Hi All

I know that the Quantize function can correct the timing of recorded sequences. I just don't know how to use that function.

Most of the time I leave the Strength and Window at 100 % , because quite frankly the manual tells me that is the convienient setting.

I don't know what the "Value" setting should be, so I just quess.

What tracks should I be quantizing ?(I select All...another quess)

Should I select measure 1... on to the end ?( I do, you quessed it...another quess)

After Quantizing using the aboved "quessed" method , I don't see much of a difference, if any at all. Obviously, I need some advise... thus the reason for my post...to ask the friendlly Tech'ers here at the "Zone" for a tip or 2 on "Quantize"

Thanks,
Larry Hawk

Hi Larry,
I don't know whether you probably should use it at all if your recordings are mainly done in Easy Record.

I imagine quantize would mainly be used if you decided to record a song in a multitrack format ie you record all the tracks in realtime drums , bass , piano , strings etc ( in short , you're not using the inbuilt styles, but creating your song from scratch)
You'd possibly then need to quantize those tracks, so that the timing is right and they all blend in together.

You could possibly use quantize on your melody tracks ( when using easy record) but it may make your melody sound mechanical, because the timing would be too perfect and you may take away that human feel.

If you do want to quantize, make sure that you ick the correct value ie if the shortest note in your track is a 16th note, make sure you use the 16th note value because if you set it to a 1/4 note, all the notes in your track would move to the closest 1/4 note , so you'd end up with a bunched up set of notes which would totally ruin your track.

The strength if you set it to 100% means that it moves to the exact beat. Wheras if you set it to 50%, it moves it only halfway between your original version and the quantized version. ( I'm probably not making much sense, just find it a bit hard to explain.

As for the Window % setting, haven't got a clue, but if you're still interested in quantizing, I'll try using the window %setting and then run it through one of my pc sequencers which has a list editor. It will show me exactly what the setting does.

First measure is the measure you want to start quantizing from last measure where you want the quantizing to end. ie your song is 20 measures and you want to quantize the whole 20 measures of a track . Start measure 1 End Measure 20. If just say you only messed up measures 5 & 6 and they need quantizing then start measure 5 end meaure 6.

Please anyone if I've got something wrong, please free to correct me, as it's only my own interpretation on quantizing.

best wishes
Rikki

Hi Larry,

I use quantizing quite frequently when I "real time record" some tracks on my sequences. As for the note value, its usually an educated guess..A "general" rule of thumb for me is to take the note with the shortest lenghth in that particular track and quanitize the parts that are a little "off"! Be careful to save your work first though because what I have found over the years is that once you quanitize for a particular note value, the keyboard did not always allow you to choose another value (re-quantize if you will) As far as note strength, I'm new to the KN 7000 game as i recently upgrade form the kn 5000..(My first gig with it is actually this weekend at a comfort inn in Bethlehem)....I have not experimented with this feature yet but 100% sounds good to me (why would you want to fix something only 50%?)...Hope this helps.....Mike

basically if you hard quantise 100% you get the equivalent of note step input, and may feel the end result gets somewhat robotic. The strength and window settings allow a compromise whereby the occasional bad timing fluff can be pulled back to the beat, but without affecting the feel, syncopation, or deliberate off the beat riffs of the rest of the playing.

Hi Larry,

I very seldom use quantize on sequences that I want to just play. It usually makes them sound too mechanical in playback.

I use the quantise feature when I want to print out a part or parts. Quantizing then eliminates a lot of extra tied notes on the print out. This makes the print out much more simple to read and play.

Larry

Larry!

I'm intrigued!!! How on earth do you go about PRINTING music from a recorded song??? All information would be great!

Ted

any computer sequencer worth it's salt will convert a midi track into a score and print it out nowadays. There are many ways to do it, for lead sheet just save the melody as a midi, type in the chords and print - you could make a full midi on the KN and then print a multi instrument 8 or 16 stave arrangement, rather quicker I find is just to play the KN sequencer into the computer and then print a multi stave arrangement.

It's even been known to then put the score in the KN screen

Alec,
Is there any way to print a single note *lead sheet* from the melody track if it was recorded using technichord before being converted to midi?
Regards,
Walt

no really easy way, I'm afraid, without erasing the notes afterwards because you've used technichord set to conductor. Another reason I always recommend Part 4 for technichord, even if you don't want a third melody voice, is the harmony notes record there and leave Right 1 and Right 2 with clean melody and counter melody lines.

Hi Ted,
this comany has a demo you can dowload for free and try before you buy.
http://www.notation.com/studymusic.htm

best wishes
Rikki
p.s. you have to convert your kn sequence into a midifile first using the apc to smf function ( sequencer section of your kn7) Don't forget to save it as a kn sequence, before you convert it to midifile, converting can't be undone..

[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 10-10-2003).]

Rikki!

Many thanks for the info and link. I will be checking it out pronto, and it may be just what I was looking for! Happy keyboarding!!!!

Best personal regards,

Ted

Can a "lead sheet" be printed if recorded without using technichord and then saving the melody line as a MIDI file?????

sure, that's the easiest way as long as you note down or know the chords.
Saving your easy recording as midi will not save the accompaniment anyway, but you aren't interested in that, just the melody line for lead sheet. I would quantise hard and don't use the pitchbend or modulation wheels or volume pedal.

Load the midi into your computer sequencer program and select channel 1, which R1 should have been on. Most programs have a chord input function which consists of just typing C, Am, Dm7 etc and, for example using the space bar to jump to the next measure point requiring a chord change. You can even play the original recording in the 7k at the same time at a very slow tempo and write the chords in the program as they come up in the screen, complete with the correct measure numbers.

When finished save, then look at the print preview page and see how it pans out. You can usually play around with the sizes of how many measures you want across the stave, and whether you fit it all on one A4 page or go for big fonts etc and spread it across two or more pages.

Hi Ted,
The answer is yes.
You can print out the melody as a lead sheet even if technichord is used, PROVIDING, you put your desired technichord voice in part four and then select part four instead of Conductor, Right 1, Right 2, or Left.
Using part four for the techichord voice has other advantages, as pointed out some time ago by Alec, in that you now have complete control over the techichord voice such as volume level, and all of the other sound editing features of the keyboard. All independant of the main melody voices.
This opens up a whole new realm of sound possibilities such as a SOP Saxaphone playing duet with Marimba, ETC. Of course you can have a different voice and voice edit for each panel memory position as they are all saved in panel memory. This gives almost unlimited tonal possibilities.
Once you start playing around with this feature, I think that you will use it all of the time.
I have started doing this as a matter of routine even if I just want to use the R1 or
R2 voice for technichord because it gives such versatility and can be edited at any time at a later date.
Regards,
Walt

[This message has been edited by Walt Meyer (edited 10-13-2003).]

Can anyone recommend a computer sequencer program to perform the above functions ? (Free would be nice)

For midi print purposes, all we need to quantise is Track 1, correct ? And what did technicsplayer mean by "I would quantise hard" ?

Larry Hawk

Hi Larry,
check out the midi notate program ( the link is on my reply to Ted) unfortunately it's not free, but at least you can try before deciding whether or not it's worth purchasing.

It's not actually a sequencer, it's main function is printing music from midifiles.

You may find free sequencers on the net( just do a search in google), but a lot of the time , cheap sequencers don't have great scoring facilities or no score at all.

best wishes
Rikki

Hi Larry, as an alternative to the midi notate look at http://proaudiomusic.com/PG%20music/power_tracks.htm

the notation package will not be as comprehensive as midi notate but ok for lead sheets, but it can do much more including digital audio and cd burning. A lot of bang for 25 bucks, download the demo from pgmusic.com and try it out.

yes, quantise your melody track, usually R1. Hard quantise just means 100%, ie set your quantise value to the shortest note in the tune consumerate with keeping any passing notes or riffs you may want in the score. As well as not using controllers you could switch off after touch in menu/overall touch sensitivity. This will give score conversion requiring the minimum editing to look good on the page.

Wow Alec ,
thank you for the link. Can't beleive some of the prices of the software. Pg Music themselves appears to be far more expensive than this site for the same product ( and they're the developers).
I'm pretty sure I know where I'll be getting my next upgrade from, for my Band in a Box & Power Tracks sequencer.

I noticed they also appear to have the prior version Power Tracks Pro Audio Vers.7 on the site @ $14-99. Wondering if Vers 7 & 8 would be that much different if it was only going to be used for printing?


best wishes
Rikki

Actually, they may have demo's for both versions, didn't think to look.

noooo... don't buy direct from pg you're welcome, Rikki.

I don't really use power tracks much nowadays but tend to have a copy handy since used it years ago and like the big piano display for quick tune learning.
8 does have enhanced notation with the ability to do multiple staves, not necessary for lead sheet, but a good feature for future work for the Few Dollars More...cue Clint theme with wah wah guitar! The main thing worth having in 8 is the chord calculation from midi files.

Hi,
I also would like to print a leadsheat fromt my easyrecord songs. Read the comment from technisplayer

I try to do this with the apc to smf convert item.
But the next page give me track1->r1->°->apc/pad with apc/pad default is off.
When I want to convert track1 R1 (melody) I have to make changes in the apc/pad colum. But there I only can chose between drum or accomp1 etc. but not melody. And you had to do this otherwise the button with convert on it doesn't work.

So do I something wrong or is there a differnt way for making a miditrack from the melody played in R1 with easyrecord.

rgds.
Willem

[This message has been edited by waterschip (edited 10-16-2003).]

Hi Willem,
just forget about apc to smf convert for the melody. If your goal is a lead sheet just with melody and chords, you do not need the auto accompaniment in the midi file so ignore apc to smf convert. Apc to smf is only needed if you want to score the entire arrangement with up to 14 staves for each part; [melody, counter melody,] bass, drums, piano, guitar, strings, etc etc !

Just save your easy record as a gm midi, panel header on, in the normal save to SD or floppy procedure so it will load into your computer sequencer, remembering the advice on controllers and quantise - this will give the cleanest score requiring the minimum editing. You will have no accompaniment playing, but that does not matter to get the melody score on channel 1. Then type in the chords quickly using the trick described if you can't remember them all.
Lead sheet complete

Hi Everyone

So if I understand this correctly, there are programs for the computer that will allow the insertions of chords, along with the melody, that we can print out in sheet music format. It has to be a midi, and only Track 1 is needed. How are chords inserted quickly, using a trick, as Alex described?

I never intended for this Post to go in this direction. However, I'm glad it did.

I find this subject fasinating. I never knew we could print sheet music from a midi.( Did you ?)

Now I'll have to decide what software is best suited for this particular purpose.

Thank You All !
Larry Hawk

How does pro audio 8 or band in a box compare with cakewalk home studio 2004? Specifically, the real audio quality when recoreded and played back with midi/technics files on the KN7000? I noticed that the sofware that came with the drivers for audio recording isn't very good

as simple as that, Larry. Play the song very slowly, see where the chords are, type them in the computer at the same time. Get's round having to do a complicated apc to smf convert and having to pay for a program that calculates chords from a midi file, although that can be useful in other ways. But it is by far the quickest way for simple lead sheet.
cheers.

Home studio is superior to Powertracks for both more advanced midi and audio multi-tracking, as it should be for the price difference, but also slightly more difficult to learn I would say. For the type of tasks discussed in this thread it is overkill unless you wish to use the more advanced features. Powertracks 8 is fine for stereo digital recording from the 7k and now supports DirectX real time effects for the final mix.

The audio quality with any of these programs will be no different to the audio quality of the software recorder supplied with the 7k. You just have many more features to manipulate the recorded audio, e.g. normalisation, cleaning up start and stop points, creating total silence between tracks or adding extra effects from the programs, so you pay for the extra functionality not sound quality. If you are happy with the built in effects of the 7k, you will hear no audio quality difference through usb recording to the supplied audio recorder, to powertracks, or to cakewalk, cubase or anything else.

Hi Technicsplayer,

thank you for the information I give it a try this weekend.

nice weekend to everybody and o lot of fun with your board althoug the weather is quit nice now for the time of the year.

rgds.
Willem

This whole long thread blows my mind and all the info included is overwhelming. I guess I'm just dense or something, but I am lost in all the comments and suggestions. Now maybe someone with a better brain than mine (and that is probably most of you!) can pull all this information together and condense it, and just list the simple steps, one by one, needed to print a lead sheet with chord names, and whether another program is needed other than the midi save file from the keyboard! If this sounds like a really stupid request from a true "dummy", so be it, but maybe someone else here is as confused as I am! Thanks for bearing with me!

Ted

[QUOTE]Originally posted by larry gosmeyer:
[B]Hi Larry,

I very seldom use quantize on sequences that I want to just play. It usually makes them sound too mechanical in playback.

I've been on vacation, so let me catch up. This post has gone from Quantizing to how to print a melody.

IMHO, mechanical playback says it all. It is better to lose the perfection and keep the human part.

As a pro guitar player, when I Played rhythem guitar, If the song was an up-beat, my chords/Guitar was just ahead of the beat. When it was a slow ballad, I was just a little bit late. When we played 5 foot 2, I played right on the beat. ha ha ha--You could not measure the before or after, it was a feeling. I could make a song more exciting without picking up the beat, or play a beautiful ballad, and make you feel the anticipation. With quantizing you lose all of that.

I have taken what I consider a good midi file, gone into step record mode for the bass and drums, and have found they are not always on the beat. They are off with intent.

Quantizing on a drum roll, or a strong cow bell for the Cha Cha beat is great, it does have it's use, but never to lose the FEEL of the song.

IMHO, John C.

that's exactly what strength and window settings are for, Bruno. All the feel of your off the beat playing stays untouched and you quantise only those errors that are so far off the beat they stand out obviously as an error, but not necessarily exactly back to the beat, only closer than originally, as described in my first answer, the feel then is preserved even for the few quantised notes.

The subject then changed to score printing, and the hard quantise is only to facilitate a clean music print out. If you did not hard quantise and cut out the controllers on the score conversion, the print out would be all but useless with tied 64th notes all over the place etc.