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#505292 - 03/29/22 09:48 AM
Re: Digging Deeper On Your Arrangers?
[Re: MusicalMemories]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15560
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
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I love digging into the bowels of the keyboard, discovering things that I can relay to others on the various forums I frequent. I currently own a Yamaha S-950, which will likely be the last keyboard I will purchase. Unfortunately, I too know about the failing eyesight (macular degeneration) and shaky fingers (distal neuropathy of the hands and lower body parts) which makes doing things you took for granted a real challenge. I have always said that 90 percent of the arrange keyboard players, at least the ones that I know, never take the user manual out of the Zip-Loc bag that it came in. Then, when they cannot solve a problem, their next step is Google. All the best, Gary
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!
K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)
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#505299 - 03/29/22 11:25 AM
Re: Digging Deeper On Your Arrangers?
[Re: montunoman]
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Member
Registered: 03/22/17
Posts: 449
Loc: Mountain Home, AR
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yes,no,maybe. I've been under the weather since covid started and haven't done as much as I want. Also seems to tkae me forever to learn most anything if I don't mess with it every day. Took forever to figure out registrations!
_________________________
PSR 740,PSR 3000, Mirage, tx7, mp32, Pro Tools 10,11 SONAR, Reaper, BIAB 2020 and a pile of Computer Music mags w/disks College student was working on Doctoral, Education Now just doing courses to do courses
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#505303 - 03/29/22 12:54 PM
Re: Digging Deeper On Your Arrangers?
[Re: MusicalMemories]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15560
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
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Earl, as you are aware, registrations are a bit complex, but they are a great tool that permits you to accomplish a lot things with a single push of a button. All the best, Gary
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!
K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)
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#505308 - 03/29/22 03:08 PM
Re: Digging Deeper On Your Arrangers?
[Re: MusicalMemories]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15560
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
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I know what you are saying, Mel. At one time I had a dozen fellow keyboard players coming here once a week for me to show them how to make registrations and make their own, custom MFD. Unfortunately, several have passed away during the past few years, so the phone only rings about once or twice a week for me to solve their problems. Good luck, Gary
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!
K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)
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#505320 - 03/30/22 10:32 AM
Re: Digging Deeper On Your Arrangers?
[Re: MusicalMemories]
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14194
Loc: NW Florida
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I don’t honestly think that anyone that simply wants to switch on an arranger, select a style, select a sound (or use the One Touch selections) and start making music needs to crack the manual at all! I am pretty impressed by just how well set up they tend to be, these days. Select a swing style or a bossa, whatever, hit the OTS, you are pretty much good to go..!
The problem comes if you end up wanting to do more, or repeatability. And that’s not all that important for non-performers, which, let’s face it, is the vast majority of arranger buyers.
I have a feeling that Gary’s drop off in people seeking advice is a result of most buyers of arrangers these days coming from one of two places… they either have already owned an arranger before, and have already learned the things they need to, or they are younger buyers, coming from a generation of players far less traumatized by the idea of looking up operational details in a manual or Googling a video.
The younger generations have been dealing with tech for most of their lives. It’s mostly us fossils that grew up with simple gear, things like a Rhodes with a couple of knobs, or home organs where every function had its own dedicated and labeled switch, early synths without a menu system etc. that seem the most resistant to cracking the manual…
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
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#505327 - 03/31/22 01:24 AM
Re: Digging Deeper On Your Arrangers?
[Re: MusicalMemories]
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5508
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
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I am sure what Diki says is correct, but I for example, run into technical problems for the above reason. Back in the glory days, we would jump right in and ask most any general question and have an answer in short order. Yes, times have changed, but that shouldn't mean we give up. I admit to the very same thing; I check in and see very little going on, and don't bother with my question. That is the wrong way of looking at the problem of inactivity. We still have some of the faithful members that post, thankfully.
I am going to ask a simple question about whether it is fairly easy, via Midi, to remotely command a slave keyboard to transpose a pitch from a transpose on the master, assuming midi capability on both.
_________________________
pa4X 76 ,SX900, Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station, Bose compact
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#505334 - 03/31/22 01:55 PM
Re: Digging Deeper On Your Arrangers?
[Re: cgiles]
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5508
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
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Thanks all. Chas, good info to avoid double transpose.
_________________________
pa4X 76 ,SX900, Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station, Bose compact
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#505343 - 04/01/22 03:18 PM
Re: Digging Deeper On Your Arrangers?
[Re: MusicalMemories]
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14194
Loc: NW Florida
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You may be shocked, but I’m not the kind of player that cracks the manual first! But I am an inveterate button pusher and knob twiddler (probably from my old analog days) and long before I get to the ‘I want to do this’ phase I’m mostly in the ‘I wonder what happens if I do this?’ phase!
I often learn stuff that you don’t really get from a manual, which generally aren’t written as tutorials, more as reference operations manuals.
About the only thing I look up when I first get a keyboard is how to store any happy accidents, and how to avoid messing up the factory settings when I inevitably screw something up! The nitty gritty comes later, after I have noodled around for a while.
One thing I have done for a long time is never sell my current arranger to get a new one. I don’t like the pressure of knuckling down to getting it gig ready too fast. There’s always something cool you’ll find about the OS or workflow that you often miss trying to shoehorn old habits on a new keyboard in a rush to get it to the gig. Plus, I really like to rework my entire repertoire to use the new sounds and styles, or edit my sequences to use better kits and sounds, and that takes time, too. If you force yourself to gig too quickly, you tend to use the legacy data, and consequently sound damn near identical to the old arranger. In which case, why did you just blow a couple of grand?!
Give yourself time to just fiddle around, it’s amazing what you can find out! Most of which you’ll never get from the manual…. I love being surprised. And you often don’t get that if you crack the manual first thing!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
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#505344 - 04/01/22 03:39 PM
Re: Digging Deeper On Your Arrangers?
[Re: MusicalMemories]
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14194
Loc: NW Florida
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@Graham…
The thing about an arranger sounding its ’best’, that’s so many things to so many people. What you are playing through, where you are playing, what kind of music you’re playing to what kind of people… there’s honestly no one way to set up an arranger.
But I feel that, on the whole, most factory settings are designed for either the built-in speakers or pretty crappy home speakers in a dead bedroom or living room, which is what the majority of arranger buyers will have. These players are also the kind of people you expect to have a big ‘smile’ on their home stereo!
And, the truth is, I have many times seen people come up to me and ask why my arranger sounds so much better than theirs. I always hate to tell them it isn’t from some trick EQ and compression setting, or days spent editing the sounds (I rarely change my ROM sounds much if anything).
But playing a lousy sax sample exactly like a sax player will sound better than the best articulated multi-velocity sound available played badly and unidiomatically. Pros, especially demonstrators, sound so good because of what they play, not what they play on…. The harsh reality is, if the demonstrator sat down at a bog stock factory setting arranger, it will sound so much better than the home player. I always took pride during my music store demonstrator days of using the out of the box keyboard.
To be honest, nowadays, the thing I do to make my sound ‘better’ is to turn OFF the factory compression and EQ. I got decent speakers on the gig, and good studio nearfields at home, I don’t need any of that stuff to make crappy speakers sound better! But it’s still what I actually PLAY that gets my preparation time. Take care of that, the overall sound isn’t really all that critical… 🎹😎
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
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#505347 - 04/01/22 05:22 PM
Re: Digging Deeper On Your Arrangers?
[Re: cgiles]
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Member
Registered: 03/22/17
Posts: 449
Loc: Mountain Home, AR
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The thing is that most of you forget is that different people learn at different rates. I'm sorry but I've printed out the manual. I've also printer out whole sections of psr tutorial. I've read sections if instructions over and over and still don't know how to do stuff I have studied in depth. The arranger is not a easy to play and meke it sound good. You need to arrange each tune separately. This taked a lot more work than just playing a piano or organ.
_________________________
PSR 740,PSR 3000, Mirage, tx7, mp32, Pro Tools 10,11 SONAR, Reaper, BIAB 2020 and a pile of Computer Music mags w/disks College student was working on Doctoral, Education Now just doing courses to do courses
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#505354 - 04/02/22 02:31 PM
Re: Digging Deeper On Your Arrangers?
[Re: MusicalMemories]
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14194
Loc: NW Florida
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Well, as one of the first people in the States to get a DX7 and a breath controller (lucked into one while everybody else was on waiting lists and paying over retail!) I can’t disagree that it certainly HELPS to have a BC, and back before modeling and articulated sample sets, I’d have agreed 100%. But I don’t think it’s as necessary as it used to be. I’ve been working with the SWAM saxes on iPad, and by using the expression pedal, you can get about 80% of what the BC used to give you.
Yes, if you put a picky enough ear on it, just like the very best clone wheels, you can hear a difference. But to 99.9% of people, play an idiomatic enough line, you can get away with it..!
BTW, Roli got bought out and the new company is back making them. They also added a tactile line in the middle of the key to help your finger settle. I look forward to trying one soon…
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
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#505358 - 04/03/22 11:50 AM
Re: Digging Deeper On Your Arrangers?
[Re: MusicalMemories]
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5508
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
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Chas I think that is a great emulation of a slow lounge sax' I have a breathy sax on my Pa4x that doesn't sound that good. It could be my playing,duh.
_________________________
pa4X 76 ,SX900, Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station, Bose compact
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#505361 - 04/04/22 09:12 AM
Re: Digging Deeper On Your Arrangers?
[Re: MusicalMemories]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15560
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
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Yamaha's Sweet Tenor Sax is incredibly realistic and Boo Hargis said that it sounds so realistic that he would have a great deal of difficulty listening and determining if it was real or not. There are lots of other instruments on the newer model Yamaha arranger keyboards that are equally as realistic sounding, and in the hands of a good player, they can really make a huge difference in the production of a song. I personally believe that fingering technique and in depth knowledge of the instrument you are trying to emulate is the key to success. Don Mason was a sheer genius with his guitar emulation, and my son, whom is an accomplished guitarist said it would be impossible to know those sounds were coming from an arranger keyboard. Jimmy McKinney (JimSax) who was inducted in the Musicians Hall Of Fame in Maryland for his sax playing said he wishes he could get his tenor sax to sound as good as the one on his Tyros2 arranger keyboard. Attached are a few examples: 4 different sax demos from my PSR-S950. Sax Demos Gary
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!
K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)
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#505364 - 04/04/22 01:20 PM
Re: Digging Deeper On Your Arrangers?
[Re: MusicalMemories]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15560
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
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I have no idea how many of those midi sounds were created by Yamaha or any other manufacturer, though lately, some are samples of the actual instrument that have been digitized. This is the best I have been able to come up with - not perfect by any means, but I got a lot of accolades from really good musicians on another forum I frequent. Baker Street All the best, Gary
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!
K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)
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