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#506226 - 07/19/22 03:16 AM Re: My new PSR-3000 video [Re: Kabinopus]
Kabinopus Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/04
Posts: 667
Loc: Russia
Bruno123 No worries, John, I always appreciate your contribution. I think, the genres you play are both the most suitable and most sophisticated for arrangers. Music doesn't really get old, it just passes the test of time.

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#506227 - 07/19/22 05:38 AM Re: My new PSR-3000 video [Re: Kabinopus]
bruno123 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4881
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
PROGRAMMING MY SX900

I played guitar professionally for about 50 years. I gathered an ocean of knowledge in chords, chord progressions, and chord substitution. I used that knowledge when I moved to an arranger keyboard.

My left hand is very important, it tells the keyboard where to go – and more. When singing, or playing an instrumental, a song the time you play it as written. The second time you improvise. You play what you are feeling; without losing the melody of the song. Here is where chord knowledge takes over. (left hand)
G7 to C major is played – Dm7 G7 Db7 C major6. Your right hand follows what the left hand created.

What you are playing belongs to you, you do not fall into all sounding the same.
There is a short study available on the subject.

EX. Left hand is playing C7. Your fight hand knows the notes you are playing, so when it plays these notes they agree.
You also know the possible substitutions that are possible for C7. C7-9, C7+5. They are only the beginning.

This method is not used with all types of music.
EX. Rock Around the Clock.

There are Jazz players who used scales – when they are playing, you have no idea what song it is. I was playing a job with a sax player. The first tune was in the key of F major. The second song was also in the same key --- (he improvised with scales) In the middle of the song he asked me what song were we playing.

This is the first step in sounding like a band and not a keyboard; there is more.
John C.

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#506229 - 07/19/22 02:24 PM Re: My new PSR-3000 video [Re: Kabinopus]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15406
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Diki, after I went solo, only one band member continued to perform on stage. The others became home players other than the times we got together as friends and jammed for a few hours, which was usually about once a month at my home. The one that continued to perform on stage performed about once a month at most. I, on the other hand, performed 7 days a week, and often did doubles and a few triples. I managed to make a damned good living at being a musician/entertainer. I was the guy in the band that booked the jobs, kept the books, owned the PA system(s), took care of the equipment repairs, etc..., which is what a good business person does. For the most part, to the other players, being in a band was just something they did for recreation and having fun with old friends.

As for the intros, well, the vast majority of good arranger keyboard players that I knew played their own intros, though there were some canned intros that were song specific that pretty much introduced the song, thus urging the dancers in the crowd to get on the dance floor. I always figured I was playing for the ladies, which proved not to be the case. Some of the biggest tippers were folks vacationing in the Florida Keys and for the most part were men. And, some were trained musicians. I was working every night, and they managed to work one day a week on the weekends, mainly because music, which they trained for at locations such as Peabody in Baltimore, didn't pay enough to support their family. They were great players, piano, guitar, etc, but they never approached music as a business. To them, it was an expensive hobby, which is the case for most members of this forum.

As you are well aware, I thoroughly enjoyed playing music, but from day one, I looked at music as a business and way to support my family. I was never a purist, even when I played solo guitar and sang to an audience. The very first time I encountered a duo performing with an arranger keyboard and the other person, a 12-string guitar, I took note of everything they did. They were very popular in the Baltimore Metro Area, booked solid, and charged top prices, which at the time, for nite clubs and restaurants, was $150 for a 4-hour performance on weekends and $100 for weekdays. Now, that was a very long time ago, but the pay scales in those locations has not changed very much, and damned sure has not kept up with inflation. I chose to go the senior circuit, which paid me a living wage, better hours, no long commutes and new locations opening up nearly every month. Yes, I did it for the money!

Diki, for the most part, people that go somewhere to listen to small bands and OMB performers go there to be entertained. By and large, the folks in the audiences are not highly skilled or professionally trained musicians, however, they have likely been enjoying listening to music for majority of their lives. Otherwise they would not go to those places. Most of the time, they listen music on the radio while driving to an from work, on TV, attend concerts, go to bars and restaurants where they have some form of musical entertainment they prefer listening to. They really don't give a tinkers damned if you are a professional musician that has been trained at an institution that specialized in this field of endeavor. It makes little of no difference to them if you play your music on a Steinway or a Korg, just as long as it's well played and entertaining. You, of all people should be well aware of this. The bar and restaurant owners are keenly aware of the value of having good ENTERTAINERS at their place of business, and how much more each individual is willing to spend because of the entertainment. They know that if those chairs are filled with folks that came to dine, they tend to stay much longer, buy more of those overpriced drinks and for the most part, spend more money during their outings.

I came to this forum, the General Arranger Keyboard Forum, to learn from others that treated music as a business while playing an arranger keyboard. I didn't come here to be entertained or to improve my musicianship, though it has been entertaining at times to be here. I came to learn about the inner working of an arranger keyboard, a task that I took very seriously. Additionally, I went on the road, traveling thousands upon thousands of miles to watch these individuals perform. I traveled from Maine to the Florida Keys, west to Texas and up the center of the US stopping in every location where someone was performing with an arranger keyboard to a paying audience. I sincerely believe that I learned more from DNJ, Uncle Dave, Don Mason, Eddie Shoemaker, Bob Lee, Jimmy McKinney, Bill In Dayton, Fran Corango and a huge number of others that were NOT professionally trained musicians than I could have ever learned from those that claimed they were.

My only regret was that I didn't spend more time with my wife and children, sailing and fishing in Chesapeake Bay and the nearby offshore waters of the mid-Atlantic Ocean. I still get to see my daughter nearly every day and evening, but that is in conjunction of taking care of my wife and her debilitating medical conditions. My son lives about 2 hours away, and we get to see them once or twice a month, but my love of boating has kept him exploring the waters of Chesapeake Bay with his family and enjoying the outdoors. And, while he is a fantastic musician, he does not depend upon music for a living. He has a wife and 3 step-daughters to support.

Finally, Chas and I only agree on one thing - need I not say more. wink

All the best,

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#506230 - 07/19/22 04:08 PM Re: My new PSR-3000 video [Re: Kabinopus]
cgiles Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6559
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Gary, you're right about one thing; we certainly don't agree on much, especially musically and politically. But let's just stick to music. Based on your last post, you view music as a business and have no desire to improve as a musician. I view music as an art form that demands a lifelong commitment to improving one's creative and performance skills. You measure 'success' by how much money you can make via small amounts x high gig volumes (frankly, I don't know too many guys that enjoy working 7 days/week). I view 'success' by the quality of the art you are able to create. However, there is no reason both goals can't be realized. With modest talent, mediocre performance skills, but good business skills, one can make a modest living, but with real talent and performance skills derived from years of hard work and dedication to the art (and sometimes a little luck smile ), one has the POTENTIAL to make a fantastic living. In the end it's just a matter of what's important to you. Me, I feel blessed that I can feel things that I KNOW others can not. Whether that's shaped by whatever life has thrown at you or it's just in the DNA (I don't really believe that), I can't say, but as the old Duke Ellington song goes, 'It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing'.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#506232 - 07/20/22 09:55 AM Re: My new PSR-3000 video [Re: Kabinopus]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15406
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Duke was a pretty smart guy!

Chas, I began playing a piano at age 5, but was never very proficient at it. I picked up a guitar at age 12, learned a bunch of chords, mostly full chords - not bar chords, then managed to learn a bunch of bar chords, developed several picking styles for songs I enjoyed playing and discovered I had the ability to sing in tune.

Over the years, I managed to learn more songs that I enjoyed playing and discovered that my ability to sing and play continued to improve. I never really looked at music as an art form, and to be honest, I really only know of a few individuals, such as yourself, that do look at it that way. I don't think that Liberace considered it an art form, though he was probably the best piano player in the world at the time, and looked at music as an entertainment business venture. Ferrante & Teicher were my entertainment heroes when I was in my early 20s, and they made a fortune creating show tunes, playing light versions of classical music and later developed the most incredible stereo recording system using 2 separate studios a block apart in New York, City. The sounds were absolutely amazing.

In my case, a radio station manager happened to be dining at a restaurant where I was performing on night, he approached me and asked if I had ever considered a career in live broadcasting. I said I had never thought about it, and we set up an audition for the following afternoon. He had me read news from a yellow sheet that had just come off a teletype machine, and when I finished, he made me an offer I could not refuse. I didn't stop playing music, though.

A couple months later, I got offers to do voice-overs for automobile dealers and because the pay was so high, I decided to expand on my vocal abilities by taking a course at the local community college called "Voice And Articulation" which was taught by a popular, Baltimore area Jazz singer. I learned a lot and put it into good practice, not only for doing voice-overs and news casts, but additionally, to improve my singing vocals. So, in some respects, I guess you could call those vocals an art form, but I also looked at it more from a business aspect. Kinda like the local portrait painter that paints portraits of your family and makes a damned good living doing so. smile

Now, I never hit it big on stage, never quite got to a 6 figure income as an musician/entertainer, but during the many decades I was on stage, I enjoyed every minute. I had lots of fun playing and singing to my varied and diverse audiences, met some wonderful people, and similar to Captain Russ, made a few business contacts in related fields of endeavor.

Even during the 15 years I spent working in Cardio-Pulmonary Medicine, I still managed to find time to play music, mostly at private parties, and spend time in the outdoors with my wife and children. I didn't sleep much back then, burning the candle at both ends, I was a skinny kid when I was in my 20s and 30s, weighing just 145 pounds and 6 feet tall, but I considered every day a fun day, and some just more fun than others, especially when I had a music job, or could take the wife and children fishing.

Now, I truly consider you to be a very accomplished player and have the ability to create some incredible music, though I think I may have only heard you perform a half-dozen times over the years. I don't know if you have ever performed on stage, or not, though I recall you may have said something about performing in a group or small band at one time. And, I believe we have a few more things in common in that we were both in the US Navy, you much longer than myself. I only spent 4 years in the "Canoe Club", nearly all of which were aboard the USS Newport News (CA-148) and visited a huge number of countries. Back then, they called those voyages as "Good Will Tours." HA! A bunch of drunken sailors looking to find a loose lady on shore and drinking till they can barely stand upright really doesn't sound like a good will tour. wink

So, when you have time to sit down at your B3 or arranger keyboard and be creative, be sure to record your artwork and post it here so this hack, arranger keyboard entertainer can enjoy it as well. I really enjoy listening to your music.

All the best,

Gary cool


Edited by travlin'easy (07/20/22 09:58 AM)
Edit Reason: spelling error
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#506234 - 07/20/22 01:24 PM Re: My new PSR-3000 video [Re: Kabinopus]
cgiles Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6559
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Gary, I mean no disrespect but house painting, private garbage collection, lawn maintenance, dog walking, in fact, practically anything can be a business. None of these things reflects the expression of feelings and emotions, the innate requirements of things like pitch and timing (rhythm), or the harmonic interplay that gives music it's sonic signature. This is my view of music which makes it difficult for me to view it as just 'a business'. Sure, it may be a major component in variety of businesses, but it itself is NOT a business (in my view). Of course this attitude that (for you) 'music is a business', would make you not a musician but a businessman. But even so, doesn't a successful business have an obligation to produce the best possible product, or is it 'profit first, product be damned'?

On the other thing, yes, I've played semi-professionally (ie. never full time) for the last 50 years until I retired from playing publicly about 3-4 years ago. I've stayed active (for fun) with some local retired and semi-retired professionals.

Equipment wise, I have finally outgrown 'gas' attacks (well, as soon as I get my digital piano smile ) and mostly spend my fun playing time on my Crumar SEVEN (with my grandson on guitar or sax). Enjoyed your last video although it made me a little sad. Have a good day.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#506235 - 07/20/22 01:41 PM Re: My new PSR-3000 video [Re: travlin'easy]
cgiles Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6559
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Originally Posted By travlin'easy

So, when you have time to sit down at your B3 or arranger keyboard and be creative, be sure to record your artwork and post it here so this hack, arranger keyboard entertainer can enjoy it as well. I really enjoy listening to your music.

All the best,

Gary cool


Gary, I recorded and posted this JUST FOR YOU. I'll repost it in case you missed it. Hint....it ain't that great smile , I screwed up the ending. It's an oldie called 'THERE'LL NEVER BE ANOTHER YOU'. Sounds best on studio monitors or phones.


https://app.box.com/s/mk61ey59ixf93sg5msbpd8f1binr1lgy

chas


Edited by cgiles (07/20/22 01:42 PM)
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#506236 - 07/20/22 03:30 PM Re: My new PSR-3000 video [Re: Kabinopus]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 13848
Loc: NW Florida
So let me get this straight, Gary… you played for a while in a band that, other than you, was neither good enough nor keen enough on music that anyone other than you continued in the profession. Then you also admit that you weren’t really proficient on keyboards or guitar. But fortunately, arrangers arrived on the scene in time for you to do a solo act that requires little skill other than singing and entertaining.

Fair enough, Gary. However, let’s be straight. This isn’t the experience of most pro musicians. Most pro musicians start out playing with players that are far better and more experienced than they are, and learn what a joy that is, and learn to appreciate these more skilled players, and do their level best to improve to at least their level. I feel sad that this wasn’t how your path into playing professionally happened. But it does explain a lot about your attitude towards musicians that aren’t in love with arrangers. It rather sounds like you don’t really have a base of experience to draw from to compare them to. At least, never one that seriously outperformed an arranger!

Your early performing days seem to have soured you on playing with others, and I can’t tell you how sad that makes me feel. You were robbed.

No one gives a rats how much they make as a musician if they ARE a musician. Seems like it is a your primary motivation, and no doubt if you didn’t land a steady entertainer gig, you would have happily joined the rest of your early bandmates rarely ever playing, maybe a bit at home as a hobby. But please don’t project your experience on those of us that DO love music, DO love it played at a higher level than an arranger can provide, and do realize that the arranger has a LONG way to go before it is better than even average musicians.
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#506237 - 07/20/22 03:32 PM Re: My new PSR-3000 video [Re: Kabinopus]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15406
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Chas, it sounded great to me, including the ending. Ironically, I used to perform that song, but using a style that mimicked The Seekers rendition. I never recorded it, though, but I recall at the time using the PSR-2000 arranger keyboard and a 3rd party style that I obtained from the PSR Tutorial forum. To be honest, I think I liked your jazz rendition of the song better than the original. smile For me it was a difficult song to perform, mainly because back then, the only vocal harmonizer was the onboard harmonizer of the keyboard, which had a terrible lag time of nearly a second from the time it was triggered with the foot switch until it kicked in.

Thanks for posting this one again,

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#506239 - 07/20/22 05:47 PM Re: My new PSR-3000 video [Re: Kabinopus]
cgiles Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6559
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Gary, you may be mistaking this song for the folk tune 'I'll never find another you' by the Seekers. A fine folk tune but definitely not the same song.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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