthwhile to demonstrate and support and train the customer to use the instrument. When a catalog company sells an instrument, they normally do none of these things. They just sell you a box, in which they can sell you the product for far less than a store that give you the full meal deal. With slab style products (non-arranger, mostly 88 note pianos and synths) a store like the one I worked for could compete, because those instruments are sold with very little support, and we could easily compete on price. You could sell 5-10 slab keyboards in the time it would take you to sell 1 arranger style instrument. So simply put, if there is good profit to selling the instrument, more and more people will want to sell them and show them. This doesn't happen overnight, but is happening, distribution is a lot better than it was just a year ago, and is getting better.

Those truly interested in purchasing a new instrument and would like have a demonstration and play a genesys PRO or any other instruments Generalmusic builds, send me an email. I will either locate a dealer near by, or arrange something to get you the opportunity to play the instrument.

Sincerely,




------------------
Paul Davis
Generalmusic
Generalmusic.US
_________________________
Paul Davis
Generalmusic
Generalmusic.US

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#101974 - 07/23/03 10:57 PM Re: Genesys Pro is impressing!
George Kaye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/24/99
Posts: 3295
Loc: Reseda, California USA
Paul,
According to most of the major arranger companys here in the USA, I'm a part of a very small group of music stores in this country that choose to sell many high end arranger keyboards. I've been told for years, that most stores have little or no interest in stocking high end pro style arranger keybaords. There are so many reasons why so many choose not to carry these products. First and most importantly I think it has nothing to do with the small Italian companys vs the big Japanese companys, but rather music store owners or sales people who have little or know interest and knowledge in putting so much effort to learn, demonstrate and sell these types of keyboards. It has been told to me over and over again, that when Guitar Center or Sam Ash stock a Tyros or PA80 on their floors, very few are actually being sold because someone has come into the store and a sales person has sold a keyboard. I've been told by customers of these forums that when they do walk into a chain store which do carry these products, they usually are met with someone with basically no knowledge of how these keyboards work and therfore give the shopper either no information, wrong information or an attempt to move the customer to a different type of product, one which the saleperson knows something about. The decesion to sell products in a particular store is not made at the individual store level but rather at the corportate leve. Some models are ordered and some are not, without the store manager even knowing what will be sold or not. When choosing to carry the Korg PA80 or the Yamaha Tyros, again, this is often part of a "master" order and thus you see these keybaords at some of the locations but not at all. Sometimes I beleive that because the buyer meets with the representative of a large company, purchasing decesions are made more because of the name rather than if the product mix is correct for their type of store or location. I congradulate Ketron and Generalmusic for putting their keyboards mostly in stores that care to learn and show their products along side of Yamaha, Korg and Roland products. I find the mind set that all arranger keyboards are more like low end entry level "box" store keyboards not worth spending time showing, the more common feeling in chain stores. For this reason, I think this might be why you will see some Yamaha and Korg products in some chain stores. With so many different types of keyboads, having a few Tyros or maybe a Korg PA80 is easy enough to have around. Sure, it's easy to say "everyone knows Yamaha because of it's high visibility" but I love the opportunity to display in my store what the other keybord brands can offer. It has nothing to do with selling a Generalmusic or Ketron at higher prices because of less competition because I price my products all the same and don't charge a higher profit percentage for any keyboard I sell. I enjoy showing the different features each keyboard has to offer. Of course,feeling a bit selfish, I like that I'm one of just a few dealers that people have to drive to in order to see all the models and get what I think is a very good demo, but I also appreciate that Generalmusic and Ketron support me by giving me a large area to sell their keyboads and by taking care of any problems I might have with a repair in a very timely manner. Most times, I get the sale, both in person and via the internet, but sometimes if a customer is only looking for the lowest price, the sale goes to the internet store. I do want to say though that the amount of time and effort that goes into dealing with a good dealer does offer benefits in both support, technically and if problems arrive. I'm trying not to sound like I'm comlaining here, because it is very rewarding when the customer comes back after making the decesion to buy from me, or a phone call comes in from Florida or New York and I get the opportunity to help that customer who put their confidence in a small store like mine. Dan O., myself and a handful of others put in a lot of effort to make our businesses work and survive. I thank the comapanys that support my store and my customers and hope that they continue to support those dealers that support them. I hope that in the future, more small dealers will realize from customers and forums like this that there is a market for these keybaords and that you will be able to vist local store and lay your hands and hear with your ears how good all these new keyboards are.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
_________________________
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

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#101975 - 07/24/03 01:14 AM Re: Genesys Pro is impressing!
MacAllcock Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/02
Posts: 1157
Loc: Preston, Lancashire, England
PaulD

With regard to the "our keyboards are used by these following people so they must be good"... The high profile users are such that it is worth your while delivering a demo model to their door - endorsement may well confirm the quality of the product (and I have no doubts about that - I've played your high-end stuff at trade shows) but has no bearing on the general availability situation for normal users who have to footslog around stores, which is the point being made here.

I only wish I had a "George Kaye" somewhere near me!
_________________________
John Allcock

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