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#57492 - 09/10/04 11:58 AM Stops
Bazz Woods Offline
Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 178
Loc: British Isles
Hi All

Any ideas on creating a stop pattern without going into composer
Cheers Bazz

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#57493 - 09/11/04 08:18 PM Re: Stops
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
HiBazz,
can you elaborate a bit more.

best wishes
Rikki
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#57494 - 09/12/04 03:47 AM Re: Stops
Bazz Woods Offline
Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 178
Loc: British Isles
Rick,

What I mean is, most songs have a break in them somewhere but every rhythm in my KN2600 and variations just continue thru the bar,
if you hit the stop key naturally it stops.
But it sounds like someones pulled the plug out.I hoped maybe someone had discovered a way to manually do it,other wise I will have to use composer to create a stop fill but that would be in every rhythm I use.

Hope this isnt confusing

Cheers Bazz

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#57495 - 09/12/04 12:53 PM Re: Stops
Bill Norrie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 2330
Loc: North Yorkshire UK
Hi Bazz, If I understand correctly what you wish to do, it's fairly easy
While you are playing, hit the 'Synchro' button to light the LED above it. Then when you wish to make a short 'Stop', hit the 'Start/Stop' button, the rhythm will stop and will auto start when you next play a chord with your left hand. You can therefore make the break as long or as short as you wish
I have been using this method for some time and it is very effective.

------------------
Willum
_________________________
Willum

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is Music.
Aldous Huxley
( especially when the music is played on a KN7000....)

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#57496 - 09/13/04 03:10 PM Re: Stops
Merrill Ainsworth Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 36
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Rikki, Buzz and Bill---

Thanks for the question and great answer!

I too have needed this capability, and completely overlooked the obvious, until Bill pointed it out.

Friends in need!

Merrill

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#57497 - 09/13/04 05:47 PM Re: Stops
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Merrill,
whenever someone has a problem, it's worth asking the question, someone may just have the answer for you ( haahaa).

Good that Bill was able to help you too.

best wishes
Rikki
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#57498 - 09/13/04 07:38 PM Re: Stops
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
What Bill suggested will obviously work, but wouldn't it be nice (and easier?) if there was a style (or even a pad) that did this? Stop time is a common pattern often used in jazz or blues, so it's kind of surprising to me that there is no style available that has this at least as a variation.... as I am also surprised that there is no jazz style with a 'double time' variation... ...
t.
_________________________
t. cool

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#57499 - 09/13/04 09:19 PM Re: Stops
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Tony,
showing my ignorance here, I don't think i quite understand what a "stop time" pattern is/or should be, and how stop time is actually used.
The 4 variation composers automatically keep looping ( so could they work? ), not sure whether the fill 1 & 2 composers could be used.
The pads would only give you 2 instruments and normally they're played in sync with one of the variations.

Just wondering if there are any styles with a stop time pattern that I could try.

best wishes
Rikki
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#57500 - 09/14/04 06:05 AM Re: Stops
Bill Norrie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 2330
Loc: North Yorkshire UK
Hi Rikki - I'll email you an example of a 'Stop Time' or 'Stop Chorus' as it's sometimes called I assume your email address has not changed........

------------------
Willum
_________________________
Willum

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is Music.
Aldous Huxley
( especially when the music is played on a KN7000....)

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#57501 - 09/14/04 06:18 AM Re: Stops
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Rikki ... "Stop time", as I learned the phrase, is used at some point in a tune to feature on of the instruments, or vocal ... In the most simple style, all of the instrumentalists would hit the appropriate chord on the 1 beat of the measure and then stop while the soloist played for the rest of the measure ... this would be repeated for as many measures as desired .... in a I- IV- I- V- I- blues tune (depending upon the chord pattern) it is often played for the I chord and the soloist plays the "fill" part until the IV chord, when the whole group plays again ...
Another simple example might be the bridge to "Route 66" where the whole group would hit the chord on the lyrics in caps, while the vocalist would sing the remaining lyrics with no accompaniment....
"you can GO to st. louis, JOPlin missouri, OKlahoma city is mighty pretty ... etc.
I don't know if that clears it up any for you, it's kind of difficult for me to explain verbally ... Perhaps some of the more accomplished musicians can help with an explanation ...
t.
_________________________
t. cool

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#57502 - 09/14/04 06:20 AM Re: Stops
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Well, I see our pal Bill has gone one better on me while I was 'pecking' away at my response ... ...

Bill ... what kind of example did you e-mail ... something verbal, printed, ??? ...
thnx,
t.
_________________________
t. cool

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#57503 - 09/14/04 07:15 AM Re: Stops
etwo4788 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 518
Loc: S.E. New Mexico USA
This "stop" thing is something I learned while jamming with a band member in Omaha, NE....I have no claim on being a "musician" ....just a devotee...a passionate one!

Anyway.....yes,it is effective to insert no sound for a few beats.....as Bill describes. I found that my KN7K will begin again (after the pause)....always on the "downbeat".....

If there is a way to start the rhythm again on a 2, 3, or 4th beat.....please post the method?????

ELIZABETH....

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#57504 - 09/14/04 01:06 PM Re: Stops
Bill Norrie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 2330
Loc: North Yorkshire UK
Hi Tony - check your mailbox

------------------
Willum
_________________________
Willum

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is Music.
Aldous Huxley
( especially when the music is played on a KN7000....)

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#57505 - 09/14/04 04:06 PM Re: Stops
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Everyone,
thank you for the explanations, and Bill thank you for the file ( haven't had a chance to try it yet).

Late last night , I actually ended up checking my "Jammer " software to see if it had any "stop" rythms. It had a couple in fast jazz, boogie woogie etc ( just the type of rythms you mentioned Tony)
All the instruments appear to stop on the 1st beat, but in the jammer style, a drum beat keeps the rythm going.

Very effective actually. One learns something new everyday.

Bill, I think you mentioned you created the rythm as one of the variations, I would imagine that would be the only way it could be done. Fills or pads wouldn't really work?

thanks everyone

best wishes
rikki
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#57506 - 09/14/04 04:16 PM Re: Stops
Bud Whipple Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 480
Loc: The Plantation, Leesburg, Flor...
Some styles are constructed with silent measures, stop measures, breaks, or whatever you want to call them, but they are hard to find. I've probably come across a dozen styles out of a few thousand conversions, but it's also something you can make up yourself. Just pick the style you need for your particular song and go into the composer. Pick the variation you want for the stops, and use step record for each instrument to delete the notes for the measures that you want silent. With a little tweaking, you can have the sound you want with only a few minutes work. Save it to disk/sd card and it's ready to use whenever you want. Now I know that using the composer wasn't what was wanted originally, but it's fast, and reliable. It works every time you call it up and you won't have to worry about the beat being off.

[This message has been edited by Bud Whipple (edited 09-14-2004).]

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#57507 - 09/14/04 07:02 PM Re: Stops
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Norrie:
Hi Tony - check your mailbox



thnx, Bill I'll give it a listen ...
t.
_________________________
t. cool

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#57508 - 09/15/04 04:10 AM Re: Stops
Bill Norrie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 2330
Loc: North Yorkshire UK
Hi Rikki,
The 'Stop Time' I created was in Variation 2 of a Jazz style and was edited just as Bud explained. However, I see no reason why it could not be created as a Fill-In. Most, if not all of the KN7000 fill-ins, are just one measure long but they can be edited to be any length, up to 16 Bars
Stop Time measures are generally 4 bars long.

------------------
Willum
_________________________
Willum

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is Music.
Aldous Huxley
( especially when the music is played on a KN7000....)

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#57509 - 09/15/04 02:57 PM Re: Stops
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Thanks Bill & Bud
on the explanation on creation of stop time patterns.

best wishes
Rikki
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#57510 - 09/15/04 04:11 PM Re: Stops
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Bill ... your 'stop time' pattern was EXCELLENT !!! .... how do I get it to work on the kn6?!?!?
I hate to say it, but I've never even used the 'composer' feature on the kn6
Does it work the same as described above? ... also, could this be saved as a pad???
thnx agn,
t.
_________________________
t. cool

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#57511 - 09/15/04 04:33 PM Re: Stops
Bill Norrie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 2330
Loc: North Yorkshire UK
Hi Tony, You should be able to produce a 'Stop Pattern' on the KN6xxx just as described by Bud. You really should 'Get into' the Composer - you can have some great fun editing styles and it ain't difficult. (Project for the weekend???)
Just copy a KN6xxx style into one of the Composer memories and then edit one of the variations. I just cleared the entire Variation 2 and then entered a single Bass Drum hit, single Snare Drum hit and single Open Hi-Hat in the Drum 1 track and Acoustic Bass note C1, in the Bass track. All entries were on the first beat of each of the four bars.
I don't know if the pattern could be entered into a Performance Pad - I've not tried it - might be worthwhile investigating.....

------------------
Willum
_________________________
Willum

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is Music.
Aldous Huxley
( especially when the music is played on a KN7000....)

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#57512 - 09/15/04 06:59 PM Re: Stops
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Bill & Tony,
just had a chance to try Bill's "stop" variation. Brilliant.

I just created a pad from it, which is quite an easy process, but it's a bit messy to use in realtime playing.

I followed Bill's earlier instructions on using the sync button to create a "stop".

Having to hit the stop button and the pad button at the same time ie your variation stop's and the pad starts playing.
Normally the pads are used to play in sync with one of the variations.
I tend to think using one of the variations or one of the fills is easier.

best wishes
Rikki



[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 09-15-2004).]
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#57513 - 09/16/04 06:20 AM Re: Stops
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Norrie:
Hi Tony, ....You really should 'Get into' the Composer - you can have some great fun editing styles and it ain't difficult. (Project for the weekend???)...


Bill ... One of the unfortunate things about still having a full time day job is that there are sooooo many things to tend to on the weekends.... This weekend will be fun, however, as we are heading south from Rhode Island to NY for the 4th birthday of one on our grandaughters... Also, our son was given to tickets to the Yankees - Red Sox game at Yankee Stadium on Saturday ... having been born and spending most of my life in NYC, there is no doubt who I'll be rooting for ...
But I will get into the composer one of these days ...
many thanks again,
t.
_________________________
t. cool

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#57514 - 09/17/04 11:38 AM Re: Stops
Bazz Woods Offline
Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 178
Loc: British Isles
Many Thanks to all for your suggestion,
I tried the synchro/break system but unless
Im doing it wrong it still sounds unnatural.
If when pressed it played the first beat in the next bar then stopped that would be the answer.As I said in my initial post the composer is the answer but to have to do it for every rhythm I use is not the answer as on the Kn2600 there are only memory banks A-B-C,
and I would like not to have to load of the SD card everyother song.
I use the KN2600 mostly for 60,s 70,s type music .I also have to back singers when they want to sing ,it could be Little Old Wine Drinker,Ruby,Imagine,New York,etc all needing a stop somewhere.
Dont suppose the KN7000 has one.
Once again great response

Bazz

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#57515 - 09/17/04 01:07 PM Re: Stops
John North Offline
Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 449
Loc: Alfreton, Derbyshire, England
Hi Bazz
Another little trick you could try is to use the swell pedal. Just rock your foot pedal back to the fully closed (off) position which will stop the sound completely. Press the pedal down when you want the rhythm to be heard again. With a little practice it can be quite effective.
John

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#57516 - 09/17/04 03:50 PM Re: Stops
Bazz Woods Offline
Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 178
Loc: British Isles
John
Thanks for that tip,but I would need to keep an eye on the tempo led to make sure when I swell the volume I am at the start of the bar

Bazz

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#57517 - 09/17/04 04:00 PM Re: Stops
Bill Norrie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 2330
Loc: North Yorkshire UK
Quote "If when pressed it played the first beat in the next bar then stopped that would be the answer."
Bazz, You can do just that You can stop the style playing on any beat of the bar by just pressing the 'Start/Stop' button at the right time........ If you press immediately after the First beat has played, then the rhythm will stop after the First beat - the style then resets to start on Beat 1 of the bar, next time you play a chord or note below the split point.
It's best to use your left hand for pressing the Stop button, that way, you don't get a left hand chord 'hanging' over the break.

------------------
Willum
_________________________
Willum

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is Music.
Aldous Huxley
( especially when the music is played on a KN7000....)

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#57518 - 09/18/04 06:42 AM Re: Stops
Bazz Woods Offline
Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 178
Loc: British Isles
Aaahhh Bill

Never thought of that one,the hanging chord
really got to me,now if only we could solve the abrupt stop,but then you cant have everything.

Cheers and thanks
Barry

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#57519 - 09/18/04 10:31 AM Re: Stops
Douglas Dean Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/02
Posts: 554
Loc: Prospect Heights IL USA
I know in my car I can slow down and come to a stop. I can slam on the brakes, skid for a short distance with quite a squeal and stop. I can also stop my car and start it. Once in a while I will let my car coast slowly up to a stop sign and stop close to it. Unlike my car when going everything goes. When it stops, everything stops including me. With my keyboard I stop but it can keep going. I can stop some parts of it while others are still going. I can go with it or not with what ever part of it is going or stopped.

What have you got in mind Barry when you say an abrupt stop. Slow down a bit before stopping? Kind of slow down a tad and then speed up when approaching a stop. Over here in Chicago land that approach to stopping will get you a ticket sometimes. It is frowned upon.

With my KN keyboard I can slow down before I stop completely. As an abrupt stop can be accomplished by playing with one hand while slowly turning that round tempo knob just to the right of the screen. With two hands playing it takes a bit more of finesse. There is an indentation in that round knob for that very purpose. The end of the nose fits very nicely into it for turning it with the head motion. A little tricky at first to get the motion smooth of course.

I might suggest one thing however if you bare with me. If you have a runny nose with a cold and then sneeze while performing this function it could become something that is not very pretty. Did you ever try to clean up a broken uncooked egg on your keys or board? It seems to run away from you as you try to clean it up. It slithers in the seams and cracks of the board. However snot has a creamy foam substance also because of the pressure behind a sneeze homogenizing the stuff. I find just sucking up the stuff with the mouth before exerting any kind of cleaning pressure to it can save a great deal of time and frustration.

I have been in this keyboard game for many years and know the answers to most of the questions you younger players come across. You might call old Gramps a harbinger of knowledge and tricks of the trade. Just ask Bill or John or any of the old timers like Larry and they will conform it.

Grandpa Doug

Ask Ruthie and you will get some kind of an answer also.
_________________________
Grampa Doug

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#57520 - 09/18/04 10:52 AM Re: Stops
Bill Norrie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 2330
Loc: North Yorkshire UK
Bazz - check your email........

------------------
Willum
_________________________
Willum

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is Music.
Aldous Huxley
( especially when the music is played on a KN7000....)

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