Being a songwriter, this is a very scary thought! Meaning, that quite often, I seek feedback on songs I write. Yet, what is feedback worth? As for this forum, I will say it is a cut above; I do value feedback from some poster on here. As for other forums...

In conversations we have had over the years, a friend has expressed disbelief on many occasions about the validity of an American Idol contestant. I would say "What did you think about Sam?" She would say "No way is that real, that guy is a plant." Believing that there is no way anyone could be that bad, yet think that he is okay. Much less, a fit for American Idol. Granted, Sam might be a plant. But I am convinced, some of those atrocities think that they are good!

Point 2. I hobnob on a songwriting forum. Probably the most active on the internet. And I tell ya... some of these folks would give some of these American Idol contestants a run for their money. Meaning... they are SO bad, you shake your head in disbelief that anyone could possibly think the song is worthy of ANYthing positive. Yet, they post their song and what happens? They get accolade after accolade about how great a song it is. And it truly SUCKS. Not just not-very-good. It sucks.

So, I don't mean this to be a gripe about feedback regarding original songs. I mean it as nothing more than a realization that... really... many people are totally tone-deaf and have no sense of rhythm. No ear.

And we worry ourselves sick over this and that to try to sound this way and that way. Ah, but it makes us feel better if we know we sound the best we can. And I suppose, that makes a difference. After all, we CAN hear.

But it makes me wonder... on occasions that I am moved to tears or bliss as to how good a certain concert performance is... it makes me wonder if these people who are sound-wise clueless... do they feel this bliss that a virtuoso can provide? Or can they feel the same such joy from me?

Sorry, just a rambling thought after I heard the third literally awful tune today.

Everyone knows what that like and most of them hear selectively.
they are the ultimate judges of what you want to sell one way or another.
At American idol they vote with their phones.
At the store they vote with their wallets.
You can never be all things to all people.
I have learned in 72 years of playing music that you play the best you can and know that some of the people will like you work and some won't.
However the next time when you play something different the same two camps will change sides???
Go Figure???

Bebop

SEMILIVEMUSIC...

It seems like you are a tad bit frustrated that people do not respond the way you want them to respond to your music, and with those who think they are musicians that you think are not musicians...

Maybe you will consider the possibility that When You Change The Way You Look At Things, The Things You Look At Will Change.

There are many who just do not enjoy music the way most who play, sing, compose hear and enjoy music. There are many who think they have an "ear" that don't and many who do have an ear. Both of these types usually listen with enjoyment regardless of whether or not they play and/or compose.

One of the great things about being a human being is that no two are identical in every way. So about all we can do as individuals is.....

Be All You Can Be...Be Yourself, Everyone Else Is Taken...
Enjoy All You Do...Do All You Enjoy...
Live Life Moment By Moment...NOW Is All There Is...
Change YOUR Mind... You Will Change YOUR Life... The Only Life You Can Change Is Yours.
The World Transforms As You Transform.

Don't frustrate yourself by "sweating the small stuff." You only hurt yourself. You are the only person you are in charge of and can control....

I am very sorry that you feel so frustrated by what you think about others... Perhaps my words will at least offer something to consider that might be of some help...

That is my only intent. Don't Worry, Be Happy!

Love, Light, Hugs, & Harmony...Elizabeth





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No, it's not that way at all. I am just trying to stimulate discussion on this forum.

The songs I mentioned... and the performers I mentioned... they truly do SUCK. There is no other way to say it.

Do you think that everyone on American Idol is a good musician?

Bill, I live right down the road from you, as you know, and my TV doesn't get American Idol.
I'd rather listen to you!

DonM

ADAM

There's a huge difference between American Idol, where performers ARE deliberately chosen (by Simon Cowell's evil henchmen ) for how extraordinarily BAD they are (I guess the only way to feel good about yourself nowadays is to compare yourself with someone SO bad, there isn't the slightest chance you are worse than they are! ), and songwriter circles where a truly BAD song still has a chance of being successful, but at least the participants aren't deliberately chosen for their awfulness...

The whole POINT about songwriting is that it is supposed to be divorced from performance. I know several successful songwriters. You wouldn't necessarily want to go out and hear them perform , but you listen to other people sing the songs, and have huge hits . Yes, there ARE many 'singer-songwriters', but unless the forum or competition is set up specifically for them, you have to listen to the SONG, not the performance and not the arrangement.

The job of an A&R guy really IS to listen to stuff and disregard the performance. Or many a great song will pass him by.

But in public, on TV and radio, we are no longer a culture that celebrates excellence. We have become a culture that celebrates ourselves! And the most threatening thing for self congratulation is excellence and virtuosity (in others) .

Personally, I would get off a forum that bolsters the egos of the terrible. But be careful... Start to hang in circles where excellence and craft ARE appreciated, you may quickly find out whether you make the grade or not. Just like yourself, people at the business end of the songwriting chain don't suffer fools lightly. Are you SURE you are ready for a totally unvarnished opinion..? Lord knows, I get enough flack here if I ever offer one...

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 05-12-2009).]

And this is a recent revalation?

People on songwriter forums gush over others work hoping they will receive the same in return. No one dares share their real opinion on those sites. You want honest opinion? Join TAXI and submit some work.

Good music is in the ears of the beholder. No opinion really means anything except that of those who put their money up to listen to your music when they want to again and again. Money Talks. Whether you or I like a song or act means nothing. The "craft" of songwriting is alive and well in country music today. However Popular music is RAP Hip Hop and a new tune by an old act now and then.

Shelia Davis is probably screaming in her sleep at what is considered pop music today,As far as I am concerned she is the Lee Strausberg of songwriting and wrote the songwriting Bible

When you decide a song is awful what metric are you using?




[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 05-12-2009).]

Bill:

Songwriting in today's ever-evolving market is truly frustrating for many reasons... as you already know. It is nearly as important to have a network of people who can "open doors" for you and your work... as it is to have songwriting talent.

Finding those contacts is time consuming and nearly requires the skills of a good detective.

A songwriter who does not perform in public is also at a tremendous disadvantage today. Only a few years ago, very few "artists" wrote their own songs... and now, almost every singer or band prefers to "cut out the middleman" by doing their own writing.

While submitting songs to Taxi or other similar organizations may sound like a really good path... I prefer to save my time and money because I have heard so many horror stories about the "interns" who work the boards at these places. Few have real "ears" and most are afraid to take a song to the "pit boss" for fear he/she won't like it and their boring little listening job will be in jeopardy... so they find excuses to have the submitting songwriter do a rewrite or another version, etc.

My answer is to keep on writing and recording while learning as much as I can to improve in about a dozen directions and to try to make contacts who really count. I don't worry too much about the lack of monetary success... although that is my overall objective. Instead, I keep writing with the idea that "all it takes is one."

Bill, after having heard you sing your own work, I don't believe you need to take a back seat to anyone. You are a talent and a genuine individual. Eventually, if your health allows it, you will succeed.

Finally, there are so many talented performers here at the "Zone" I am constantly in awe at how many "lurk" among us here. Mason comes to mind... but it does not end there... LOL!

Regards, Dave
http://www.ShowCaseYourMusic.com/DaveRice