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#67121 - 06/03/08 09:27 AM prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
fredyfr Offline
Member

Registered: 12/15/07
Posts: 80
Loc: altea, spain
Using piano, organ or vibes blockcords for an hour or more the upper left part of the case gets fairly warm if not to say hot.
Is it hazardous to play blockcords for a longer period???

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#67122 - 06/03/08 11:05 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
RMepstead Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 1478
Loc: Wootton Bassett - Wiltshire - ...
Not quite sure what you mean by blockcords but I don't think what you play in any way relates to part of your keyboard overheating...
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Roger M

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#67123 - 06/04/08 12:35 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
fredyfr Offline
Member

Registered: 12/15/07
Posts: 80
Loc: altea, spain
I push technichord button and chose "block" and play fingered chords with left hand and get very nice chords with only playing one note with right hand. You know George Shearing, that kind of sound. I would not really call it "overheating" but simply had never noticed that warmth on upper left case. Mz question is simply: does prolongued chord playing damage the board??

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#67124 - 06/04/08 12:51 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
KeithB Offline
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Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 317
Loc: Melbourne AUSTRALIA
I take it that you do not experience heating if the block chord harmony function is not being used?
Keith

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#67125 - 06/04/08 02:54 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
Bernie9 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 3923
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
My KN7000 has been getting warm in back of the lid for several years. My tech told me it apparently is not hurting anything, and to turn it off during breaks, if I wanted to. I have never bothered to do that.
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#67126 - 06/04/08 02:59 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
RMepstead Offline
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Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 1478
Loc: Wootton Bassett - Wiltshire - ...
Hi Freddy
Slightly off your question but try 'Close' as well as 'Block' - it delivers a much better harmony....
I'll leave me keyboard on for a while and see if mine heats up as well.
Rog
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Roger M

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#67127 - 06/04/08 12:44 PM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
RMepstead Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 1478
Loc: Wootton Bassett - Wiltshire - ...
Nope - mine doesn't heat up at all, thankfully...
Rog
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Roger M

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#67128 - 06/05/08 03:51 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
Audrey Turner Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 1084
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, England
My KN7000 has heated up since I bought it in 2005 and to the extent you can barely touch it with your hand. On querying this with the experts, I was told to ignore it and I do. However, during 'gig' breaks I always turn it off.

Audrey

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#67129 - 06/05/08 04:35 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
fredyfr Offline
Member

Registered: 12/15/07
Posts: 80
Loc: altea, spain
Thank you all, you reassure me completely on the issue of "heating up", especially Audrey. Also a little special "hello" to Roger whose recommendation for using in
Technichord not only "block" but also "close" gives excellent results when looking for the George Shearing kind of sound.

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#67130 - 06/05/08 09:31 PM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
kitkat Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 235
Loc: United States
Page 202 of the manual clearly states that the instrument has a built-in power source that heats the cabinet to some degree and is not an indication of trouble.

I personally don't think there is a good comparison between "Block" and "Close" for a Shearing sound. "Block" is by far the better choice. "Close" is based on three notes of harmony whereas, "Block" is based on five notes, which is more what Shearing used. It also is a much more advanced and pleasing sounding harmony regardless of use.

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#67131 - 06/06/08 01:30 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
fredyfr Offline
Member

Registered: 12/15/07
Posts: 80
Loc: altea, spain
Hi Kitkat,
You seem to know plenty and I haven't even
reached page 202 in the book but it is good to know that we can carry on playing blockchords without limitation. I do also prefer "block" to "close" as it gives a "richer" sound, my left hand chords being mostly based on 4 notes.

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#67132 - 06/06/08 07:04 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 11311
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
My favorite "Shearing sound" on my kn6000 is accomplished by playing 'Piano' in R1 and 'Vibes and Guitar' in R2 while simultaneously using Block chords ... Full and Rich
t.
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t. cool

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#67133 - 06/06/08 12:00 PM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
D.Munson Offline
Member

Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 397
Loc: UK
Quote:
Originally posted by Audrey Turner:
My KN7000 has heated up since I bought it in 2005 and to the extent you can barely touch it with your hand. On querying this with the experts, I was told to ignore it and I do. However, during 'gig' breaks I always turn it off.

Audrey
My KN7000 dosen't get hot at all
Derek

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#67134 - 06/07/08 12:56 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
fredyfr Offline
Member

Registered: 12/15/07
Posts: 80
Loc: altea, spain
Hi Tony,
I have just checked the composition of my favourite Shearing-Sound and it results being exactly the same as you describe. If I remember correctly I did not even have to register it myself because it was already included in one of the Music Stylist Jazz Arrangements.


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#67135 - 06/07/08 01:26 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
fredyfr Offline
Member

Registered: 12/15/07
Posts: 80
Loc: altea, spain
Hello Roger and Derek,
Now this is rather strange, both of you have KN7000s that do not get warm or hot whilst Audreys' gets so hot she can hardly touch it. As Kitkat rightly exposed, the Operating Instructions on page 202 state "this instrument has a built-in power source that heats the cabinet to some degree but that it is NOT an indication of trouble". Maybe, depending on different countries, different power sources have been installed and thus resulting different warming-up processes. Otherwise it would seem difficult to understand why certain boards get warm or hot and others not at all.

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#67136 - 06/07/08 02:55 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
Bill Norrie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 2275
Loc: Richmond,North Yorkshire, UK
I believe there is an internal cooling fan fitted in the KN7000. If it stops working, then obviously the internal temperature will rise. I seem to remember that I could hear a fan in my KN6000.............
I've listened very carefully to my KN7000 after it has been operating for an hour or so, but was unable to detect any fan 'noise'. However, some fans do operate with little or no obvious noise. I cannot detect any excessive temperature on the outer casing on my KN7000, even after a full evening's use.

Incidentally, Roger, Derek and Audrey are all UK based so I would expect that all their keyboards have identical specs.

Alec may be able to confirm whether or not a fan is fitted.

[This message has been edited by Bill Norrie (edited 06-07-2008).]
_________________________
Willum

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is Music.
Aldous Huxley

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#67137 - 06/07/08 04:18 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
Fran D Offline
Member

Registered: 01/26/02
Posts: 918
Loc: Aiken, SC, USA
I no longer have my 7000 or the repair manual but those having the manual could determine if there is a fan. Maybe Bob H.

Fran in SC

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#67138 - 06/07/08 07:25 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
Bob Hendershot Offline
Member

Registered: 12/02/99
Posts: 924
Loc: Johnson City, TN USA
I am not aware of any cooling fan in the KN7000 but haven't really looked for one. I see no reference to a fan in the service manual. The power transformer is located just to the right of the speakers on the top left side and would probably be the source of any heat felt in that area. My KN7000 gets slightly warm in that area after it has been on for a while but I wouldn't call it "hot".

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#67139 - 06/07/08 09:10 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
Bill Norrie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 2275
Loc: Richmond,North Yorkshire, UK
I forgot that I have a PDF copy of a Service Manual for the KN7000 Having had a look through it, there are 11 references on page 50, to "FAN BAG" - whatever they are - but as Bob says, no direct reference to an actual fan.

My KN7000 has been switched on for about 2 1/2 hours now and the warmest part I find, is not directly above the power transformer. If you close the 'lid', you will see 5 white rectangular rubber stops along the middle part of the upper surface. The warmest part I find, and it is only slightly warm, is mid-way between the second and third rubber stop, from the left end of the cabinet. The Manual indicates that directly under this area, is a printed circuit board which contains all the Power Supply Regulators and the Power Amplifiers, which drive the internal speakers. This being the case, I would expect that area to be a little warm, but certainly not too hot to touch
_________________________
Willum

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is Music.
Aldous Huxley

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#67140 - 06/07/08 09:53 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
RMepstead Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 1478
Loc: Wootton Bassett - Wiltshire - ...
Just to add a little bit of light-heartedness...I am convinced that my KN7000 is getting heavier the more styles and registrations I save to the SD Card....!
Rog
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Roger M

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#67141 - 06/07/08 04:46 PM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
Audrey Turner Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 1084
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, England
Hello Folks!

Just to add more mystery to the heating up of the KN7, you may recall when Technics ceased trading I bought a second KN7 as a "standby". This was hardly used by the last owner and is in immaculate condition whereas the keys are beginning to show 'wear and tear' on my own KN7. I took this second keyboard to a 'WW2 Reunion' gig last night.
I started playing at 6.30pm and with just a 15 minute break, finished at 11 pm. The keyboard was on all the time and I noticed on packing up that it wasn't so much as lukewarm. How strange is that?

Another thing, they both show the same version, yet the latest KN7 sound is more
'mellow' than the other and yes! I have investigated as to whether it is setup differently when in the Factory Mode and it isn't. One of the mysteries of life I guess.

Audrey

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#67142 - 06/07/08 04:59 PM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
kitkat Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 235
Loc: United States
Where Bill states the warmth is, is exactly where slight warmth is on my KN7000. At times, I have my keyboard on for 6 or seven hours with very little warmth. I am in the U.S. and the voltage is 110. Could it be that many of you in the U.K. and Europe with different voltage be the reason for this "hot" problem? I could be wrong but I think most of Europe is 220 V. Is this correct?

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#67143 - 06/08/08 04:05 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
Fran D Offline
Member

Registered: 01/26/02
Posts: 918
Loc: Aiken, SC, USA
I think Rog has the answer. The more items stored in memory causes the search engine to over heat while searching.

Fran in SC

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#67144 - 06/08/08 11:59 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
Audrey Turner Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 1084
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, England
I think you could be right about the electricity differenc Kit Kat. Over here we are 240v, but it doesn't explain the difference between the two keyboards. They are loaded with exactly the same amount of data on each so I don't think it's anything to do with memory. It could however be due to them being manufactured at different times. Still! as long they both respond/play correctly I'll be happy.

Audrey

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#67145 - 06/08/08 02:58 PM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
Bernie9 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 3923
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
Fran
It sounds like you and Rog don't believe the block chords is causing the heat up. I'd bet you don't believe in the tooth fairy,either.
_________________________
pa4X 76 ,Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station

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#67146 - 06/08/08 07:32 PM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
kitkat Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 235
Loc: United States
One thing that no one has thought of is that the company may have used various power supplies from companies - a very common practice. If so, it is possible that some could overheat more than others. I do think that any unit that has a lot of heat will likely have a shorter life than units that don't generate as much heat.

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#67147 - 06/09/08 03:45 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
fredyfr Offline
Member

Registered: 12/15/07
Posts: 80
Loc: altea, spain
that was a laugh with Bernies' "tooth fairy".
Ok, but we still don't know if there is or not a fan inside which could explain plenty.
In UK current is apparently 240 and on the continent 220 volts. Not being an electrician I would not venture to say that there might be a reason for this issue of warming-up.

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#67148 - 06/09/08 12:46 PM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
Bill Norrie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 2275
Loc: Richmond,North Yorkshire, UK
As Bob H. and I said above, there does not appear to be a fan listed within the parts list in the Service manual, but there are references to 'FAN BAGS' ???
I'm fairly certain that there was a fan in the KN6000 so it seems strange that one should not be included in the KN7000. I suppose the only certain way to find out is to remove the top cover, but I'm not inclined to do so at present

Whether the supply voltage is 220/240 or 110/115 should not make any difference to the heat generated by the Power Supply printed circuit board, mentioned in my previous post. The supply voltage will be dropped down, by the internal Mains Transformer, to the same feed voltage to the Power Supply PCB - probably around '18v' AC or so.
So for example, depending on the model, the Transformer will reduce the 240/220 to say 18v - or in the case of USA - 110/115 to '18v' AC.
In fact, there are three different transformers listed : one for USA/Canada, one for the Far East (With a voltage selector switch) and one for the rest of the world, including UK/Europe. So, each transformer would deliver the same Output voltage to the Rectifier and subsequent Voltage Regulators. This allows a common Power Supply PCB to be used in all models, irrespective of Mains Supply.

So basically, the transformer takes care of the differences in Supply Voltage and no significant extra heating should be generated, as a result of the keyboard operating at a higher voltage - unless, of course, someone decides to operate a 110/115v model at 220/240v
_________________________
Willum

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is Music.
Aldous Huxley

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#67149 - 06/10/08 12:10 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
Audrey Turner Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 1084
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, England
Here's another mystery for you all.

The KN7 belonging to one of our keyboard members not only warms up similar to mine, but also makes a noise (which he calls "spitting") for a fraction of a second.
It only does this now and again but when it does it is enough to 'startle' the musician who's playing at the time.

Could this be an electrical short circuit do you think Bill? If so, what's the cure?

Audrey

[This message has been edited by Audrey Turner (edited 06-10-2008).]

[This message has been edited by Audrey Turner (edited 06-10-2008).]

[This message has been edited by Audrey Turner (edited 06-10-2008).]

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#67150 - 06/10/08 03:10 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
Fran D Offline
Member

Registered: 01/26/02
Posts: 918
Loc: Aiken, SC, USA
My 7000 also got very warm while playing. When the sound quit, I removed the cover to check for fuses and I did not see any fan in the power supply board area only heat sinks. I do not remember the part name but it's cost was only about $20 and I was fortunate to find a repair man that was not just a board changer, which is prevalent today.

Fran in SC

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#67151 - 06/10/08 03:06 PM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
RMepstead Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 1478
Loc: Wootton Bassett - Wiltshire - ...
At our Technics keyboard club meeting this evening we had the opportunity to get round the back of a warm KN7000 and we learnt something very interesting...
At the back of the keyboard there is what looks like a hole into which you can place your hand. If you have a lively rhythm going at a reasonable volume on your KN7000 fanned air exudes from this hole in time to the rhythm...conclusions include...
a) There is a fanning system
b) It increases and decreases according to both volume and the liveliness of the musical style being played
c) It seemed to be sufficient to keep the KN7000 from overheating
Rog
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Roger M

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#67152 - 06/10/08 05:03 PM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
Bill Norrie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 2275
Loc: Richmond,North Yorkshire, UK
NO! NO! a thousand times NO! That 'Hole' is the Bass Speaker port!! What you are feeling is the air being shifted by the cone of the Bass Speaker............
_________________________
Willum

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is Music.
Aldous Huxley

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#67153 - 06/11/08 02:39 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
RMepstead Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 1478
Loc: Wootton Bassett - Wiltshire - ...
Damn - back to the drawing board...!!!
Rog
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Roger M

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#67154 - 06/11/08 02:41 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
Fran D Offline
Member

Registered: 01/26/02
Posts: 918
Loc: Aiken, SC, USA
Very good Sherlock Bill.............the plot thickens!!

Fran in SC

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#67155 - 06/12/08 01:29 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
fredyfr Offline
Member

Registered: 12/15/07
Posts: 80
Loc: altea, spain
In a germanspeaking forum they are sure and certain there is a fan in the KN6000, as there was in the KN2000. Nobody is onehundred percent sure if yes or no there is one in the KN7000.

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#67156 - 06/12/08 04:09 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
Fran D Offline
Member

Registered: 01/26/02
Posts: 918
Loc: Aiken, SC, USA
Bernie,

I no longer have a business card for the gent in Florida that repaired my 7000 and is authorized repair on all boards. Send him a link to this thread and he may shed some light on this mystery.
Fran in SC

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#67157 - 06/12/08 06:04 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
Bob Hendershot Offline
Member

Registered: 12/02/99
Posts: 924
Loc: Johnson City, TN USA
Fran, I kept the email you sent to me. It's Rick Lange in Ft. Meyers FL. I'll send him an email with this link.

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#67158 - 06/12/08 08:03 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
Fran D Offline
Member

Registered: 01/26/02
Posts: 918
Loc: Aiken, SC, USA
Bob,

He is a great guy and will probably solve the heat and fan question.

Fran in SC

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#67159 - 06/13/08 12:55 PM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
Bob Hendershot Offline
Member

Registered: 12/02/99
Posts: 924
Loc: Johnson City, TN USA
Got a reply from Rick Lange today. I quote: "I have not heard about that problem of overheating." . . .

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#67160 - 06/14/08 02:18 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
Bernie9 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 3923
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
Like I said earlier, Rick mentioned to me that it was a little warm, but it likely would not cause a problem. That was more than a year ago, and it probably always got warm, but I never noticed.

Bernie
_________________________
pa4X 76 ,Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station

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#67161 - 06/14/08 08:53 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
fredyfr Offline
Member

Registered: 12/15/07
Posts: 80
Loc: altea, spain
Shall we thus forget the whole thing as the book states there is some warmth caused by the built-in power source but nothing to worry about???
Nevertheless, it would have been interesting to know if yes or no there is a fan in the KN7000.
Anyhow, the origin of this thread was the question "is prolongued blockchord playing harmful to the board" and the answer seems to be clearly NO.

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#67162 - 06/15/08 03:43 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
Bill Norrie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 2275
Loc: Richmond,North Yorkshire, UK
Hi Freddy,
I can see no reason why adding any of the Technichord options, will make the KN7000 generate significantly more heat.

However, playing the keyboard continuously at maximum volume, could contribute to greater heat output from the power supply components and the power amplifier modules, which drive the internal speakers. The extra power required to produce the increased current drive to the speakers, has got to come from somewhere. That 'somewhere' is the power supply and increased current demand on any power supply, normally generates more heat........
_________________________
Willum

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is Music.
Aldous Huxley

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#67163 - 06/27/08 11:11 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
jd5live Offline
Member

Registered: 05/16/06
Posts: 331
Loc: Bilston , West Midlands,Englan...
Hi Folks, having checked my service manual there is no reference to a cooling fan, the Fan Bags listed appear to be the owners pack bags,why Panasonic call them this is best known to them.
Regards John.

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#67164 - 06/28/08 11:45 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
D.Munson Offline
Member

Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 397
Loc: UK
Quote:
Originally posted by Bernie9:
Like I said earlier, Rick mentioned to me that it was a little warm, but it likely would not cause a problem. That was more than a year ago, and it probably always got warm, but I never noticed.

Bernie


I couldn't give a monkeys whether there's a fan or not so long as my KN7k keeps nice and real cool!! Which so far it has. Derek
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DFmunson

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#67165 - 06/29/08 12:19 AM Re: prolongued blockcord-playing KN7000
fredyfr Offline
Member

Registered: 12/15/07
Posts: 80
Loc: altea, spain
Hello Derek,
Just to say that I love your expression "give a monkeys'". I hadn't heared that for ages.
As to the warmth or even heath I still get it and sometimes plenty. Let's just hope it
will do that for a very long time still to
come and if possible, without any harm to
the board.
Regards
Fredy, alias peeanoplayer

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