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#501562 - 11/23/20 01:45 PM What a trumpet...
Crossover Offline
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Registered: 11/19/17
Posts: 596

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#501569 - 11/24/20 09:58 AM Re: What a trumpet... [Re: Crossover]
bruno123 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4912
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
Rule #1
If you are playing/demoing an instrument, in this case a trumpet, play as a trumpet player would play.
John C.

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#501572 - 11/24/20 12:09 PM Re: What a trumpet... [Re: Crossover]
Crossover Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/17
Posts: 596
I completely agree to that. So what‘s wrong with that demo? Having played trombone myself, I don‘t think a jazz trumpeter wouldn‘t play the way he demoed it. Maybe when he went up to the very high notes, it was a bit extreme. But the physical modeling (legato, glissando) makes even this quite realistic IMHO.
Just as a side note: the demo was done by the manufacturer, it would be very poor if they didn‘t know how to play a trumpet on keys, which is what the product is designed for, and apparently those who listened to it largely liked it. But maybe you don‘t like this kind of jazz trumpet playing...


Edited by Crossover (11/24/20 12:20 PM)

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#501587 - 11/26/20 09:16 AM Re: What a trumpet... [Re: Crossover]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14194
Loc: NW Florida
Yeah, that’s pretty much a primer on how NOT to play trumpet samples..!

Where to start?!

Well, how about breathing? One of the first giveaways of the inexperienced brass emulator. The louder you play, and the higher you play, the shorter the phrase needs to be before the trumpeter would breathe. Try it for yourself. Sing along with your solos.... you’ll soon begin to hear how you need to break phrases up so that they are realistic. Your emulation will improve massively for this alone!

Then there’s that impossible gliss... ‘nuff said..!

Lastly, I’m not hearing any expression work. That’s the primary difference between a wind player and a keyboard player. Once you strike the note on a piano, that’s it. Your work is finished! On a wind instrument, it’s just the beginning. You can swell it, fade it, anything you like.

If you watch videos from the better orchestral libraries, you’ll see them using faders or breath controllers to control dynamics and timbre. This needs that badly!

Lastly is intonation... yes, you can hear it’s not perfectly in tune, especially as it goes upstairs, but that’s something the real player adjusts on the fly. And intonation will tend to be closer to pure intonation on longer notes and away from the extremes.

But all in all, I’d say that this sample set has potential. But the video shows how something that could be amazing can be so easily brought down by non-idiomatic playing. And the converse is true as well... a sample set you already have may fool some pretty discerning ears if simply PLAYED well!

So don’t think that buying fancy sample sets is the answer. Until your playing and phrasing get pretty close with what you have, spending a chunk of money on stuff like this won’t necessarily lead to much improvement!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#501590 - 11/26/20 09:47 AM Re: What a trumpet... [Re: Crossover]
Crossover Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/17
Posts: 596
I think professional jazz trumpeters can play quite long forte passages without breathing, using diaphragm breathing you learn when playing brass (don‘t know these special technique expressions in English).
This player certainly didn‘t prepare what he wanted to play and didn‘t optimize it for ultimate realism, but the physical modeling still makes it surprisingly realistic on its own in my opinion. Maybe I‘m unconsciously compensating for the shortcomings of his playing and focusing on what the virtual instrument makes of it, because I’m not interested in judging the player, but in the quality of the emulation. and that‘s certainly more than what any hardware synth/keyboard could do. Unfortunately, it requires the full Kontakt software in order to use it.


Edited by Crossover (11/26/20 09:54 AM)

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#501593 - 11/26/20 10:31 AM Re: What a trumpet... [Re: Crossover]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14194
Loc: NW Florida
Cyclic breathing isn’t a terribly common technique in standard playing. Unless going for a specific effect, most brass (I was a trombone major too!) will play and breathe naturally when soloing.

And most composers will naturally write parts that don’t call for it.

It’s impressive when used sparingly, though! I once went to see Wynton Marsalis and his septet, a program almost exclusively traditional New Orleans jazz, with very little fireworks from Wynton. But after the curtain came down at the end of the concert, he stepped back through the curtain by himself and proceeded to blow a three or four minute unaccompanied bebop solo of uninterrupted sixteenths without a breath! Just pure bebop improvisation at breakneck speed without a pause for thought or oxygen!!!

I always felt that was the greatest demonstration of control I ever saw... to have that ability inside you, to have that amazing technique and speed and inventiveness, but to not use it for an entire concert until the encore! That’s self-discipline at its finest! How many of us can even go one song without using our best licks?!

Gods walk amongst us... 🎺
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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