What has seemed like a never ending conflict in the Middle East between Israel and Palestine is now escalating again. Israel has been pounded with missiles on and off since 2001 from the Palestinians and now Israel has decided they've had enough and vow to fight "until the bitter end". Unless the Palestinians cease their barrage of rockets into Israel the fighting is going to apparently continue until the rocket fire stops from the Palestinian side, according to government sources in Israel.

This is indeed a sad scenario, and no matter how you look at it, it is a tragedy in the making for both sides. Palestine needs to recognize Israel's right to exist as a Nation, and Israel must do everything in its power to coexist peacefully with the Palestinians. Which is easier said then done, as witnessed by the continual fighting and animosity between them. Please pray for peace in the Middle East and especially now with this current uprising happening between Israel and Palestine.

From what I understand, the president of Palestine is trying to broker peace with Israel but the Hamas in Palestine is trying to hamper and suppress any peace deal. As long as Hamas is in control the situation looks grim for any lasting peace deal. I believe Israel is well aware of that fact and has ultimately had to resort to force to try and subdue Hamas' influence in the region which is resulting in this blood bath. Israel has the right to defend themselves of course, but this blood bath could have been averted in the first place if Hamas hadn't perpetrated the violence to begin with by firing the rockets into Israel near the Gaza strip region. Hopefully it will be resolved between the two of them quickly and peace will be restored to the region. Lasting peace is my hope too, instead of the temporary cease fires and so called truces we have witnessed on an ongoing basis for years between the two of them.

All the best,
Mike

This should be moved to the bar.

Anyway, there may be a simpler solution for them, even simpler than prayer. US can simply withdraw monetary and moral support from Israel. About 5 picoseconds later, everyone around will jump on Israel. Israel releases its nukes, and next day, the sun will shine on one gigantic glass parking lot, where Israel, Palestine, Syria, Jordan et al used to exist. About 2-3 weeks later, I will post my last words on Synthzone, while slowly dying from radiation poisoning. Problem solved.

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[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 12-29-2008).]

.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 12-29-2008).]

Considering Israel were "given" this land by the USA and the UK in 1947, with no more evidence than spurious passages in a book predominantly written by the jewish people, I reckon they should show more gratitude that they even have a "homeland".

And now they (Israel) are unilaterally deciding the people of Palestine need to be put in their kennel yet again with this latest "declaration of war", and disgusting barrage of rocket attacks.

I agree with a previous comment that ALL foreign aid and funding to Israel should cease, permanently...Let them see how they go without the military support (covert) of the USA.

Whilst I STRONGLY disagree with the Palestinian methods (ie the terror and violence et al) , I can certainly understand their cause.

After all how would you guys feel if two or more foreign countries decided arbitrarily to give the state of Washington for example, to some people who had no hard evidence apart from word of mouth, but claimed it was theirs.

You would be upset, and rightly so.

I think people need to re-visit where this all started, why it started, who actually caused it and then maybe show a little more empathy.

I will probably be castigated for these views, as this is predominantly a U.S forum but I don't really care.

Dennis

They have been at it for 3,000 years...don't think it will stop anytime soon. They hate each other...how do you fix that?

Would be great to see peace there for sure.

Lee

@ Miden,

I agree with you 100%. Most people will just repeat the crap that they hear on CNN, without even bothering to uncover the cause of the conflict.

Yo, all you Native Americans take note.

Actually, it's okay Dennis, as long as you 'DISCOVER' it.


In fact, I think I'm gonna go out and 'discover' a nice new Mercedes S-class.

chas

Hey Chas,
Nah, that's not what I meant.

There is PLENTY of hard evidence the North American Indians were there prior to white settlement/invasion. Same as our aboriginal people, plenty of evidence.

And btw I was NOT criticising the USA or it's population in general, not at all. Apologies if it came across that way.

We all know political decisions are made all the time that have NO relevance to what the general population want/need.

Dennis

Until God shows Himself again where those in power are not afraid to lose their political power through faith, there will never be peace. Israelites chose not to believe Isiah the prophet 2000 years ago and have paid ever since. Muslims don;t want the decadence of the US moral code of "anything goes" because many suddenly shout "there is no Creator" to spread throughout their people and will die to keep it so.

The Jewish are still waiting for their "Savior" who has come and gone yet they cannot possibly fulfill all the laws and sacrificial ritual of the Old Testament as God demanded in today's world that God sent Jesus to deem unnecessary.

No there will never be peace and the US population is slowly losing patience with the saving of Israel as they lose faith in any God which many jokingly claim an "imaginary friend" seems rather odd to me because they vote mostly on the side of liberalism in this country. Liberals would just as soon keep our noses out of anything amiss in the Middle east or religion at all!


Prayers won't help. FAITH is the key to peace

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 12-30-2008).]

I wish everyone who reads this post go to the public library and pick up a book by A.B.C. Whipple entitled To The Shores Of Tripoli. I've owned a copy for a decade, and it will put things in perspective. Essentially, this will never end, and there will never be peace in the Middle East.

Gary

Faith may lead to inner peace, but opposing faiths is the recipe for never ending conflict... It's when God is on BOTH sides that things get ugly.

While I support Israel's right to exist, it's occupation of Gaza after the wars should have ended long ago. The US does not still occupy Japan, or Germany, or Korea. Why do we support a government that keeps occupying lands that should LONG ago have been returned to it's people..?

Israel should regain the high moral ground by returning to the borders decreed for it after WWII. THEN bomb the crap out of anybody that attacks THAT...

But just to show I can see both sides of the coin ....

Imagine if we had ceded Texas to the Jewish people after the Holocaust... George Bush would be a 'freedom fighter' (or as we would put it 'terrorist') this very day

HI DIKI

ISRAEL is not occupy GAZZA for 2 years , but the Palestinians CONTINUE SENDUNG MISSLES to THE CITIES IN ISRAEL most of the time and not again militarry targets , but again civilian and their homes

dud

Kingfrog, I am impressed with your knowledge and understanding, thumbs up for you.

John C.

Any type of war or fighting is sad and innocent is the victims, but please this should not be a topic on this forum. I can see the thread going south of the border real fast and it's only going to infuriate people because of it very sensitive nature.

Please let’s just stick to arranger talk, music, mine is better than yours, even though you may hurt my arrangers feelings but it does not become personal.

Going to War over Religion is basically killing one another to see who's got the better imaginary friend.

Also, I think this topic should be moved to The Bar.

Ian

Correctamundo...religion & politics don't mix with music at all.

Actually Donny, my friend, sometimes music, politics and religion are inextricably mixed...consider hymns and protest songs, for example.

I just feel this topic should be discussed elsewhere...like in The Bar...it has nothing to do with arranger keyboards.

Ian

Happy New Year

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 12-30-2008).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dnj:
[B]

Happy New Year


I respect all beliefs, but there's a place for it.

It does in MY church (Unitarian-Universalist). In fact, religion comes in a distant third. The only time you hear 'Jesus Christ' is if someone slips on the step.

I agree that it belongs in the Bar. In fact ALL religions belong in a bar, along with all the fanatics that can't seem to tolerate any belief other than their own.


chas

So are you telling me that Israel occupies NO land other than what was ceded to it in '47?

As do many other things that are discussed on the "general arranger forum".

Only error of the OP was not prefacing the thread with O.T.

I think the words "pray" and "Middle East" might have been clues enough...

I pray that Middle East will continue to produce oil and sell it cheap!

Well "duh!"

Anyway your comment is beside the point...which WAS, many other things that SHOULD be in the Bar or in General Discussion have been posted on this forum, including matters of a US political nature, so why should this one be singled out as being inappropriate.

Dennis

PS: For the record I agree it would have been better placed in either of the afore-mentioned forums.

You caught on quicker than I thought you would Dennis.

Seven donkeys and a concubine cannot compare with the tarnished sheen left in your path of combustion.

Ian

Ian I'd battle you with wit, but I would be fighting an unarmed man. So it would be unfair.

That is soooo OLD...but, that's okay Dennis...I have learned that the expanse of your intelligence is a void no universe could ever fill.

The longer you post here...diverse it gets.

LOL !

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ianmcnll:
[B]Going to War over Religion is basically killing one another to see who's got the better imaginary friend.

Also, I think this topic should be moved to The Bar.

Ian
It is not religion that leads people to kill each other – It is how people use religion for their own cause. Most of the religions teach harmony and peace.

And yes, this topic does belong elsewhere.

John C.

True John, and we should repsect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children are smart.

Pardon my ignorance, but war, religion and such topics should be posted elsewhere.
I can't see that the SZ are the proper place, not even in The Bar.
As some already might know, discussion like this, specially in Bars, often ends up in
fights ... oh well, at least they have music playing while they knock eachother down.
But of course, that's only my personal point of view.

Cheers
GJ

This subject matter does not belong here! I stand with those opposed to this kind of a posting here on the SZ, but for different reasons.

I also oppose reading the obituary postings that some members have been contributing.

I come in here to get away from this kind of news. It's my escape from the real world (even with the bickering that goes on in here). It's like a Twilight Zone meets Alice in Wonderland for musicians here and I for one would like to keep it that way!

If I want a dose of ugly reality, if I want to get depressed, if I need a reason for not wanting to play music anymore, I can get this kind of info in any TV newscast. I don't need to be reminded of it here!

Speaking for myself, I would appreciate not seeing these "world news" headings in here. And if I want to know who "just died," I can read a newspaper. If they're a big name, it will be on page 1. If it's not on page 1, I don't need to know about it!

Lucky

Whats so difficult about reading a heading and passing it by? I don't like the Obits either. But I just don;t open the thread rather then open it and then contribute to it whining about it..

Because I don;t like to read about death someone should not post it? Hardly. Post away.

Because someone feels empathy for a certain group under duress in the world they may or may not identify with they should not ask for prayers from the faithful??

the non believers and non interested are free to read another post about the wonders of the Audya!!! The rest of us will pray for peace and the comfort of the OP who feels strongly about this issue and as an artist is most likely more sensitive then most..

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 12-30-2008).]

Things to Remember During a War

1. The only things more accurate than enemy fire is friendly fire.

2. Try to look unimportant, they may be low on ammo.

3. Teamwork is essential. It gives them more targets to shoot at.

4. No inspection-ready unit ever passed combat.

5. No combat-ready unit ever passed inspection.

6. Remember: your aircraft was made by the lowest bidder.

7. Never draw fire, it will irritate the rest of your formation.

8. Never share a cockpit with someone braver than you.

9. You are not Tom Cruise.

10. SAMs and AAA have the right-of-way.

11. If you aren't sure, the SAMs are pointed at you.

12. If hit, landing near the people that just shot you down is not a good idea.

13. Close only counts in horseshoes, nukes and proximity-fused missiles.

14. Smart bombs have bad days too.

15. The best defense is to stay out of range.

16. If you are short on everything but enemy, you are in combat.

King....

There's a time and place for everything.....mostly "place."

Words are powerful. I'm about as sensitive as any musician. When I go down the list of threads, which is a necessity, and see "Pray for peace in the middle East," I'm already affected. It stands out like an egg in a turnip patch.

I'm not reading Network news. I come here to read about music and musicians...not world affairs.

Sure I have sympathy for the cause. I've been reading about it like everyone else. But I keep the subject in it's place.

No, I don't have to read the thread and most times I don't. The heading alone bothers me.

And what if this gets out of hand, and it becomes the norm for this room?

Now there are many non-musical topics I'd like to bring up myself......MANY! But I stick to music topics, which is what this room is set up for. Why should I take up space with my own issues?

>>>>>>>>> "Because someone feels empathy for a certain group under duress in the world they may or may not identify with they should not ask for prayers from the faithful?"<<<<<<<<

Last I looked this is not a church. And, also, although I sympathize with the innocents who are being affected over there, I resent being told I need to pray over the situation. I will pray because I want to, not because someone wants to send me on a guilt trip.

Lastly....this is no reflection on Mike (OP). He means well and I agree with everything he has said...and I DO feel as strongly as HE does about it. As musicians, we're trained to bring beauty into the world. These kinds of situations are particularly difficult for folks like us to digest.

If you'll look closely, my only beef was not with what Mike said but that it should not have been presented in a room geared towards music talk. Would you go to a meeting of Weight Watcher's and start talking about the situation in Israel/Gaza?

Lucky

If we remember that this forum is not a local area meetingplace where maybe 95%
of the "gang" usually have the same opinion of different matters, but a global
forum where visitors and members from all over the world meet, it may be easier
to avoid topics like this.
As far as I know, (correct me if I'm wrong), no wars are started because of any
music matters, but it sure has because of religion and hunger for more land, gold
and so on.
Let's keep the SZone the "Nigel way", about music and friendship no matter religion
or ethnical origin!

Cheers, and Happy New Year to everybody!
GJ

I feel that there has been some good sharing on this topic, it has renewed our awareness and it was a good post – But it is time to put it away. Religion and politics normally start with good intentions – when carried too far they seem to bring out the dark side of people.

I am glad this subject was posted and now let’s go back to music. Amen!

John C.

Aren't you the OP of "The Safe Zone: where you can drop off your thoughts safely". Where your first line was "I’m hoping Nigel doesn’t mind me trying this idea out." Apparently you have no issue with going off topic.

How do you justify "allowing" safe places to post ones thoughts regarding anything yet deny another the same?

If I went to "weight watchers" and someone asked the group to pray about something they fell strongly about, as a believer who puts his beliefs far above his "weight" I would do the exact same thing and support and defend the person making a simple request. Then move on to food.....

Its OK..no one is TELLING you to pray for anything....Someone is asking...

Sometimes people feel so strongly about something so painful to them they seek the support of those they are most close to. There is nothing ever wrong with that.Ever. There is always a time and a place for that.

Its 7 words! SEVEN WORDS Read them, ignore them, get angry,judgmental,whatever AND PASS. I have not even opened one single Obituary thread. I'm not interested. I won;t go into the thread and post my distaste or offense at the subject!!! Freddy Hubbard is dead. He had a great life. He will be enjoying a greater life now. Sad for those he left behind. OK. No need to open the thread. No need to school the OP on the appropriate nature of the post as it relates to "General Arrangers"

By passing on the thread you allow the faithful to help and comfort. IS that such a bad thing? The non believers and non interested can move on. The OP is comforted to know he is not alone in his feelings and maybe just maybe feels a little better knowing others he shares a special interest with care a little bit too.

NIGEL is the ONLY forum cop. Apparently he feels some empathy for the event and/or poster and is not offended by something that is bigger than any Arranger keyboard and for a single moment in time will allow someone to ask for prayer using 7 words out of millions in the forum.

I applaud him for allowing the small deference to the subject at hand.

Oh and you can call me "Frog" Its more appropriate.




[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 12-31-2008).]

It's a good topic, but I agree the Bar is more appropriate for it. Sure we go off topic a lot on the arranger forum, but some topics are quite sensitive to some members. Topics like Religion can quickly go downhill..., you then add politics to it and BAM you got yourself one massive crap shoot. Again.., it's a good post, but probaby better placed in the Bar.

Now if one of those missles hits my gear.., then it's on! Until then I say keep it at the level of "Bar Talk".

The Vatican came out and condemned Israel's attacks on Lebanon ... which is great, because all along the Jews and Muslims were asking, 'What do the Catholics think?'

Religion professes peace but it always turns out to have a dominant part in any war that is going or contemplated.

Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer.

Prayer allows you to do nothing and still think you're helping.

If you still want to do the prayer thingy, why not have a prayer meeting The Bar?

We get it! You are a non believer.....Its ok. Allow us the "weakness" of our "fantasy" and "Imaginary friend." Why even open the thread? To antagonize believers? I don;t understand why those who believe they are simply biologically random functions with no purpose, despise any open or public thought to the contrary and enjoy trampling on another's pain through ridicule and man's infinitesimal logic and understanding.
Amazing.

Why thank you, Frog...how kind of you to let me have my own non-beliefs.

Just to show I'm not entirely without compassion for your weakness(or strength...depends how you look at it I guess), here is a prayer just for you:

Insofar as I may be heard by anything, which may or may not care what I say, I ask, if it matters, that you be forgiven for anything you may have done or failed to do which requires forgiveness. Conversely, if not forgiveness but something else may be required to insure any possible benefit for which you may be eligible after the destruction of your body, I ask that this, whatever it may be, be granted or withheld, as the case may be, in such a manner as to insure your receiving said benefit. I ask this in my capacity as your elected intermediary between yourself and that which may not be yourself, but which may have an interest in the matter of your receiving as much as it is possible for you to receive of this thing, and which may in some way be influenced by this ceremony. Amen.




[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 12-31-2008).]

Kingfrog...AMEN!!!

BTW: I could never understand the big problem with off topics....I don't believe this group (site) was designed as a information/help group only..

I have always viewed it as a place where friends and rivals meet....sure there are helpful post..also console posts...request and thanks post...I think you understand what I am saying..

An example...if the same folks visited me at my home...Would I send different folks into different rooms..depending on the conversation getting away from arranger keyboards?

Of course not...as most people here are long time members and know each other pretty well, why do we need the separation for off topic discussions..It doesn't work that way when I am with friends...even though we disagree on things..it still is okay to discuss our views...without being sent to the bath room..

How true.

It is not skeptics or explorers, but fanatics and ideologues who menace decency and progress.

Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.

Maybe we should start by just praying for peace on Synthzone. Once we accomplish that, we can move on to the middle east. I'll start.

I forgive you Fran.



chas


.....on second thought

Deleted because on reflection I thought it was a bit harsh.

Peace is the word not conflict.

Dennis

[This message has been edited by miden (edited 12-31-2008).]

Chas,

I forgive you for forgiving Fran.
Ian

Edited because the response was no longer relevant.

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 12-31-2008).]

And then we wonder why wars get started...

I'm just grateful none of YOU have a Katoushka rocket launcher handy... My house would have been a smoking pile of rubble LONG ago..!

And Ian... stop pretending you are an atheist. We ALL know you worship Yamaha

But I'm not an atheist, Diki...I'm a realist.

Well I think it's safe to pull the handle on this topic and watch the pretty blue water circle the bowl.

One would think a 'realist' would want an arranger that sounds 'REAL'...

(Notice how I'm trying to deflect the bickering back to topics that seem acceptable Mind you, you would think that if bickering was unacceptable, it wouldn't matter WHAT we were bickering about, would it? )


[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 12-31-2008).]

But of course...that's why I have a Yamaha.

Amen.

BTW...Nice deflection.

You must be playing tonight?

I kinda like having it off for a change.

No, chose to avoid the drunken festivities this year...

I'm helping a friend with a teen club get sound right for a bunch of kids to play, than maybe going out later just to jam a bit and enjoy myself.

BTW, you REALLY need to get to play with a drummer and bassist soon... If you think that S900 sounds 'real', you need a wake-up call! The saxes, yep... spot on. The drums? Not even CLOSE!

Yeah, I don't miss the drunken festivities either.

The S900 works perfectly for me in arranger play...I keep the drums low for my type of work....I don't do dance gigs, just nice quiet restaurant stuff.

I prefer laid back material and the standards...nothing too aggressive....the S900 has some terrific mega basses, especially the Acoustic.

Ian

That's all any of can do... mitigate the weak areas of our arrangers (they ALL have 'em!), emphasize the strong

I've long said that if I did gigs like yours, I'd probably get an S900.

Looks like 2009 is going to present some interesting challenges to us all, with the economy going the way it is... I wish you, and all here at SZ, if not a prosperous New Year, at least a survivable one!

Yes, it looks that way for me as well in the new year...I don't think I'll be doing as much "live" play(except for Yamaha demos)and will be focusing on some steady studio work that will come my way beginning in February.

I'm looking forward to it...and I'll get to really put the KX8 to good use.

I hope you have a great New Year too...you have lots of versatile playing skills so you will survive.

Ian

King: Aren't you the OP of "The Safe Zone: where you can drop off your thoughts safely". Where your first line was "I’m hoping Nigel doesn’t mind me trying this idea out." Apparently you have no issue with going off topic.

Lucky: Yes, King….I’m the OP of “The Safe Zone.” Maybe that’s where I should have posted my thoughts on this subject and then I would not have had a Kingfrog, the Guardian Angel, and Chief Monitor of the SynthZone go on the attack. You see, the only thing that can destroy the SafeZone is Kryptonite. And I don’t believe they sell Kryptonite in MB! Not even on the Black Market!

King: How do you justify "allowing" safe places to post ones thoughts regarding anything yet deny another the same?

Lucky: Because I set up a “safe zone” thread and the other person did NOT! The Safe Zone happens to have impenetrable walls, is surrounded by a force field and an electrified fence topped with barbed wire and has a moat full of crocodiles. It cannot be infiltrated by those who would do me harm. Amen, brother!

King: If I went to "weight watchers" and someone asked the group to pray about something they fell strongly about, as a believer who puts his beliefs far above his "weight" I would do the exact same thing and support and defend the person making a simple request. Then move on to food.....

Lucky: King...enough with this “believer” stuff! I’m a “believer” also. I walk with the Almighty One as much as YOU say you do. The only difference here is I don’t flaunt it.

Lucky: And as for talking about “praying for peace in the Middle East,” I can guarantee you your membership would be revoked in a heartbeat if you started talking “current events” at a place where people meet to discuss how they’re going to lose their next 20 lbs.

Lucky: Reference you readiness to “defend” the other person…. I believe “other persons” who do posts here don’t need a “defender.” Maybe you could use your “defender persona” to battle crime in Gotham City with Batman & Robin or maybe join the Red Berets in Harlem.

King: Its OK..no one is TELLING you to pray for anything....Someone is asking...

Lucky: I don’t come onto the SynthZone to “pray.” I come here to discuss making music. That is something YOU should be doing rather than standing around playing Guardian Angel. You’re making this scenario sound like a Jimmy Stewart movie.

King: Sometimes people feel so strongly about something so painful to them they seek the support of those they are most close to. There is nothing ever wrong with that. Ever. There is always a time and a place for that.

Lucky: Yes, and the time and place is NOT here. Oh sorry about that….I almost infringed on the King’s own set of rules.

King: Its 7 words! SEVEN WORDS Read them, ignore them, get angry,judgmental,whatever AND PASS. I have not even opened one single Obituary thread. I'm not interested. I won;t go into the thread and post my distaste or offense at the subject!!! Freddy Hubbard is dead. He had a great life. He will be enjoying a greater life now. Sad for those he left behind. OK. No need to open the thread. No need to school the OP on the appropriate nature of the post as it relates to "General Arrangers"

Lucky: Well good for you...and good for me too...I don’t have to take the time to respond to this paragraph!

King: By passing on the thread you allow the faithful to help and comfort. IS that such a bad thing? The non believers and non interested can move on. The OP is comforted to know he is not alone in his feelings and maybe just maybe feels a little better knowing others he shares a special interest with care a little bit too.

Lucky: This is what churches are for, and support groups, and counselors, and therapists, and wives, and sometimes even talking to the “wall” helps, maybe even your pet! I belong to other music groups on the Net. When subject matter like this is introduced, it’s hustled right out the back door within a day. The members in those groups are busy talking about music, and they don’t want their momentum to be interrupted with “off-topics.” This is something YOU should be doing (talking about music) instead of “hanging” around playing the part of an SZ police officer.

King: NIGEL is the ONLY forum cop. Apparently he feels some empathy for the event and/or poster and is not offended by something that is bigger than any Arranger keyboard and for a single moment in time will allow someone to ask for prayer using 7 words out of millions in the forum.

Lucky: It wasn’t a “single moment” in time” that passed on immediately. It would have been if you had not chosen to drag this thing out with your rather taunting follow-up post. It appears that YOU are the one who wants to rule this nest and make your own rules here and Heaven forbid if someone should express a thought that doesn’t measure up to your standards.

King: I applaud him for allowing the small deference to the subject at hand.

Oh and you can call me "Frog" Its more appropriate

Lucky: I’d rather call you King, because apparently the Frog part of your name takes a distant 2nd to the “King” moniker.

Now, what exactly is the beef here? Where did I upset “his Royal Highness?” Is it possible you’re jealous of me because I happen to be a player and you’re a talker?

Lucky

P.S Please do me a favor and make your rebuttal to what I wrote here short (oooohhh...I KNOW there will be a rebuttal). Although I type fast, I'd rather spend this time practicing the keyboard. Something you might want to consider yourself.

[This message has been edited by Lucky2Bhere (edited 01-01-2009).]

So much BS..for naught. You could have played though 10 pages of Hanon instead with a better result.(is that short enough?)

-King (as you wish)




[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 01-02-2009).]