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#505320 - 03/30/22 10:32 AM Re: Digging Deeper On Your Arrangers? [Re: MusicalMemories]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 13617
Loc: NW Florida
I don’t honestly think that anyone that simply wants to switch on an arranger, select a style, select a sound (or use the One Touch selections) and start making music needs to crack the manual at all! I am pretty impressed by just how well set up they tend to be, these days. Select a swing style or a bossa, whatever, hit the OTS, you are pretty much good to go..!

The problem comes if you end up wanting to do more, or repeatability. And that’s not all that important for non-performers, which, let’s face it, is the vast majority of arranger buyers.

I have a feeling that Gary’s drop off in people seeking advice is a result of most buyers of arrangers these days coming from one of two places… they either have already owned an arranger before, and have already learned the things they need to, or they are younger buyers, coming from a generation of players far less traumatized by the idea of looking up operational details in a manual or Googling a video.

The younger generations have been dealing with tech for most of their lives. It’s mostly us fossils that grew up with simple gear, things like a Rhodes with a couple of knobs, or home organs where every function had its own dedicated and labeled switch, early synths without a menu system etc. that seem the most resistant to cracking the manual…
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#505327 - 03/31/22 01:24 AM Re: Digging Deeper On Your Arrangers? [Re: MusicalMemories]
Bernie9 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5386
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
I am sure what Diki says is correct, but I for example, run into technical problems for the above reason. Back in the glory days, we would jump right in and ask most any general question and have an answer in short order. Yes, times have changed, but that shouldn't mean we give up. I admit to the very same thing; I check in and see very little going on, and don't bother with my question. That is the wrong way of looking at the problem of inactivity. We still have some of the faithful members that post, thankfully.

I am going to ask a simple question about whether it is fairly easy, via Midi, to remotely command a slave keyboard to transpose a pitch from a transpose on the master, assuming midi capability on both.
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pa4X 76 ,SX900, Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station, Bose compact

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#505328 - 03/31/22 03:30 AM Re: Digging Deeper On Your Arrangers? [Re: MusicalMemories]
Anthony Johnson Offline
Member

Registered: 02/03/02
Posts: 347
Loc: Sheffield Yorkshire England
Hi Bernie,
If I understand your question correctly, your master keyboard, when you use transpose, will pass that transposed note or chord to your slave keyboard of module.
You can use this to change key in a tune by setting a registration to normal and setting registration 2 transposed up (or down) by as many half notes as you like.

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#505329 - 03/31/22 03:56 AM Re: Digging Deeper On Your Arrangers? [Re: Bernie9]
bruno123 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4872
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
Years ago, I had to Midi my guitar to the left hand of the keyboard. Later I used Mid to connect a Yamaha keyboard and a Kn5000.

If my memory still holds ---

Both units ( Master and the Slave) have 16 Midi channels. Each unit has an implementation chart in the manual. It shows you what is being used in each Midi channel. Your job is to connect the Master to the Slave using the same Midi channel.

I had to send messages to my Vocalizer, a Yamaha keyboard, and a Roland sound module, from my Kn5000.
That was a long time ago. The units today may be friendlier.

I hope this helps, John C.

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#505331 - 03/31/22 06:22 AM Re: Digging Deeper On Your Arrangers? [Re: MusicalMemories]
cgiles Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6490
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Bernie, the answer is YES; and unless the 'master keyboard' has some specific command to tell it to ignore the transpose instruction and send the unaltered note data, it should be automatic. Note: the master isn't telling the slave to transpose, it's just sending the already transposed note.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#505332 - 03/31/22 07:21 AM Re: Digging Deeper On Your Arrangers? [Re: Diki]
Graham UK Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/20/01
Posts: 1924
Loc: Lincolnshire UK
Re-Diki Post. As a home player I have had different brand of arrangers for the past 50 years (yes I'm old).
No arrangers so far out of it's box has been set to give it's best sound quality wise.
I have always spent time learning a models OS so editing adjustments can be made to improve ones playing enjoyment.
Many times I have attended a Manufactures demonstration to hear other customers ask why does their same keyboard not sound as good as the demonstrators.



Edited by Graham UK (03/31/22 11:51 AM)

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#505334 - 03/31/22 01:55 PM Re: Digging Deeper On Your Arrangers? [Re: cgiles]
Bernie9 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5386
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
Thanks all.
Chas, good info to avoid double transpose.
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pa4X 76 ,SX900, Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station, Bose compact

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#505343 - 04/01/22 03:18 PM Re: Digging Deeper On Your Arrangers? [Re: MusicalMemories]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 13617
Loc: NW Florida
You may be shocked, but I’m not the kind of player that cracks the manual first! But I am an inveterate button pusher and knob twiddler (probably from my old analog days) and long before I get to the ‘I want to do this’ phase I’m mostly in the ‘I wonder what happens if I do this?’ phase!

I often learn stuff that you don’t really get from a manual, which generally aren’t written as tutorials, more as reference operations manuals.

About the only thing I look up when I first get a keyboard is how to store any happy accidents, and how to avoid messing up the factory settings when I inevitably screw something up! The nitty gritty comes later, after I have noodled around for a while.

One thing I have done for a long time is never sell my current arranger to get a new one. I don’t like the pressure of knuckling down to getting it gig ready too fast. There’s always something cool you’ll find about the OS or workflow that you often miss trying to shoehorn old habits on a new keyboard in a rush to get it to the gig. Plus, I really like to rework my entire repertoire to use the new sounds and styles, or edit my sequences to use better kits and sounds, and that takes time, too. If you force yourself to gig too quickly, you tend to use the legacy data, and consequently sound damn near identical to the old arranger. In which case, why did you just blow a couple of grand?!

Give yourself time to just fiddle around, it’s amazing what you can find out! Most of which you’ll never get from the manual…. I love being surprised. And you often don’t get that if you crack the manual first thing!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#505344 - 04/01/22 03:39 PM Re: Digging Deeper On Your Arrangers? [Re: MusicalMemories]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 13617
Loc: NW Florida
@Graham…

The thing about an arranger sounding its ’best’, that’s so many things to so many people. What you are playing through, where you are playing, what kind of music you’re playing to what kind of people… there’s honestly no one way to set up an arranger.

But I feel that, on the whole, most factory settings are designed for either the built-in speakers or pretty crappy home speakers in a dead bedroom or living room, which is what the majority of arranger buyers will have. These players are also the kind of people you expect to have a big ‘smile’ on their home stereo!

And, the truth is, I have many times seen people come up to me and ask why my arranger sounds so much better than theirs. I always hate to tell them it isn’t from some trick EQ and compression setting, or days spent editing the sounds (I rarely change my ROM sounds much if anything).

But playing a lousy sax sample exactly like a sax player will sound better than the best articulated multi-velocity sound available played badly and unidiomatically. Pros, especially demonstrators, sound so good because of what they play, not what they play on…. The harsh reality is, if the demonstrator sat down at a bog stock factory setting arranger, it will sound so much better than the home player. I always took pride during my music store demonstrator days of using the out of the box keyboard.

To be honest, nowadays, the thing I do to make my sound ‘better’ is to turn OFF the factory compression and EQ. I got decent speakers on the gig, and good studio nearfields at home, I don’t need any of that stuff to make crappy speakers sound better! But it’s still what I actually PLAY that gets my preparation time. Take care of that, the overall sound isn’t really all that critical… 🎹😎
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#505345 - 04/01/22 04:20 PM Re: Digging Deeper On Your Arrangers? [Re: Diki]
cgiles Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6490
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Originally Posted By Diki

But playing a lousy sax sample exactly like a sax player will sound better than the best articulated multi-velocity sound available played badly and unidiomatically.


This doesn't contradict your point BUT....I'm convinced that the only way to play a convincing sax on a keyboard is with a breath controller. JMO.

chas
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"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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