Heather,
I just listened to your song 'A Night of Love' that is on your web site. It is very nice.
Perhaps you would like to do a tutorial on making such a song using Band in a Box, step by step. The reason that I am suggesting this, is that , if used properly, BIAB can be a terrific tool for creating new styles for keyboards and pianos that have the 'Midi/sequencer copy to Composer feature'.
I hope that others would also like this so that you would be compelled to teach us some new tricks.
Regards,
Walt

Hi Walt,
I realize your question wasn't actually directed at me ( so sorry for butting in).

Depending on what you were actually planning to do, you'd treat songs ( midifiles) created in Band in a Box differently ie if you were going to create a style using BIAB you'd record it one way.
If you were going to use it as a song that you saved as a midifile for playback in the kn7 sequencer, you'd record it entirely differently ie you could record a complete arrangement using BIAB styles plus record a melody, save it as a midifile, load it into your kn7 sequencer, adjust the instruments volumes etc. and you've got a sequence.
You could leave out recording the melody line in BIAB and just save the arrangement as a backing track ( midifile). In this scenario you'd still load the midifile into your kn7, adjust the volumes and change instruments etc and the sequencer could play the backing and you can play along live. ( music minus one)

If you wanted to create a kn7 style from a BIAB style , that's a different procedure.
You wouldn't want chord changes in your style except for your intro's and endings. The rest of the style parts should really be recorded in just the key of c.

I've got a few ideas floating round in my head, just need to type it up in a way hopefully makes sense to others.

best wishes
Rikki
p.s. do you have BIAB and want to know how to create styles from it?

Hi Rikki,

Yes. When I tried making styles (all key of C), they are 'dull'. It seems that BIAB only generates variations when it is asked to change key. Am I missing something?
Any help is appreciated.
Regards,
Walt

[This message has been edited by Walt Meyer (edited 11-01-2003).]

Hi Walt,
I tend to think the problem is that BIAB songs sound quite good because in PG's demo's they use a lot of complicated chords & a lot of chord changes.

I too found that if I only used the more simple chords like majs , min, 7ths etc the type of chords you get in the EZ Play type of music ( which is all I'm capable of playing on my kn7) the songs sounded a bit dull wheras if I used a Fake or Buskers Book with the more complicated chords and more frequent chord changes, the song sounded better.

I do get variations crop up even when based just on the c chord.
I just keep hitting the play button.
It may have something to do with the actual styles that you tried creating from.
Maybe the BIAB style you used didn't have a lot of variations within itself. If you click the style editor in BIAB you should see a grid with a number of boxes . The more boxes, the more variety within that style.

I'm doing the following with a simple orchestral waltz I'm working on.

I chose the chord c.
I created
bar 1 (a) to 9 bars 1to8 vari 1 bar 9 fill
bar 10(b) to 18 bars 10to17vari 3 bar 18 fill
bar 19(a) to 27 bars 19to26vari 2 bar 27 fill
bar 28(b) to 36 bars 28to35vari 4 bar 36 fill
bar 37(a) to 40 Intro 1 ( create a 4 bar
bar 41(b) to 44 Intro 2 chord progression
bar 45(a) to 48 Ending 1 suitable for key
bar 49(b) to 52 Ending 2 of c)
Change to CMinor for Minor Intro & Ending
bar 53(a) to 56 Intro 1 ( create a 4 bar
bar 57(b) to 60 Intro 2 chord progression
bar 61(a) to 64 Ending 1 suitable for key
bar 65(b) to 68 Ending 2 of cm)

for the variations ie bar 1 to 8, I didn't neccesarily use the whole 8 bars for my variation. I picked the 4 bars that sounded the best, ie it could have been 1 to 4 or 2 to 6 etc

Also I used BIAB (a) for vari 1 & 2

(b) for vari 3 & 4

Unfortunately I don't think these styles will ever sound as good as our kn7 ones do but, don't forget we can mix n' match parts of our internal kn7 styles with these BIAB styles by using
Pattern Copy on Page 2 of composer

ie replace BIAB composer style part drum 1 with drum 1 from one of the internal styles.
Or make a BIAB composer style sound fuller by adding additional parts like a string part from one of the internal styles.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Walt Meyer:
[B]Hi Rikki,

When I tried making styles (all key of C), they are 'dull'. It seems that BIAB only generates variations when it is asked to change key.

Hi Rikki,
Thanks for the come-back. I have Version 11 of BIAB.
I guess that I will just have to spend more time with the program (something that I don't have just at this time).
Thanks for the run-down on the Waltz that you are working on and for the other tips.
Maybe you would like to send me a copy of the Orchestral Waltz style when you get it done and I'll give you an opinion.
Cheers,
Walt

Hi Walt and Rikki,

Sorry I don't get on much over the weekends. Being a programmer I sit in front on the Computer too much as it is.

Anyway with BIAB styles there are a couple of things you can do to get style variations the most important being is to pick a style that has a lot of variation to start with. As you know first there are the A and B style variations but each of these can has several variations depending on how complicated the style was put together.

To know this you load the style then use the style editor to look at the A and B parts for each instrument. The more patterns that were recorded the more variation BIAB will produce when the song is "compiled". For example on the Piano A varaition one pattern could be a Staccato and another an Arpeggio.

There are pattern setting for lengths of notes as well. Each pattern has a weight setting from 1 to 9 where 1 is the least often and 9 the most often.

In most cases these will all be set to 5 so in effect when you play the song each pattern has an equal chance of being selected for any given note. By raising the weight on a pattern to 9 you increase the chance that the pattern will be used and lowering the number to 1 decreases the chance.

The same is true for drums and fill-ins.

If you don't like a pattern you can record your own or add patterns. (Thats were I have a problem.)

So in this example, you could create a variation by setting Staccato to 9 and Arpeggio to 1 (Zero might turn it off I don't remember if it accepts 0) in the BAIB A variation. Save the style and create 8 bars of C and save it to midi. Use that to create your first variation in KN/PR. Then reverse the settings and do it again. You could also create 8 bars of C and put Ca at the 4th and 8th bars which would put a fill in at bars 4 and 8.

Then do the same for the BIAB variation B.

The problem comes in finding styles that are created with that much detail. Many of the newer styles are as are the Norton Add-on Styles.

I'll do separate reply for creating a song.

Regards,
Heather

Hi Walt,

Thank you for you kind compliment.

A step by step on creating a song would be difficult because I use different ways.

One is to start as Rikki did, use the Melodyist to create a song. BIAB can create two types of songs. AABA and ABCA. The first means 2 rounds of the same main melody then a chorus then a repeat of the main melody. The second is the main melody once then raised to a different set of chords.

What I'll do is create the type of song I want then delete the melody before I listen to it the first time. That way when I hear the cords I can create my own melody without the influence of the one BIAB created. Then I record my own melody and tweak the chords.

Usually I'll save the original just in case I don't come up with anything. In this case I may use the basic melody but record over pieces that don't sound right or have enough happening.

BIAB also allows you to "Jazz Up" a song so you can put in the basic chords as in the EZ Play music then select "Jazz Up" and it will fill in chords or change some to 7th so on.

I also will take the main chord and add variation for example if there are 4 bars of C I might try C13 at the second bar or C9 or C6/G just to see how they sound in the song. The sad part is that while I may not even know how to play a C13 I can write a song that uses it.

Another way I write is the usually way where I just sit at the piano and start to play. If I here something I like I write it down then go to BIAB and start entering the chords. When I'm done I record the melody using either BIAB or Power Tracks.

I hope this gives you some things to play with. It's great fun to do when I have a bunch of time which is not often enough.

BIAB is a great tool but even with it connected to the KN ro PR it does not have the same quality of styles as the KN/PRs.

One of my favorites on our Website is "Sunday Afternoon" which is when I wrote it.

Best Wishes,
Heather

Hi Heather,
I must admit I haven't really used BIAB much recently. Only use it on the odd occasion when I want to fiddle round with style creation on the kn7.

Good tip on changing the weights of the BIAB patterns. I might check that out and see what happens.

best wishes
Rikki


[QUOTE]Originally posted by shcox:
[B]Hi Walt and Rikki,

There are pattern setting for lengths of notes as well. Each pattern has a weight setting from 1 to 9 where 1 is the least often and 9 the most often.

In most cases these will all be set to 5 so in effect when you play the song each pattern has an equal chance of being selected for any given note. By raising the weight on a pattern to 9 you increase the chance that the pattern will be used and lowering the number to 1 decreases the chance.

Regards,
Heather

Hi Walt,
BIAB is an interesting program, but I don't really use it much either, except for fiddling round with style creation for the kn7. I really don't have the spare time either to check BIAB thoroughly.

As for the waltz, it's only a really simple one. ( I was mainly trying to give you ideas to try)
The waltz only consists of bass, piano arpeggio, strings & french horns ( no drums) so probably not terribly exciting to most.
I decided to try & create it for the song "Always" (Irving Berlin).

I'm a Richard Clayderman fan ( nutter in fact , I've got most of his albums
( dozens) , much to hubby's dismay)
Anyway, I'm really fond of piano arpeggio's. I wasn't too good at playing left hand arpeggio's on my piano, so now I cheat and create the odd arpeggio style. Gives me a false sense of actually being able to play
( haahaa).

If you'd still like a copy when I finish, let me know. I personally like simple styles, but bear in mind, there's probably a lot more that could be done with it by incorporating phrases ( like drums) or substituting strings from the kn7.

best wishes
Rikki