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#96172 - 02/15/07 03:19 PM Re: Tyros III
robkeith1 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 8
I tell you, Yammy are playing a very dangerous game. They need to improve the T2 with some decent changes as have been commented here, in the past. I like many bought the T1, thinking it would be a long time b4 I would need to update, and then the T2, i purchased it thinking the same thing. Twice bitten, three times shy though, so beware Yamaha, we wont be caught out a third time. Please, the board is great, and there are many things you could do to make it better b4 you need another unit out there, I for one on principle, will not buy another unless you have a trade in program or loyalty benifit built into the next release

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#96173 - 02/15/07 04:34 PM Re: Tyros III
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Thanks for the comments..... Don't let my REAL age fool you, I am still a kid (and just as opinionated!) at heart, and have music to thank for it!

I will continue to be an idealist about the weight issue until my back gives out completely, and then I will become a realist...... but I won't be happy about it! I realize the practical necessities for many of light weight portable arrangers, but seldom understand anyone PREFERRING them.

Let's be honest..... if someone else was willing to carry all your gear, would you actually CHOOSE the keybed you play? If not, then you have to acknowledge that your choice is simply a compromise. The main thing is to mitigate it as much as you can, and pressuring manufacturers to use better quality key-beds is the first thing to try....

BTW, as many here know, I am NOT a user of heavy 88-note piano controllers for live use. I think, unless you are PRIMARILY a pianist, and rarely use other sounds, they make playing most non-piano sounds MUCH harder.

I am a HUGE fan of the action that Roland has used (WAY too sparingly IMO) on the G800, G1000, G70 (I have owned all three) and the old A70 master controller. It doesn't weigh much more than a regular 76-er (if the truth be told, most of the weight in a G70 comes from a very stout case, mostly steel, NOT the action itself), but the smoothness of the action, the shape of the keys (very close to piano-sized, especially the blacks, but more rounded to facilitate gliss's and smears on the organ), and the resistance, less than a piano, but more than a B3 (or Yamaha!), for me, and many who have tried one, it's the perfect key-bed.

You can pound it, you can tickle it, it does it all.... If they made a workstation with this action, I would have it! You owe it to yourself to try one, if you haven't already. Then you might understand how I feel.

I am sorry my writing style is so formal, if you met me you would see I'm not QUITE as stuffy as this (my friends might differ!), but being educated in England, back when correct grammar and form were insisted upon, this is how I tend to write. I seldom get to Atlanta, but if I do, I will let you know. And if any of you are in the Destin FL area, feel free to contact me, and I will do my best to be a fun time!

Y'all come back now, y'hear..... Shoot!

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#96174 - 02/15/07 05:27 PM Re: Tyros III
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:


Let's be honest..... if someone else was willing to carry all your gear, would you actually CHOOSE the keybed you play? If not, then you have to acknowledge that your choice is simply a compromise.


Let's be realistic, Diki... you have to acknowledge the fact that no one is going to carry my gear, unless I pay them, which sort of defeats the advantage of solo playing.

Playing the 3k is far from being a compromise...it was my instrument of choice for far more reasons than the weight issue.

As I stated earlier, you can't be making a full time living at gigging, or the weight issue would be much more important.

Waiting till your back gives out before you change, seems to be setting yourself up for even bigger compromises later in your life.

I do respect your choices, but they certainly aren't ones I would choose, but, hey, that's what makes things so interesting.

All the best of luck to you.

Ian






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Cha d’dhùin doras nach d’fhosgail doras.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#96175 - 02/15/07 07:12 PM Re: Tyros III
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Ian..... I appreciate that you ARE one of the few who have legitimately decided that the action of your arranger IS your preferred choice. My comments weren't meant at you specifically, but the majority here at SZ who want light weight at any price. Sorry if I didn't get it down more correctly.

Actually, except for this time of year, the off-season here in the panhandle of FL, when I rest and recuperate(!) and try to get my studio work done (no time for it later, as you'll see), I work an average of six to eight gigs a week during the season, Mar-Oct. Doubles are a mainstay during that time, and I'll often find myself playing for up to eight hours a day or more.

But yes, primarily I work in a duo or larger outfit, and can get help with some of my gear, and I help out with others'. We use a pretty large, pro-sized PA (play outdoors a LOT!) which is a lot heavier than my G70 in it's flight case. So all in all, I'm still lugging around probably a LOT more than most of the portable arranger users here use.

The size of my gigs demand it, or at least it's superiority over our competitors gives us an edge. We have a smaller PA (Mackie sub, Yamaha EMX-5000 and two SRX 12" and horn top cabs) that is still larger than I dare say most use here. But we get top dollar for playing resorts and corporate party gigs, and that level of sound reinforcement is usually expected at that level of employment.

BTW, when I do play the occasional solo, I use the smaller rig, sometimes without the sub if it is a VERY small party or room - those SRX JBL's are amazing...!

You also have to understand, Ian, that while I respect YOUR choice of equipment, it is no more the norm than mine. Usually, the size of the gig determines the size of the PA, at least if you want repeat bookings.... Too small and you may never get that callback!

The feel of the keyboard (even, dare I say it, a TINY bit more than the sound) is what I feel important when you are playing eight hours a day. You have a different priority. Neither of us has a monopoly on the 'truth'. Both methods have their plusses and minuses.

Indeed, if I were doing exclusively solo work, I MIGHT find weight of more importance. But from humping Rhodes's and Hammond's over the years, I have learned to use leverage, dollies, and even the occasional bystander to get the job done! When my back finally DOES give out on me, I only hope that the arranger manufacturers have learned how to put such a high quality key-bed in a composite shell, and then, finally, I'll have the best of both worlds.

But if the continued emphasis on weight, weight, weight, never mind the consequences, continues, THAT is the only thing they will work on. I just try to present another concern...... Yamaha's current top of the line, $4000 arranger has a key-bed that compares poorly to sub-$1000 synths. If they feel an inexpensive synth needs a mid-level quality key-bed, why do they feel that arranger players deserve any less?

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#96176 - 02/15/07 07:17 PM Re: Tyros III
Vadim Offline
Member

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 302
Loc: MA, USA
Why so many people want something new ???
Do you care about playing music , or just wait for new products to appear....
If I'd had Tyros 1, i wouldn't even wait for next model for about 10 years !!!
Keyboards are not cars.

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#96177 - 02/15/07 08:23 PM Re: Tyros III
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Yamaha's current top of the line, $4000 arranger has a key-bed that compares poorly to sub-$1000 synths. If they feel an inexpensive synth needs a mid-level quality key-bed, why do they feel that arranger players deserve any less?


If you were referring to the Tyros1, I might agree with you, but I think you meant the T2, and in that case I strongly disagree.

Personally, I feel the T2 has a superior action to the competition, ...but I am willing to concede the G70 is probably a close second...

I also wouldn't waste my money on either of them as they are vastly overpriced although at the rate that Yamaha is selling T2s you wouldn't think it.

I'm not sure how well the G70 is selling, but from what I hear from dealers in Canada, it isn't exactly leaping off the shelves...but that might be due to Roland's poor marketing system.

Yamaha has nailed that great combination of quality key feel,the exceptional sound of the SA and Mega voices, and a relatively lightweight and high quality case in the Tyros2, and the number of satisfied customers(including the ones on this forum) seems to bear that out.

If the Tyros2 had been born with 76 keys, I'm sure there would be one sitting proudly on Diki's keyboard stand and this banter would not have taken place...you'd be so busy playing, you just wouldn't have the time to write.

All the best,

Ian






------------------
Cha d’dhùin doras nach d’fhosgail doras.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#96178 - 02/16/07 12:47 PM Re: Tyros III
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:
If you were referring to the Tyros1, I might agree with you, but I think you meant the T2, and in that case I strongly disagree.

Personally, I feel the T2 has a superior action to the competition, ...but I am willing to concede the G70 is probably a close second...


You are, of course, perfectly entitled to your opinion, especially given your admission that you play very gently, but if you search the posts here at SZ, you will find I am nowhere near the only person that has commented about the poor T2 action, nor praised the G70's.

But I try not to be a rabid defender of what I have..... There are MANY things from the T2 I would LOVE to be able to use, but also many things I dislike. The same with the G70. If you surf over to the Danish G70 site, you will see I give Roland a VERY hard time about some of their bone-headed decisions (I'm moderator for the Bug forum, amongst other things), and have talked about them here at SZ, too.

MINE is not he best arranger ever, but unfortunately, neither is anything else yet (or I would own it!).....

Now if I could combine the T2's SA and Mega voices, Break/Fill, and multi pads with the Korg's detailed voice editing and sample import, TC Helion and very contemporary drum samples, with the G70's V-Drums and GrandX piano patch, VK-series B3 sim, OS and layout, and of course the action(!), add in the MS's and Wersi's VSTi ability and sample RAM speed loading, wrap it up in a composite shell to bring the total weight down to about 25lbs, and top it of with a dollop of Chord Sequencer features, well, THEN i probably wouldn't have a thing to post about, I'd be too busy playing!

Next year in Jerusalem, eh....?!

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#96179 - 02/16/07 01:02 PM Re: Tyros III
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Well, Diki, if I could find something with all those features, I wouldn't have time to post either.

All the best to you,

Ian

------------------
Cha d’dhùin doras nach d’fhosgail doras.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#96180 - 02/16/07 01:13 PM Re: Tyros III
pianodano Offline
Member

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 122
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia
Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:
Tyros1/2, E-80, etc are for amateur hobbyists...not pros.....

Ian



Dang! I got called a bunch of dirty rotten things for saying that about Tyros back in 2003.

Danny


[This message has been edited by pianodano (edited 02-16-2007).]

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#96181 - 02/16/07 01:33 PM Re: Tyros III
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
You were right about it, just the same Danny.

I wasn't on this site way back then...or I would have defended you.

Ian



------------------
Cha d’dhùin doras nach d’fhosgail doras.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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