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#501979 - 01/11/21 04:34 PM Warning about using Garritan libraries live
Crossover Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/17
Posts: 596
Some months ago I overcame my resistance against software sounds and installed Garritan Big Band. It lay idle for months again, but finally yesterday I connected the Roland A500 controller and tried it (it is used with the Aira player).
The good thing was, even without any extra audio interface, I was able to play the trumpet I loaded into channel 1 without any latency.
The problem: the volume of the trumpet didn‘t change with key velocity. I had to use the mod wheel.
Today, I googled the problem and just found others with the same observation. In a forum it was explained that with Garritan, key velocity IS detected, but only used to change the attack from soft to sharp (which makes sense, as you can play a note quietly and nevertheless with a sharp attack and vice versa e.g. on the trumpet). For volume, you have to use the modulation wheel.
But if that can‘t be changed, it‘s a problem for live play, as mostly you don‘t have your left hand available to do the mod wheel control.

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#501982 - 01/12/21 12:53 AM Re: Warning about using Garritan libraries live [Re: Crossover]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5347
Loc: English Riviera, UK
That’s quite normal with VSTs, however if you want to do something different just remap the dynamics of the trumpet to respond to velocity instead of what it currently does.
You could also use a separate volume pedal as well (To be honest a keyboard without a volume pedal is always going to fall short when it comes to creating a realistic sound) as this opens many more avenues.

Bill
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English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#501984 - 01/12/21 05:00 AM Re: Warning about using Garritan libraries live [Re: Crossover]
Crossover Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/17
Posts: 596
Thank you. But can you really remap the modulation cc to key velocity, and if so, how? Maybe with an iPad midi app? I don‘t think the Aira player for Garritan provides such settings.

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#501987 - 01/12/21 05:31 AM Re: Warning about using Garritan libraries live [Re: Crossover]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5347
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Here are the standard Midi cc codes https://professionalcomposers.com/midi-cc-list/ which a lot of VSTs use as standard, however most VSTs allow user reassignment if it doesn’t suit.
I am not familiar with the Aria player but I would be surprised if you could not assign Midi cc codes, (Virtually every VST I have come across does) you may find that if you right click the control you wish to change, a list of Midi cc codes will come up for you to choose, as well as a Midi Learn function. (When Midi Learn is showing just move the control you wish to assign and it is done)
NOTE: You can also usually reassign them on the controller as well if the option is not available in the VST.
A good understanding of Midi can be found here https://www.tweakheadz.com/how_to_get_started_with_midi.html which should help you to get your head around things.
Hope this helps

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#501988 - 01/12/21 05:46 AM Re: Warning about using Garritan libraries live [Re: Crossover]
Crossover Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/17
Posts: 596
Thank you for the info. I am certainly no beginner to midi, having used many components combined live for 30 years (e.g. 2 keyboards with 4 zones in total, bass pedal, Roland Integra plus BK-7m) and done a lot of sequencer work with Cakewalk Sonar, however this specific problem of having no reaction to key velocity has never come up. So I‘ll be trying to find something under the links you provided.


Edited by Crossover (01/12/21 05:50 AM)

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#501990 - 01/12/21 07:58 AM Re: Warning about using Garritan libraries live [Re: Crossover]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14194
Loc: NW Florida
Unfortunately, it isn’t simply a matter of mapping modulation wheel to velocity. For starters, that’s a fairly complex transformation. Secondly, velocity is already being used to alter the attack samples of the note.

A better way to do the would be to map your foot controller to the modulation wheel (or vice versa in the software). This way you would free up your left hand, but still be able to control the volume of the sound.

The thing is, when emulating a non-keyboard sound, the volume of the sound is not a function of how hard the note is hit by the instrument in the first place, but by the wind pressure of the player, or the strength of the bowing etc. DURING the note’s length.

If you try this, you will find that you now have considerable control of the note AFTER you have hit the note, just like a real wind player, not just control over its volume the minute that you start the note.

Ideally, you might use a breath controller to control the sound, which would give you the most accurate control over the notes’ dynamics, but few of us have those anymore! But if you can practice breathing, or singing and try to make your foot follow your lungs, you will find that you are making a really authentic emulation of the instrument…

There’s a lot to be learned by trying to sing along with a horn sound you are trying to emulate. For starters, you immediately know when you are going to have to take a breath in the line you are playing, because our lungs are not infinite LOL. Plus, in my opinion, you tend to make far more natural sounding phrases. No matter how well or poorly we sing, there is always that brain to voice connection that we seldom achieve in our brain to fingers connection! Sing along with your solo… You will be amazed at how more natural your playing starts to sound if you are emulating a wind instrument!


Edited by Diki (01/12/21 07:59 AM)
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#501993 - 01/12/21 08:22 AM Re: Warning about using Garritan libraries live [Re: Crossover]
Crossover Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/17
Posts: 596
Well, luckily I am a brass player, I have played the trombone since age 12, so a breath controller would be ideal in my case. I have thought of buying one before, but is there a current manufacturer who sells them?
Maybe this one, available at Musicstore Cologne:
https://www.musicstore.de/de_DE/EUR/MRTA...-8aAkgFEALw_wcB


Edited by Crossover (01/12/21 08:26 AM)

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#501996 - 01/12/21 09:06 AM Re: Warning about using Garritan libraries live [Re: Crossover]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14194
Loc: NW Florida
There is this, too... http://www.midisolutions.com/prodbth.htm

I still have a couple of the old DX7 breath controllers!

Bit of Googling ought to find you something. I have heard a few of the top score composers have used them, and they are amazing when used with some of the new modeled horns from SWAM etc...

T’bone player myself, too..!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#501998 - 01/12/21 11:57 AM Re: Warning about using Garritan libraries live [Re: Crossover]
Bernie9 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5508
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
I have the DM-48, which has dozens of parameters, connected to my SD40 module, Pa4x, or SX900 or iPad. Coincidently enough, I was also a t-boner for years. Of couse, wind controllers come in different forms, but since I am a harmonica player by ear, as well as notation, I chose this. It is a well engineered precision instrument.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKHvvudb1S0
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pa4X 76 ,SX900, Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station, Bose compact

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