Ok, you've all heard me sing the praises of Tyros, probably too much, right? Well, here's one beef I have with the Tyros, which I don't experience with the PSR2000.

On the PSR2000, if I assign 'fill to self' to a foot pedal, and then depress & hold down the foot pedal, the fill 'repeats continously' until I release the pedal. On the other hand, on the Tyros, the fill plays only once, regardless of whether I release the pedal or not.

It's almost impossible (for me) to continuously re-trigger the foot pedal repeatedly (and at just the right moment) to achieve the effect of a continously repeating fill that holding down the PSR2000 foot pedal, or the fill button itself (on top of both the 2000 & Tyros) achieves.

I much prefer being able to keep the foot pedal depressed to get the fill automatically 'repeat continously'.

The advantage of a continously repeating fill is for a song's transitionary section where you might want to build up the audience energy, before moving into the next section. An example where I like to do this is on the classic Van Morrison tune "Brown Eyed Girl". If you know that tune, I think you know 'where' in that song I'm talking about: "Do you remember when we used to sing"

I'm now curious to find out if the new PSR2100 retains the 'continously repeating' fill when activated via foot pedal or not. Perhaps Joe Waters, Shakeel, or Beakybird could check and report back on this.

In the meantime, I'd like to request that Yamaha implement this on the Tyros via OS update. I hope Steve Deming is reading this and will forward my request to the Yamaha folks in charge of OS update developement.

Thanks in advance,

Scott

It might make a difference if anyone else was using this feature. If anyone besides Scott ever did this, and is a Tyros owner or potential owner, let me know.

Thanks,


------------------
Steve Deming
Assistant Manager
Customer Support Dept.
Pro Audio & Combo Division
Yamaha Corporation of America

Scott,

Are you triggering the fills with the MFC 10?

Irregardless, I would absolutely agree with Scott; holding down the trigger pedal should allow the break to continuously execute. I vote yes!

Al

For Steve D.
Dpto. Customer Service Yamaha

I understand that the "style" designers for the Tyros are from Germany, just an observation, in the World 1 section there is a style "Mexican Dance", this is NOT either Mexican, Spanish or latinoamerican.......and it could be more usefull to put a REAL style like, Guajira, Bachata, Cumbias(there are several types, Colombian, Mexican, etc.), Vallenato, Vals Peruano, Zapateado, Bolero Ranchero, Son, etc......I will encourage more Research, rather than inventing something not accurate in orchestration, and even more important, the Caracter of the etnicity to portrait.
Thank you.

------------------
mdorantes

Hello Steve Demming ,

Can you please email me at

keyboardcity@yahoo.com ? Sincerely, DanO1

------------------
Keyboard City
1826 E.Joppa Rd.
Towson Md. 21234
410 665-MIDI (6434)
keyboardcity@yahoo.com
www.keyboardcity.net

Hi,

I tried to hold SelfFill with my MFC10 and, unfortunatly, it works great!

So, i dont need an os upgrade to do that...

Actually, i have the OS version 1.20

Scotty, did you tried with a MFC10 or just a normal foot pedal?


Serge

One more reason I can add to my list as to why I didn't get and "won't get" a Tyros. At least not until Tyros II or maybe Tyros III when they add internal Speakers, and you can actually play those darn Mega Voices they put in there. I use the Fill to Self with a Foot Pedal "Repeateded Continuous Fills" and it is a GREAT feature on the PSR 2000. It can really add sparkle to a piece and can really jazz things up in the percussive department. I have no idea why the Tyros developers left this cool feature out. What were they thinking? Sure you may be able to do it with an MFC10 but you will have to spend upwards of $300.oo for the MFC10 to get it to work. How much did I pay to get that feature on my PSR 2000? How about Zilch! Thank you Yamaha for adding that feature to the PSR 2000. Should you do no less than give your Flagship Arranger's customers that same feature as one that your Mid Range Keyboard has? I agree with Steve Deming. All of you Tyros owners out there chip in and let it be known to Yamaha Music Division that, YES, this is a feature that I want!!! Not only through this Forum but I encourage all Tyros owners to E-MAIL Yamaha directly to let them know how you feel.

You can reach a Customer Support Representative by email or phone:


Email: ycasupport@yamaha.com
Phone: (714) 522-9000, CA. USA Please call Monday – Friday, between 8:30am – 5:00pm PST/PDT

Best regards,
Mike

Scott, not sure what you're doing, but if I hold my fill to self button down on the MFC10 it continues to fill to self until I let off it, so mine works the way you want it to work.
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

mdorantes,

Germany doesn't own the style input on Yamaha portable keyboards. Every market has some input depending on the unit sales in that market. It just so happens that Germany sell a lot of high end units, so they have some influence. Ultimately the product development staff must choose which
voices and styles will make the list. I agree that more research is necessary. Bottome line is; there will never be 1 unit that is perfect for all markets. I will pass along your comments.

Regards,



------------------
Steve Deming
Assistant Manager
Customer Support Dept.
Pro Audio & Combo Division
Yamaha Corporation of America

No. I acknowledge that it's possible to trigger continously repeating fills via the MFC10 'midi' foot controller.

My gripe though is that it's not possible to trigger 'continously repeating fills' via a 'single pedal' foot controller, connected to one of the three assignable 1/4" foot pedal jacks on the back of the Tyros. On the PSR2000, it's possible to trigger a "continously repeating" fill as long as ou keep the foot controler pedal depressed, and have grown to rely on this feature in live stage performance (as I had outlined earlier in this thread) so sorely miss it now on the Tyros.

Steve, I'm confident that this can be corrected via a Tyros OS Update, so hope with your assistance, that you can forrward this to the Yamaha Tyros R&D dept in hopes they will address this issue in the next Tyros OS update.

Thanks for your consideration.

Scott

I utilize this feature on my PSR2100.

Beakybird

Hi Larry (beakybird):

Thanks for confirming that the new PSR2100, as well as the PSR2000, also INCLUDES the "repeating" 'fill to self' feature when activated via a single type foot pedal. This further convinces me now that the omission of this on the Tyros was most definitely an oversight on Yamaha's part.

I only hope this fact will get Steve Deming (Yamaha USA) to use his influence to convince the Yamaha Tyros software developers to correct this via Tyros OS Update, as this essential feature I'm sure is widely used by MANY MANY pro arranger players out there, and not just Beakybird (Larry Levin) & myself.

Scott

Ok, it's been over a month now since I initially reported that it's not possible to achieve a continously repeating 'fill' from a single footswitch connected to one of the (3) assignmable Tyros foot pedal jacks. On the Yamaha PSR2000, fills play repeatedly as long as you keep the foot pedal held down, but on the Tyros, the fill plays once only. This is a big disappointment as triggering 'repeating' fills via footpedal is an important element to creating a life like realistic sounding arranger emulation of what a drummer actually does to invigorate excitement (build suspense) during a song.

I'm throughly convinced that the Tyros' absence of this feature was a mere oversight on Yamaha's part, as the PSR2000 (and I suspect PSR2100, 9000pro, and PSR9000 as well) all 'do' support this. In light of this, I'd really appreciate it if 9000pro, and PSR2100 owners would take time to confirm if you're able to trigger a continously 'repeating' fill via a simple foot pedal assigned to: 'Fill Self'.

I realize you can trigger a continously repeating fill to play via a MFC10 midi foot controler unit, but one shouldn't have to drag around such a bulky & heavy piece of equipment when it should be also possible to trigger this via a simple foot pedal as the PSR2000 already does.



Steve: Though I respect your point that the more people reporting here that they use this feature might make a difference whether the issue gets addressed or not, it seems clear that this is a legitimate issue I raised because it DOES work this way on the PSR2000. This issue is reminesent of Don Mason's beef about the Speedy Mouse problem on the PSR2000, as the PSR9000 didn't have the problem, and now the Tyros doesn't exhibit that problem now either. In the case of the Tyros, unlike the PSR2000, it supports downloadable OS flash ROM, so I am confident that the 'repeating fill' via footpedal issue can be easily addressed in a subsequent OS update, so would appreciate anything you can do to bring this to the attention of the Tyros OS update R&D team.

Thanks in advance for everyone's feedback & input. I hope everyone understands how important this issue is to arranger keyboard performance.

Scott

Hi: Scott
The 9000 Pro will also repeat the "fill to self" as long
as you hold down the foot switch, & I to use this feature allot.
Hopefully Yamaha will correct this in the next OS Update
for the Tyros.
Denny

hi Denny,

Many thanks for confirming what I had originally suspected. As it's now a confirmed fact that both the PSR2000 & 9000pro include the repeating 'fill to self' feature, as long as the foot pedal is depressed, this HIGHLIGHTS the FACT that the Tyros lacking this, surely was an unintential 'oversight' on Yamaha's part.

George Kaye, and PSR2100 owners: Can you possibly test & report back if the PSR2100 also includes: continously repeating "fill to self" as long as you hold down the foot switch?

As you all probably can tell, I'm feeling like I'm on a personal crusade now to get this ESSENTIAL feature implemented on the Tyros, so hoping others of you (Yamaha & non Yammy arranger players alike) will step forward to express your thoughts on this issue. I love the Tyros, but the absence of the ability to trigger a repeating 'fill to self' via footpedal is SORELY missed on the Tyros.

Thanks to everyone (including Steve Deming) for doing whatever is required to get this implemented on the Tyros ASAP via OS Update.

Scott

Scotty, Larry Levin already confirmed that the PSR 2100 does indeed have that same feature.

Best regards,
Mike

Altimers?

Mike. Thanks for pointing out my oversight. Glad to hear that the PSR2100 supports the footpedal repeating 'fill self' feature.

The fact that this important feature is included on all of Yamaha's other recent & currently produced arrangers (PSR2000/2100, 9000pro) points to the fact that this was an obvious 'mistaken ommission' on the Tyros, and that Yamaha needs to implement this, via Tyros OS update.

Steve Deming (Yamaha USA Customer Support), I'm hoping you will respond. Thank you.

Scott

Scott,

It was not a mistake, it was a design decision. I have already passed along your comments, but from past experience, I can tell you that with so little interest from existing and potential Tyros customers, this is not likely to happen, unless it's real easy to slip it in with something that is already in the works.

------------------
Steve Deming
Assistant Manager
Customer Support Dept.
Pro Audio & Combo Division
Yamaha Corporation of America

Scott:
According to what Steve said, You & I must be the only one's that
use this great feature, to be able to hold down the foot switch & have
"fill self " repeat until you let up on the foot switch.
I can't believe others don't use this feature.
I use it allot on my 9000 Pro.
If indeed this is a "design decision" I find it strange that Yamaha would
decide to leave this important feature out of there "Flag Ship" Arranger
& have it back in the newer model PSR2100. GO FIGURE
I know if the Tyros don't have this feature I WON'T be buying the Tyros.
I have been hoping & praying that Yamaha comes out with the Tyros Pro,
BUT if it don't repeat the "fill self " by holding down the foot switch there's
no need, I will keep the 9000 Pro or go to a different brand.

Scott let me know if Yamaha implements this feature in a new OS upgrade
or not. Please.
Thank You
Denny

Steve: No offense, but I suspect you are merely covering up for Yamaha's error here. I'm 'not' convinced this was a conscious Yamaha design 'decision', and still think it was just an unintential oversight on Yamaha's part. As 'dlstarry' clearly pointed out, why on earth would Yamaha intentionally remove it on the Tyros, yet continue to implement it on the newest PSR2100 model? I challenge you to give ONE good reason for Yamaha to have intentially removed this critical element of the foot pedal activated: 'fill self' feature.



I believe the amount (or lack of) interest has more to do with the fact that most people here may not even be familiar with (or aware of) the 'fill self' via footpedal feature, or the beneifits it provides to LIVE performance arranger keyboard playing, so think it's unfair for you to base 'how you deal with this' on interest alone.

I'm quite certain that adding the 'continously repeating fill' feature to 'fill self' can be easily implemented via a Tyros OS software update. As a PSR2000 owner as well, my chief complaint with that keyboard is that it's not flash rom OS upgradeable. I had hoped with my purchase of the Yamaha flagship model Tyros (which does include a flash rom-able OS), that it would allow me to easily upgrade the OS, to include bux fixes & OS enhancements, and to which this 'very issue' involves.

I really hope this isn't the end of the road to this Tyros issue and hope that you will seriously re-evaluate the importance of re-implementing the 'continously repeating fill' feature to the 'fill self' remote footpedal function.

I have stood by Yamaha as a loyal customer for a long time , but how Yamaha resolves this issue will most definitely impact my decision to what brand arranger keyboard I purchase in the future.

Respectfully,

Scott Yee

Scott,
I use my MFC 10 for this feaure and it supports the repeating fill self. So for me, not using seperate pedals it is not a feature I really need in an o/s update.
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

Hi Scott, I've gone and registered on the site so I could support you

There is surely a simple solution to this. Instead of changing the behaviour of Fill Self, why not add Fill Self (Continuous) to the Pedal Function list. There are over 40 different functions in here. Another one wouldn't hurt. Given that this feature already exists on other models, the code should already be available and be fairly easy to port.

Come on Yamaha, show that you care about your customers and sort this out.

Paul.

P.S. While we're on, could we have an mp3 player and web browser in the next OS upgrade Well, it was worth a go!!!

Terry: For those like yourself who already own a MFC10 footcontroller unit, that's fine, but for those who can't afford one ($260 US dollars street price) , or don't want to have to lug around (back and forth to gigs) such a large bulky (W x D x H): 24 x 8 1/4 x 2 1/4 inches, & heavy (over 7 lbs, 11 oz (3.52 kg)) unit, this is not a viable option. In fact I sold my MFC10 recently because of it's cumbersome weight.

Terry, I think you're missing my point here.
A simple inexpensive 'single foot pedal' connected to a Yamaha PSR9000, 9000pro, PSR2000, or PSR2100, DOES already support the continously repeating 'fill to self' feature, so I'd expect it should work on the Tyros the same way. Yamaha is certainly able to correct this with a simple OS update, but Steve Deming (Yamaha USA) insists that he needs to garner more interest from other Tyros owners (or potential owners) before pushing for a bug fix. I hope Yamaha doesn't drop the ball on this one.

Paul (ptumelty),Denny (dlstarry), Larry (Beakybird), Al (kbrkr) & Mike (Idatrod): MANY thanks for your support on this issue. I only wished there were more people here willing to 'stick their neck out' in support of this as well.

Scott

Scott,

Wow! "or don't want to have to lug around (back and forth to gigs) such a large bulky (W x D x H): 24 x 8 1/4 x 2 1/4 inches, & heavy (over 7 lbs, 11 oz (3.52 kg)) unit, this is not a viable option"

I didn't realize this thing weighed that much, you're right, Yamaha needs to upgrade the o/s before you guys that are out giggin' all the time get a hernia.

I do think it should be available though, especially since it is in place on the other Yammys.

Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 07-23-2003).]

I am with Scott on this one also, this is an ESSENTIAL fix that should be implemented in the next or at least near future OS updates for the Yamaha Tyros.

Regards
Dr Simon Williams
SVPworld


------------------
__________________________________________________________
SVPworld.com - Creative Multimedia & Music
incorporating PSRworld and Tyrosworld

forum.svpworld.com - No adverts, No spam, No nonsense!
share your music, get help and advice, make new friends! All platforms invited!!

While I have just started using Fill To Self on my PSR2000 (thanks to learning about it here on the forum), I can't imagine the "New & Improved" models not having this feature.

I had not tried this feature yet, but I have now and can confirm Beaky's report that it does, indeed, work on the PSR-2100. In fact, not only does "Fill Self" work, but so, too, does "Fill Down", "Fill Up", and "Fill Break". Using "Fill Up", for example, pressing on the foot pedal plays the fill as it moves from variation A to B (or B to C or C to D or D to A). Continuing to hold the pedal down moves up to the next variation and continues to play the fill until the pedal is released. This certainly is a neat feature and, after I add a "lesson" on how to utilize these "fills", a lot more people will discover it and be happy they did. Well, not everybody. The Tyros owners will have to await the delivery of the next OS upgrade when this "feature" can be added to the Tyros keyboards.

Why wouldn't I EXPECT every excisting feature in the 2000, 2100, and or 9000 to be in the flagship professional keyboard? I am looking very hard at moving up to a Tyros and was under the impression that there would be updates to correct design mistakes. If this is not going to be the case maybe I need to reconsider my future keyboard. Already, I'm not sure I want to move up as you left the sampler from the 9000 out. I realize not everyone uses every feature on these monster keyboards. I know many synths are returned for repair and not a single voice has been changed. I would ask though are the top of the line keyboards made for the mass's or for the few that play them professionally which gets the mass's insterested. The Professional want's and NEEDS every single feature he can get. I guess it comes down to wether Yamaha can change there mindset and realize that the top of the line arranger keyboards are really going to be used more and more by serious musicicans and they are going to demand more and more professional features.

I join to the voice of Scott and others that agree that this feature should be implemented asap! I also have a personal interest, 'cause I just bought my brand new Tyros

-- José

Steve,

I agree with Scott on this issue. What is the best way to voice my vote? Is replying to you enough or do I have to file a support case with Tech Support?

Regards
Al

Hello Scott,

I'm with you! It would be nice to be able to repeat the fill using the foot pedal. While Yamaha is at it they could correct the key change problem when doing a simple recording. My Tyros resets the key to the original key after each change in the recording playback.

Richard

While I am a 'techie' and not a 'yammie', and can understand the frustration of a feature disappearing from one model or series (and a high-end one at that) while it exists in models below and above it, is it so unusual that the designers of these boards eliminate features from one to another for whatever reason they may have, logical or otherwise? My kn1000 had a feature called 'dynamic accompaniment' which changed the drum pattern depending on the velocity of the notes being played ... i.e. if I were playing a tune and went into a 'double time' solo, the drum pattern would reflect this and become 'livelier' ... I really enjoyed using this feature ... I don't know just when it was eliminated, but kn6 does not have it ... ??? ......

Scott.. I wish you luck with your 'crusade'.
.... and, terry, let's not forgot that, with all due respect to Scott , we are talking about an individual who evaluates the size, weight, and ease of use, of any piece of gear along with its appearance, sound, and functionality ... a couple of pounds or ounces less on each piece of gear makes transportation and set up a lot easier, especially when you are doing it a number of times each day.....
t.

Tony,
I get yours and Scott's point about humping allot of gear. I just view it differently it is to me for all the years I gigged, I figured whatever I needed to bring was part of the job......try humping and setting up a set of Musser Pro Vibes sometime. Plus the amp, speakers mixer, help the other band members hump their stuff in and set up on and on. It just came with the territory as far as I am concerned and what I chose to do.

In short I did and brought whatever it was that was necessary to put on the very best performance I could for the audience and never did mind really having to hump all the stuff, to me it was just a priviledge to play and be paid and enjoyed by people that only a small percentage of all the musicians out there get the opportunity to do.
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

terry ... I agree with what you are saying, especially the part about being paid to perform (I always said I never got paid to perform, but for what it took to get there, i.e. the practice, the lugging of gear, set-up, breakdown, etc.) and I lugged a Fender Rhodes AND a cordovox with the BIG amp, along with all the other gear for a 5 piece group for years!!! .... and I STILL carry far too much for one guy ... but there are some who need to find the lightest, fastest, gear they can .....
t.

Quote: “In short I did and brought whatever it was that was necessary to put on the very best performance I could for the audience and never did mind really having to hump all the stuff, to me it was just a privilege to play and be paid and enjoyed by people that only a small percentage of all the musicians out there get the opportunity to do. Terry"

Now that is the kind of attitude that I can really admire. That kind of thinking I can relate to. After forty years with my seven piece dance band and the last ten years as a solo keyboard act, I can agree wholeheartedly. All those years doing my best to please the people we worked for no matter what we had to do, carry, set up and tear down has brought me great satisfaction, not to mention those who we played for. Never cut corners for our own benefit whether weight or amount of gear needed. Great satisfaction and pleasure of accomplishment when looking back. Even today at 77, pleasing people and not self brings me great joy after each job. Retire? Ya, maybe after I croak! Terry that attitude will always carry you through the hard times and will always set you a notch above the average pro in what ever endeavor you choose. Just a few thoughts from an old guy nearing the end of things.

Grandpa Doug

Terry, I appreciate what you're saying here, but I'm sure that you also understand when running a business, that 'time is money' so any amount of extra equipment you have to haul back & forth (and setup) for a gig impacts on both 'time spent AND money' made.

In regards to the topic at hand: the Tyros, the 'auto repeat fill' feature SHOULD have been INCLUDED in the first place (as the 9000pro, PSR2000 & PSR2100 all do) which would then not neccesitate the need to purchase (pricey) or haul around (the heavy & bulky) MFC10 foot controller just to gain that single feature.

Scott

hi Al: I encourage you, (and all other Tyros & potential Tyros owners who have posted here as well), to also email Yamaha DIRECTLY with your concerns about this issue. As Steve Deming stated himself, the more people he hears from about this issue, the more likely it will be fixed.

You can email Steve Deming (Asst Manager, Yamaha USA customer support) at: ycasupport@yamaha.com

Thanks for your interest.

- Scott

Scott,
I already said I think it should be fixed....
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

Dear Steve Deming (Yamaha USA),

In response to your above statement: As you can read (above), a number of other Tyros (and potential) Tyros owners (other than myself) have now stepped forward to concur with my request that Yamaha release a Tyros OS update to implement the 'continously repeating fill portion of the' 'fill self' feature while the foot pedal is pressed.

In addition, I realize that a number of Tyros owners have now also emailed you directly at (ycasupport@yamaha.com) to formally request this feature be added as well. I hope this sufficiently convinces you that this issue warrants taking a more agressive stance (on your part) in seeing that this crucial portion of the 'fill self' feature gets implemented on the Tyros via Tyros OS update, especially since it's already implemented on all other current Yamaha arrangers. I'm hoping you'll respond in kind here with both your personal and Yamaha's official position on this now. Thank you for any follow up info you might offer.

Scott


------------------
http://scottyee.com

Still waiting for the "Repeat to Self Fill" feature to be implemented in the Tyros Steve. Btw Steve Deming; you said Yamaha Japan didn't implement it into the Tyros because it was a "design decision". What made them decide that? What was their reasoning behind their decision? FYI (I'm sure you are aware of this Steve) Yamaha didn't implement it because the Tyros has an option for the MFC10 foot controller integration in the Function Menu on the Tyros as we all know. Yamaha wants to sell the MFC10 to each and every Tyros owner if it could hence the 'reason' behind their decision IMO. I agree with you Steve that Yamaha will NOT implement it in the Tyros through an OS update because it would be a bad business decision on their part because they want to sell the Tyros' owners a $300 piece of equipment over the "simple" pains it would take to provide an OS fix allowing a 'common' foot controller to be used to activate the "Repeat to Self Fill" feature. And as we all know Yamaha or any other Keyboard Manufacturer for that matter thinks of their 'bottom line' first and the customer sits way down on the totem pole as to what is important to them - (apparently).

Btw Steve, we haven't heard much from you lately. I hope all is going well for you and your family. I would hate to think you got the axe from Yamaha but seeing they are still trying to recuperate from a financial downturn from a few years ago stranger things have happened. I hope that is not the case. Especially being let go during the Holiday season. That would really hurt.

PS: My interest in the "Repeat to Self Fill" function using a common foot controller is even greater because I now own a Tyros. Who knows maybe someone at Yamaha Japan's Music Division has a big heart and WILL provide an OS fix allowing the Repeat to Self Fill feature on the Tyros. Sometimes kindness and generosity takes precedence over the 'bottom line'. I know it's rare Steve, but it does and has happened before. Btw, merry Christmas and a Happy New Year Steve. That is IF you're still at the helm of Yamaha's Product Customer Support in Buena Park, CA. and are STILL reading posts from this Forum. If you got axed from Yamaha and could care less about what goes on here at SZ anymore then of course all these words are falling on deaf ears. I KNOW they're falling on deaf ears at Yamaha Japan. At least for now.

Best regards,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 12-10-2003).]

Mike, thanks for 're-surfacing' what I consider an IMPORTANT Tyros issue. Wow, it's been 6 months now since I initally raised this topic issue here, as well as personally with Steve Deming (Yamaha USA), and have yet to hear word of a Tyros OS Update to address this problem.

Regretably I'm becoming increasingly resigned to the fact that Yamaha (out of corporate arrogance?) feels that they can simply 'skirt the issue' by saying it was a conscious 'design change' decision on Yamaha's part (we know better), resulting in lowering their operating costs & further maximizing Yamaha's profits.

I'm 99.99% convinced that the foot pedal activated auto loop 'fill to self' problem is simply due to one line of OS programming code that got overlooked (or entered wrong) by a Yamaha programmer, and would take only a few minutes of Yamaha's time to correct. The Tyros already supports flash ROM OS updating, so 'what's the problem'?

I'm probably the loudest voice here in expressing how much I LOVE the Tyros, but Yamaha's continueing deaf ear to admiting & correcting the Tyros missing foot pedal activated auto loop 'fill self' feature, is troubling at best. I really don't think I'm expecting to much. I just expect a top of the line arranger like the Tyros to include what is 'already included' in the REST of its arranger keyboard lineup.

Scott

Hey guys,

Thanks for your well wishes Mike, and congrats on the Tyros. I'm still here, and I haven't forgotten about this issue. I try to get on Synthzone as well as several other sites every day, but it's been pretty busy around here lately. I'm still hopeful about this feature addition, but I can't promise anything.

Remeber the Reason for the season. I hope you all have a great Christmas and a abundant blessings in the New Year!


------------------
Steve Deming
Assistant Manager
Customer Support Dept.
Pro Audio & Combo Division
Yamaha Corporation of America
YCASupport@yamaha.com
714.522.9000

Hi Steve, I'm really grateful to hear that you haven't forgotten about this issue, and hope you'll continue to remind Yamaha Japan how IMPORTANT this feature is to so many Tyros owners (such as myself), especially those of us who have become accustomed to having this on all other Yamaha arrangers: PSR2000, PSR2100, 9000pro, PSR9000, etc.

Wishing you and your family a happy holiday and the best in 2004. - Scott

I hate to say it, but the ONLY, ONLY, reason that I have not upgraded to the Tyros is because of the continuous fill problems. I do live performances using custom beats only, and I simply will not be able to perform them with the Tyros.

As soon as Yamaha fixes the problem, I will be getting an upgrade.

I hope that motivates you!!!

Chony

Chony...I would love to hear some of your songs....do you have a website?

Chony, I'm glad to hear that you, as another 'live' performance arranger keyboard musician, echo my sentiments.

I'm still NOT convinced that Yamaha's SUDDEN elimination of the 'repeating' fill to self (via footpedal) feature on the Tyros alone, was an 'intentional' design change decision on Yamaha's part, as Steve Deming (Yamaha USA) contends. If so, then it signifies a BIG 'step back' for Yamaha's arranger keyboards, as this feature is a crucial element to presenting a truly 'exciting' LIVE performance.

I challenged Steve Deming (Yamaha USA) to give me a single legitimate reason why Yamaha needed to eliminate this on the Tyros alone, and he still has'n't been able to give me even 'one'. I've come to the conclusion that Yamaha refuses to acknowledge problems in order to avoid their responsibility to correct them. The ridiculous thing about this particular issue is that it could have been 'quickly & easily' resolved in far less time than it took for me to go over the problem here on Synthzone in the first place, with just a simple OS update, ammending or adding perhaps just a single line (or two) of software code.

I remain very disappointed with Yamaha's obvious disinterest in even acknowledging this as an issue. Afterall, it's been over NINE (9) months since I first brought up the problem both here and to Steve Deming (Yamaha USA) directly. I'm sure there are many here who may care less about triggering a 'repeating' fill via footpedal, but you have to at least acknoweledge that this remains a powerfully useful feature, giving us live arranger keyboard performers the ability to take our act to a higher level.

Steve Deming (Yamaha USA), as I haven't heard any news from you on this, other than your promise (back in July 2003) to forward my concern to Yamaha Japan, I'm hoping you'll take the time to provide us with an update on the situation. Thank you,

Scott

------------------
http://scottyee.com

FYI

Scottyee,

Just for fun, I tried the pedal fill-in on the Genesys Pro and it works the way most of the posts are talking about. As long as the pedal is held down, (any type of sustain pedal) the fill continues to repeat.

Another neat feature is if you also use a pedal for start/stop, the drums are brought back in without the accompaniment tracks until a note/chord is played on the left side of the keyboard. This makes for a nice way to have a break and bring things back in gradually.
-------------
tony mads USA,

The Genesys Pro has the Dynamic Arranger function that you liked so much on your KN1000. This function has actually been on the GEM WK series for years. I am glad it is still included on the Genesys as it is a feature that I use quite a bit.

Dave McMahan
Nat'l Product Support Mgr.
Generalmusic USA

Dave, thanks for confirming that the Genesys Pros works this way. I even recall that my Technics KN5000 arranger keyboard worked this way as well. This only substantiates the FACT that this has been a long accepted & expected arranger keyboard feature, and that to find it suddenly missing on the Yamaha 'Tyros model' alone, very troubling . Why can't Yamaha just fess up' & acknowledge the problem and correct it thru a simple OS update patch?!

Scott

Dave,

I understand Genesys Pro is a nice keyboard. However, do you know of any plans to make a "Pro Pro" version with 76 keys? Looking at the picture of the 61-key "Pro" it appears that you guys could have easily fit in another octave without changing the chassis (and affecting the weight too much). The lack of 76 keys is pretty much a show-stopper for me, especially for a "Pro" instrument.

Also, do you know if there are any dealers in Phoenix, AZ area, where I can take a look at this instrument?

Thanks,
Alex

Hi Alex,

I would love to see a 76 note version myself. I don't know of any plans at this point, but you never know. I will say that the feel of the 61 note keyboard is very good. The keys are full size in length and width and they are leaded to add mass which allows for a much better dynamic response.

I will check into the dealer situation in Phoenix and let you know.

Best Regards,

Dave

Sadly Scott I believe Steve Deming when he said it was a "design" decision on the part of Yamaha Japan to leave this feature off the Tyros. I'm not sad that Steve told the truth of course but I am sad that Yamaha chose to leave off the Repeat Fill to Self feature using a common foot pedal. Now here is my reasoning for backing up Steve's reply to us.

Okay, the Tyros has a unique setup window in the Function Menu for the MFC10 Foot Controller, right? The Tyros has the ability to fully integrate an MFC10 Foot Controller to use with the Tyros. Everybody staying with me so far? Okay, the MFC10 Foot Controller allows the Repeat Fill to Self feature. If you own an MFC10 Foot Controller and hook it up to the Tyros you are able to activate the Repeat Fill to Self by holding down the MFC10 pedal as much as your heart contents just like you can with a common foot pedal (inexpensive ones like the FC4, FC5, etc.) on the PSR 1000/1100/2000/2100/9000/9000PRO, etc.

The reason (and I think I'm correct) is that since Yamaha coded in the MFC10 Foot Controller integration into the Tyros' OS - "there is a whole separate tab for setting up the MFC10 Controller" - which took some time and effort for Yamaha's Software engineers to do, that naturally Yamaha wants the owners of the Tyros to purchase an MFC10 Foot Controller. Hence the reason 'why' they left this feature off using a common foot pedal like Yamaha's own FC4 or FC5 foot pedals. The repeat fill to self will only work with an MFC10 Foot Controller. So how much does the MFC10 Controller cost you may ask? How about $279 on a good day when some retailer is having a sale. It is quite expensive as far as Foot Controllers go.



So you see, since Yamaha put in the time, effort and "cost" coding in the Tyros' OS implementation of using their own MFC10 Foot Controller, it is the "logical" and 'only' reasoning IMO behind their decision to 'eliminate' the repeat fill to self feature using any common "inexpensive" foot controller; as Yamaha IMO wants every owner of the Tyros who desires the repeat fill to self feature to buy an MFC10 Controller. Plain and simple.

So yes, Yamaha intentionally did it and it is a marketing ploy instigated by Yamaha to sell "Parts", ie., more of 'their' Hardware to customers and in this case Tyros owners. The MFC10 costs substantially more than Yamaha's FC4 foot pedal - [$30 or so]. And selling as many MFC10 Controllers to as many people as they can, can only increase their profit margins to a greater degree. It's "ALL" about money IMO. Plain and simple.

Best regards,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 03-10-2004).]

Sorry Mike, but I don't buy that reasoning whatsoever as the Tyros keyboard's predecessor's: the PSR9000 and 9000pro, both also include the same dedicated MFC10 setup & configuration window, yet they both allow you to trigger a 'repeating' fill via a simple single foot pedal switch as well.



Well Mike, I actually 'did' purchase the MFC10 foot control unit when I owned my PSR2000 keyboard, but quickly got tired of having to drag around such a cumbersomely heavy (7 lbs- 11 oz) and large (24 x 8 1/4 x 2 1/4 in) brick!. There's absolutely no reason why one should have to buy one, especially if you only need it for the repeat fill feature alone. In addition to being clunky & heavy, navigating its many foot switches can be quite disconcerting.

In conclusion, I'm 'still' not convinced Yamaha 'intentionally' removed the foot pedal activated 'repeating' fill to self feature on the Tyros alone, that's unless their intention was just to get 'my' goat. I'm more convinced than ever now that the omission was due merely to a software programers oversight, and which could & should be easily corrected via OS update. Sorry for sounding so blunt, but for Yamaha to simply ignore a 'legitimate' complaint is unexuseable.

Scott

Scott,

I didn't realize that both the PSR 9000 and 9000PRO had a MFC10 setup and configuration window on them so your point is well taken and may indeed be just the result of a Programmer's oversight. So does that mean that Steve Deming really did fib to us?? Sometimes an employee has to tell a white lie because his higher up's insist on it or he could end up getting canned if he doesn't adhere to their strict orders.

So Steve I understand if that was the case, but you know, with your skills you could have still gotten a job with one of Yammies competitors.

Ouch!! Sorry if that 'sword' pierced a little too deep (like God's Word does) but I know you did it against your will if indeed you did have to fib to us.

Best regards,
Mike

As the Assistant Manager of 'Customer Support' for Yamaha USA Keyboard I only EXPECT Steve Deming to live up to his job title commitment of providing 'customer support', and that means not only listening to, but going to bat (if required) for his US customers as well. If he sees something which is truly wrong or missing on a Yamaha keyboard (as of which the missing foot pedal activated 'repeating self fill' on the Tyros, surely is, and of which most all all of you must surely concur), I believe it's his responsibility to do 'whatever possible' to see that the problem gets addressed & corrected. Steve Deming's initial response to deny any problem at all , and now to simply ignore my request for an update or resolution altogether, is particularly troubling to me, especially since it will soon be a whole year since I initially brought up this legitimate Tyros specific problem. - Scott

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 03-18-2004).]

Scott
I have to say that I am somewhat troubled as well by what appears to me to be a growing sort of myopia at Yamaha. I believe the same is true for the MoES as well the prevailing attitude seems to be ...."what problem, there's no problem."

Big mistake Yamdudes & dudettes.
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html