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#506675 - 10/01/22 01:37 PM Re: The new KETRON EVENT Workstation ... it's coming. [Re: Diki]
Ingres Offline
Member

Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 80
Loc: FWI
... but I don't think i bother people as you do...
Enough .... waiting for next interesting words... (not from you)
Elderness without wisdom is so sad!


Edited by Ingres (10/01/22 03:30 PM)
_________________________
from now on, on some forums, I make a screen copy... in case... time will tell
imagine some people you know having more power...luckily God knows best! Take it easy ... and funny!

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#506680 - 10/01/22 11:38 PM Re: The new KETRON EVENT Workstation ... it's coming. [Re: Ketron_AJ]
Sokratis 1974 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/06/10
Posts: 776
Loc: Hellas, Creta, Iraklion
Hello.
Ketron has copy protection system since Audya but for her own reasons she doesn't have it (public).
But when someone foreign developer ask for the protection system, the company provides it.
For various reasons, however, there were not many who were interested in development.
Regarding your concern about the chords in the new Real Chord, I have the following to say:
It is something much more different than the old sliced Live Guitar which indeed in most cases did not exceed 4 to 5 different chords so in the case of choosing a chord that did not exist a midi file riff which was trying to fill the void.

The new Real Chord of Ketron It has two exellent new features:
1) Incredible ease of import into the machine.
2) Multi-chord capability.
But let me not expand further because I can't say more that right until the company announces everything.
When everything is announced I will be able to analyze it for you.
Thanks.


Edited by Sokratis 1974 (10/02/22 12:23 AM)
_________________________
Style Producer, Sound Engineer, Sound Design.
Ketron Event, Ketron Audya 76, Audya 5, SD9, SD1,Yamaha Genos, Korg Pa3x, microarranger, Roland Fantom G6, V-Synth XT, XV-5080, SH201, D-50, Novation KS4, Dave Smith Evolver

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#506682 - 10/02/22 08:25 AM Re: The new KETRON EVENT Workstation ... it's coming. [Re: Ingres]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 13958
Loc: NW Florida
Originally Posted By Ingres
... but I don't think i bother people as you do...
Enough .... waiting for next interesting words... (not from you)
Elderness without wisdom is so sad!


You have a lot of success on other forums insulting the moderators..?

First warning. Want to see if you get a second?
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#506684 - 10/02/22 09:22 AM Re: The new KETRON EVENT Workstation ... it's coming. [Re: Diki]
cgiles Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6587
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Originally Posted By Diki


You have a lot of success on other forums insulting the moderators..?

First warning. Want to see if you get a second?


I don't think threats are in order here. It may trigger thoughts among members of 'abuse of power'. Plus, I don't think his comments had anything to do with 'moderators' in general, seemed more directed than that to me.

Could it be that some members might get a little tired of hearing all the criticisms of their $3-5k investments (which they seem to be quite satisfied with). I love my car even though it doesn't have a heads-up display or self-parking. Maybe it's because I don't think self-parking is going to make my trip better or make me a better driver. And if my son points out these omissions, I will quickly tell him to go screw himself. What I'm saying is, that people get tired of being harangued about things they don't give a hoot about. Maybe problems should be addressed when they're presented by actual users of the instrument in question. What's important to some members may have little or no importance to others and that's a personal thing. Also, opinions shouldn't be presented as fact, no matter how credentialed the person THINKS they are. Look how long we thought the world was flat. JMO, of course. Hope I don't get expelled for expressing it.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#506689 - 10/02/22 02:19 PM Re: The new KETRON EVENT Workstation ... it's coming. [Re: cgiles]
Ingres Offline
Member

Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 80
Loc: FWI

Thanks ...
... ...
_________________________
from now on, on some forums, I make a screen copy... in case... time will tell
imagine some people you know having more power...luckily God knows best! Take it easy ... and funny!

Top
#506691 - 10/03/22 02:30 PM Re: The new KETRON EVENT Workstation ... it's coming. [Re: Ketron_AJ]
groovyband.live Offline
Member

Registered: 09/02/19
Posts: 64
Originally Posted By Ketron_AJ
More info here:- https://youtu.be/igss1qU9_8c


For more info on KETRON products, visit us at www.AjamSonic.com or http://www.KetronAmerica.com
* Professional Arranger. 76 half-weighted keys keyboard.
* New dual processor
* 128 Notes polyphony. Top quality Orchestral Sounds. 2 Voices ( 3 Sounds each )
* Performance. User Voice, User Style. Registrations.
* 3 Groove Section3, with new Loops and Midi Patterns
* New Digital Drawbars are back.
* 4 x DSP Effects. External DSP controls with potentiometers.
* More than 400 Styles. Full Audio Arrangements, featuring Live Drums, Real Bass and Real Chords, Live Guitars and 5 Midi Chords. 3 Lower Voices.
* Phrase Recording. Midi Song recording.
* User Sample Editor with 32 Splits, Stereo samples, up to 4 Layers.


128 notes and 4 DSPs. (!!!)

It sounds like a PSR 1500 of 2004 (sold for the equivalent of ~1 k€ current day money), not a top of the line arranger of 2023 (probably retailing at 4÷5 k€).

HW arrangers have always been old tech, lagging 15÷20 years behind other more mainstream computing devices. The PSR 1500 in 2004 was no exception.
Here we are adding another 20 years of lag on top of the usual and standard 20 years. Totaling a whopping 30÷40 years ”late to the party” retro computing technology.

And, by the way, the PSR 1500 could play flawlessly not less than 20+ different chord shapes in all the 12 keys.
_________________________
Groovyband Live! - Realtime Arranger Software

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#506692 - 10/03/22 03:13 PM Re: The new KETRON EVENT Workstation ... it's coming. [Re: Ketron_AJ]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 13958
Loc: NW Florida
And that, Chas, is the way to form a post that isn’t simply an insult.

I do NOT post my candid personal opinions about members here. What I feel about them, their playing ability, technical ability or their personality is kept to myself. You REALLY don’t want to hear my candid impressions of several people who regularly post here..!

And sorry, but this is not an abuse of power. I would threaten a ban to ANYONE who simply insulted another member here. This is not a forum for personal insults. No matter how defensive you might feel about a criticism of an expensive arranger you spent money on, it’s not a direct criticism of YOU.

Ingres’ post was. And that won’t be tolerated here, no matter who it’s directed at.
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#506694 - 10/03/22 10:06 PM Re: The new KETRON EVENT Workstation ... it's coming. [Re: groovyband.live]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 13958
Loc: NW Florida
Originally Posted By groovyband.live
Originally Posted By Ketron_AJ
More info here:- https://youtu.be/igss1qU9_8c


For more info on KETRON products, visit us at www.AjamSonic.com or http://www.KetronAmerica.com
* Professional Arranger. 76 half-weighted keys keyboard.
* New dual processor
* 128 Notes polyphony. Top quality Orchestral Sounds. 2 Voices ( 3 Sounds each )
* Performance. User Voice, User Style. Registrations.
* 3 Groove Section3, with new Loops and Midi Patterns
* New Digital Drawbars are back.
* 4 x DSP Effects. External DSP controls with potentiometers.
* More than 400 Styles. Full Audio Arrangements, featuring Live Drums, Real Bass and Real Chords, Live Guitars and 5 Midi Chords. 3 Lower Voices.
* Phrase Recording. Midi Song recording.
* User Sample Editor with 32 Splits, Stereo samples, up to 4 Layers.


128 notes and 4 DSPs. (!!!)

It sounds like a PSR 1500 of 2004 (sold for the equivalent of ~1 k€ current day money), not a top of the line arranger of 2023 (probably retailing at 4÷5 k€).

HW arrangers have always been old tech, lagging 15÷20 years behind other more mainstream computing devices. The PSR 1500 in 2004 was no exception.
Here we are adding another 20 years of lag on top of the usual and standard 20 years. Totaling a whopping 30÷40 years ”late to the party” retro computing technology.

And, by the way, the PSR 1500 could play flawlessly not less than 20+ different chord shapes in all the 12 keys.


The problem with software arrangers is that, so far, no one has put a package together with as integrated and consistent a soundset as a decent TOTL hardware arranger. As always, the goal with most players is to turn it on and it sound good out of the box. Arranger soundsets are designed with this in mind. They are also designed for simple sound swap ability. Take a rock kit, change it to a brush set, the style still sounds balanced. Take the acoustic guitar track and change it to a chorused Strat… it still sounds balanced. Go from a grand piano to a Rhodes in you RH area, you don’t have to adjust the volume. You have several pianos to choose from, often dozens of Rhodes and other E.Pianos to choose from, and they most likely won’t need you to grab the volume slider in a panic.

But that’s not how workstations are set up. And that’s DEFINITELY not how software sound packages are set up. It’s the Wild West out there, with very little volume leveling or consistency of velocity response from sound to sound. That’s not really a high priority for workstations and software sample sets other than some very barebones Sound Canvas emulators.

So, while you get access to FAR better sounds if you go the software route, you’re pretty much on your own to balance it all and get an instrument that is as instantly flexible as a well designed hardware synth.

And I’m sorry, but the whole business of guitar strumming and picking is WAY more complicated than a lowly PSR1500 could manage. Sure, it can play far more chord types than most loop based arrangers can, but they are voiced wrong, and jump around in a completely unrealistic way. Guitars aren’t linear. Because of the strings and chord shapes, you can’t use a simple lookup table on a guitar part.

Korg, Yamaha and Roland all developed unique solutions to voicing guitar chords far more correctly than the old PSR1500. And current software VSTi’s do it amazingly well. It’s stuff like this I want to see as the future of guitar part emulation. Loops are only as good as how many different types, keys, and inversions are recorded for them. It looks like the new Ketron COULD get close, but it appears that cost considerations (great session players and good studios aren’t cheap!) have made them restrict the choices. Understandably, to be honest.

But if you want to hear how good MIDI based guitar emulation has got, go listen to some AAS Strum demos, or Steinberg’s Virtual Guitarist, or Ample Guitar etc..

The need for audio loops for realism has all but disappeared.
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

Top
#506700 - 10/04/22 12:22 PM Re: The new KETRON EVENT Workstation ... it's coming. [Re: groovyband.live]
Ketron_AJ Offline
Moderator

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3534
Loc: Middletown, DE
Originally Posted By groovyband.live
Originally Posted By Ketron_AJ
More info here:- https://youtu.be/igss1qU9_8c


For more info on KETRON products, visit us at www.AjamSonic.com or http://www.KetronAmerica.com
* Professional Arranger. 76 half-weighted keys keyboard.
* New dual processor
* 128 Notes polyphony. Top quality Orchestral Sounds. 2 Voices ( 3 Sounds each )
* Performance. User Voice, User Style. Registrations.
* 3 Groove Section3, with new Loops and Midi Patterns
* New Digital Drawbars are back.
* 4 x DSP Effects. External DSP controls with potentiometers.
* More than 400 Styles. Full Audio Arrangements, featuring Live Drums, Real Bass and Real Chords, Live Guitars and 5 Midi Chords. 3 Lower Voices.
* Phrase Recording. Midi Song recording.
* User Sample Editor with 32 Splits, Stereo samples, up to 4 Layers.


128 notes and 4 DSPs. (!!!)

It sounds like a PSR 1500 of 2004 (sold for the equivalent of ~1 k€ current day money), not a top of the line arranger of 2023 (probably retailing at 4÷5 k€).

HW arrangers have always been old tech, lagging 15÷20 years behind other more mainstream computing devices. The PSR 1500 in 2004 was no exception.
Here we are adding another 20 years of lag on top of the usual and standard 20 years. Totaling a whopping 30÷40 years ”late to the party” retro computing technology.

And, by the way, the PSR 1500 could play flawlessly not less than 20+ different chord shapes in all the 12 keys.


I need to respond to such posts just because there are others who read this and if they do not see a response, take it for its value.

More Polyphony is needed more for purely MIDI-based arrangers and less for Hybrids (Midi + Audio). So when you quote a Midi based arranger having 128 notes some years ago, you are correct, but comparing that or equating that to an Arranger with both Midi and Audio can't be true, let alone an instrument that is streaming 5 Audio tracks together at once! The KETRON AUDYA is a Hybrid (Midi and Audio) Arranger with 196 notes of Polyphony.

To give others a perspective so they are not lost - when you play your Wav/Mp3 song, your 'player' sees it as 2 tracks (Stereo), so you get all these sounds coming off 2 tracks; therefore in the Midi world, your player is 2 notes polyphony as it can play a max of 2 'tracks' at a given time. So if you have a keyboard that can play 6 audio tracks that has 128 notes assigned to Midi playback, that is a HUGE leap forward in today's technology, especially when it can play that AS AN ARRANGER in conjunction with any style (chord changes in real-time, tempo changes in real-time), a feature no PSR to date can do effortlessly, and so while the technology in many Midi Based Arranger may be outdated, those in the Hybrid Arrangers are just beginning to show their "strengths" and yes, weaknesses too.

I hope this clarifies this for others out there who are reading this post.
_________________________
[KETRON - USA]
Design Engineer & Product Specialist.
www.KetronAmerica.com

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#506701 - 10/04/22 12:55 PM Re: The new KETRON EVENT Workstation ... it's coming. [Re: Ketron_AJ]
Ingres Offline
Member

Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 80
Loc: FWI
Thanks for clarifying, as far as you are allowed to at this moment.


Edited by Ingres (10/04/22 03:17 PM)
_________________________
from now on, on some forums, I make a screen copy... in case... time will tell
imagine some people you know having more power...luckily God knows best! Take it easy ... and funny!

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