chas, once again, you are right, we probably are never going to see eye to eye on much of anything politically. What we should be able to agree on is being able to accept that the other may have some acceptable points. One of my biggest gripes are people who cite facts that are not based in truths. A fact is a statement that a majority of learned persons accepts as truth. It does not have to be a truth but just reprieved as such. We can spin all sort of statements out of context (on both sides) and come up with new facts that fit our argument. Just because the Times or the Post makes a statement doesn't necessarily make that a valid truth. We always need to examine the basic premise. There is a point of view that perception is the truth. Sorry, but just not the case. But in the mean time it should make you fell somewhat better toward me to know that while I agree with most of the original post I do not agree with all that my President does or does not do.