Dave, I'm probably the farthest thing you can get from being a 'bible-thumper', but there are a few passages that I really love; ie 'There is none so blind as he that WILL not see'. When you label someone, especially someone from another culture, as 'bitter' or 'angry', it conjures up a very negative image of that person and causes others in the majority culture to view them with suspicion and even (unwarranted) anger. That has never been more true than in the divided environment we are currently experiencing in this country. One of the reasons I like Fran is that although I may tease or kid him (as do a lot of us) about his undying admiration for and loyalty to, all things Roland , he recognizes it for what it is (locker room 'smack' talking) and I don't ever recall him getting angry or calling me (or anyone alse) 'bitter' or 'angry'. Same with Zuki, Steve, Tony, Russ, Eddie, and a few others. I think they recognize that it's just part of my personality, probably cultivated from 10yrs of military and 50 yrs of uphill struggle.

Look, Jews make fun of Jews, Italians make fun of Italians, Blacks make fun of Blacks; everyone makes fun of their own culture....SO WHY CAN'T 'OLD CODGERS' make fun of 'OLD CODGERS'? And let's face it, that's what most of us are here on SZ. Now that we've hashed this out, can we go back to why the BK9 AND the G70 BOTH SUCK and that the only ones that like them are ol' codgers whose hearing is so shot that they have absolutely no idea what these museum relics REALLY sound like .

chas - the Granny Smith of Apples