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#509525 - 01/25/24 04:27 PM Ketron Audya 5 output assign issues
matt07ie Offline
Member

Registered: 04/28/12
Posts: 77
Loc: IRELAND
I'm hoping to put this right as a soon as possible, maybe you can help, to explain my set up, I wanted to have my drums seperate to chords backing, so I connected up 1 mono cable to Left/mono for chords backing and 1 mono cable to Aux 1 for drums, on performance I noticed drums only on one side of house speakers and even chords backing was lacking on one side,
I said to myself am I hearing things, so I got a second ear to listen and I was right drums was basically all to one side and I said ok I'll connect up another mono cable to Aux 2 and back to a channel on the desk and straight away drums were heard evenly both sides of house speakers left and right, now for the chords section I connected another mono cable to the right and I noticed a volume drop in this socket, the right socket seems to be lower in volume level, an I doing something wrong here and in regards to getting chords level even on both sides in volume balanced evenly what is the correct procedure,or is there a fault with the right input of the Audya 5 keyboard, has anyone come accros this issue, you would think it's only 2 cables needed 1 for drums Aux 1 and 1 for chords into the Left/mono input, help much appreciated 🤔
for

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#509528 - 01/26/24 09:24 AM Re: Ketron Audya 5 output assign issues [Re: matt07ie]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14208
Loc: NW Florida
Arrangers’ extra outputs are all without effects, and drum kits are pre-panned in stereo. Some arrangers might allow you to edit the kit to pan all sounds to one side, but you’ll have to edit ALL your registrations to do this. And the reverb return isn’t (afaik) ever pannable, so reverb from sounds panned into one channel will still come out of both main outputs.

I’m a little confused… what’s the advantage to mixing the Parts externally rather than internally?

All in all, modern keyboards aren’t designed well for separating parts from each other when the effects and inserts are hardwired to the main outputs…
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#509534 - 01/28/24 07:04 PM Re: Ketron Audya 5 output assign issues [Re: matt07ie]
matt07ie Offline
Member

Registered: 04/28/12
Posts: 77
Loc: IRELAND
Thank you so much for getting in touch,and thank you very much indeed for explation on the output assign on arrangers, what was unknown to me was while the Audya 5 was connected to my Audio interface at home, wheni recorded my last song I forgot I had the balance panned more to the right, an oversight on my part here, once I panned to center on my Scarlett interface 2i4 all was fine, but to answer your question in relation to why I wand control over the drums, drums as a whole through the pa also that I can EQ on the mixing desk, a channel for the drums and a channel for the chords and bass, yes your right with regards to internal volume, so now basically over the last few days I went into my view window and turned all levels to max at 63, and brought all faders up full, I have yet to put it through the pa system later today, my thinking is if all is up on the keyboard, my total control will be just the faders on the mixing desk, in your professional opinion do you think I'm off my head doing it this way,
reason being I simply do not know what's the correct levels to have my drums at internally some sayeave them up at 63 for midi drums anyway and bass, but then the audio kits are a complete different setting, it's beginning to get very confusing to get a great balance on a live stage,
Sorry for going on here, but I sincerely thank you once again for replying, I'll eventually get it right..

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#509541 - 02/01/24 07:55 AM Re: Ketron Audya 5 output assign issues [Re: matt07ie]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14208
Loc: NW Florida
The thing is, although I’m no Ketron expert, but most arrangers these days have some form of EQ per Part in the arranger itself. So separating the Part out through individual outputs may not be necessary, simply add the EQ internally…

You might also take a good listen to your PA playing a commercial CD of your preferred music with the channel set flat. Does it sound good, well balanced, not tubby or shrill? If the CD sounds like it’s going to need some bass EQ this might indicate you need a sub to fill in the low end. That might make the Ketron sound nice and full all by itself. Again, nowadays, most arrangers are set up to sound great through a flat sound system, you might find yourself not needing to go through all this…
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#509542 - 02/01/24 12:50 PM Re: Ketron Audya 5 output assign issues [Re: matt07ie]
Bernie9 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5514
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
Hi Martin
That is what I was trying to convey, but Diki did a good job elaborating.
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#509648 - 02/28/24 06:02 AM Re: Ketron Audya 5 output assign issues [Re: matt07ie]
matt07ie Offline
Member

Registered: 04/28/12
Posts: 77
Loc: IRELAND
How's my good friend Bernie, and yes Diki did explain this very well for sure, your 100% right Diki, and I'm happy to say I'm finally getting to grips on levels and outputs,
I did bring up all sliders on full yes and at the gig the keyboard was pounding all my internal levels at 63 was a huge mistake, now today I have my midi drums set to 50/54 and Bass finger bass on country between
40/45, chords section can vary, it's really like for all the world members in your band making sure one player is not overpowering the next, another very very good mate of mine said Martin if you cannot hear a certain instrument in the mix then something is too loud and needs to come down in order for the whole band to be heard, very same applies to your arranger, Diki you did say why is there need to bring sections out seperately, I did sat this to my friend and he said all I need do is bring out the chords and drums seperately so that I can give. More if needs be on the drums and eq them he also said I could bring out the bass seperate too, but, which I did witness on another's Audya 5 arranger at a gig I was told better control, but honestly I think it's more of a hinderence really, but with drums seperated only can be an advantage in the live situation, last gig I was pleasenty surprised with my keyboards performance but still just a few of the Styles need tweaking to have an even balance across all styles I use on a nights gig,
happy to say I'm finally coming to end backing tracks on stage and continue live only 😉

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#509649 - 02/29/24 10:10 AM Re: Ketron Audya 5 output assign issues [Re: matt07ie]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14208
Loc: NW Florida
I find that starting from the levels that the arranger’s factory presets come with is usually best from a balance and headroom standpoint. Some very good engineers have determined that there is no internal overload, and they tend to be pretty good for a good balanced sound.

I’m afraid you need to explain to your friend that sorry, your arranger can’t split those parts out without considerable compromise in the sound (loss of effects on one or the other) and that no arranger (and darn few TOTL workstations) have split out parts that keep full effects.

They need to understand that playing with tracks (or an arranger) is a fundamental shift in the way you perform. As I say so often, with a live band with backline amps and individual monitor sends, most musicians play ON TOP of what they are hearing, and then a soundman at a mixer turns them down in the house mix (hopefully!) so everything is in balance from the audience’s ears. And whatever they want to hear is dialed into their monitors.

But playing with an arranger or SMF’s or stereo audio backing tracks, you have to play INSIDE the mix, you have to play at the level that the front of house engineer would have put you. Which is very often WAY lower than live musicians are used to.

But the nature of the beast is that this is what they have to do. It takes practice, it takes restraint, it takes changing your fundamental approach from being all about YOU to all about the live mix. Your bandmates are no longer guitarists, bassists etc.. They are now final mix engineers.

Even we, as experienced arranger players so often fall into the trap. Most demos put their solo parts WAY louder than a mixing engineer would put them.

There’s really one cure for it… constant live recording of the final mix. Constant self criticism. Constantly ask yourself, ‘If I were mixing this as an album, would I put my parts this loud?’. I’m afraid the honest answer is usually ‘No, I wouldn’t!’.

So you do it again with the parts turned down, re-record and ask the same question until the answer is ‘Yes’. And then that’s where you learn to play. WITHIN the mix. Your bandmates need to go through this process. But if they do, they’ll be better musicians for it, because music is collaborative. You can’t play as part of a collective if you aren’t hearing everything (including yourself) as a balanced whole.

There’s only one way they can keep playing the way they do. Separate keyboards for each sound. Old school! A drum machine. A bass synth. Several keyboards making ONE sound each. Then they can all have a completely different mix, hearing what each one wants. Bet you don’t want to do that!

We have (hopefully!) learned to play within the mix. They will have to as well…
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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