Squeak, I meant that they were not musicians in the traditional sense ie they cannot play a traditional instrument and this was one of the rationals behind the MPC. I agree that these days there are more instruuments that have different/more modern interfaces and that anyone who can work the interface can be called a musician regardless if it is an SP404 or a Steinway. PS have done some programming on the PA1X and you can get some great synth sounds - very urban. Have not tried to edit the drums yet but think that will be MC909 territory.