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#49768 - 02/04/02 01:39 AM Re: Editorial by your Moderator
technicsplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 3319
Hi, no-one is asking about the email part. If you understand the undercurrent of the first part you are a better man than me. To me it reads as if some people are not welcome here. This is a very mixed message, first of all everyone is welcome, then all of a sudden only certain people are welcome? Who are the unwelcome ones? Why should they be unwelcome?

I find it peculiar that Bebop should post this mail and then not even clarify any queries about it. I've asked a few times for a lead on plagiarism of replies, surely something where one would expect a neutral moderator to provide a lead. Why no response?

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#49769 - 02/04/02 02:05 AM Re: Editorial by your Moderator
Gunnar Jonny Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 4010
Loc: Norway
Johnnie.c,
first of all I want to thank you for all the kind words that you
write here. My face tend to red, but I don't know why

No sir, I don't write a single word to make everybody agree with
me or any of the meanings I have, it is always my very personal
point of view I'm presenting, and I do indeed speak stright from
my heart.


J.Larry,
it might be that I've misunderstood the message above, but I find
the same contents or meanings regardless of how many times I have
read it. Now it is even repeated by a e-mail from Bebop.
You ask why no one speaks about that part, well, I may have some
thoughts about that too.

Other forums have a own tread, often called "Introduction" or so,
a separate topic where members, new or old, can say hello and fill
in what they want other members to know about themselves.
Here we have a moderator who ask us to mail this info to him, so
the information can be massmailed around.
If you look into the profile for each member, there is space to
fill in the info you want people to see, and just take a look, most
people are 'incognito', and not even a e-mail adress is to see.

Bebop also asking people to 'speak one's mind' out directly to him
by a personal mail, and then he will keep the information secret, post
it here at SZ or e-mail it to everyone if allowed. This way of do the
things are a kind of strange to me, and it seems more like a way to
make a "privat social club", rather than a "new openminded Technics
gang" here at this forum.
It also reminds me of the way the ministers behave in the church or in
a religious congregation, and it make me feel that Bebop uses this
forum more as his personal site, and the "newsletters" as a kind of a
parish magazine.

Why not make a new tread like: "Come on Folks, how do we like this
great Technics forum to be?"
The posts / messages about this matters should not be as any kind
of secret stuff, but a open issue where the forum is the tool where
to speak out about what we have in mind about it.

For some of you this might look like a "war" against Bebop, but it is
not, believe me.
It is not personal, and I think Bebop know that very well too. It is
the way I see this things are being done who get my neck-hair rising,
and the fact that I see a kind of 'condescension' against the other
Technics related places around. I.e. by a kind of 'childish' behavior
using * and x, without any reaction from the moderator, who rather is
encouraging to continue this way as i.e. in this post or newsletter.
Quote: The "other" Technic's forums.... End quote.

Kind regards
GJ
_________________________
Cheers 🥂
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)

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#49770 - 02/04/02 06:44 AM Re: Editorial by your Moderator
BEBOP Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/00
Posts: 3770
Loc: San Jose, California
Hi ALL,
I didn't think it would be necessary to clarify what I wrote and it seems that it isn't for most readers.
1. "Techies" Many people are so caught up in their art they they have no interest in social interaction and are much more confortable in their own peer groups. We hope to cater here to all including social interaction.
2. Dissention. New people that join new groups almost always become uneasy when there is a lot of "dissention" going on. They soon move on as THEIR needs are not being met. They are looking for acceptance, not dissention.
3. Confort level. see 1 and 2 above. Everyone will tend to seek out their own group of peers for their confort level.
4. Plagarism. I have not seen any evidence of ANY plagarism on this forum. I think our members in THIS forum are above that.
I wrote in the newsletter for all to see and I will reitterate it here:
Please feel free to forward any of your comments to me directly by email if you don't want to post them on the forum. I understand that. I promise not to publish them. It will give me a better idea of whether we are on the right track for this forum or not.
Once again I make the point that I am always open to constructive criticism. I am not to old at 70 to learn new tricks or to identify with those of you in another age bracket. We can all learn from each other. This forum has already been a big learning curve for me. It is not my intent to try to control it. I think I have already posted about every thing I had to offer regarding the direction I hope to see this forum take. It is all up to you now. Enjoy the forum and each other.
I guess even that statement needs clarification.
Many people will not post their thoughts, wants, or needs on an open forum due to the possibility of ridicule that creates further dissention. I understand that well. I have encouraged them to post directly to me by email and assured them I will not publish their words and subject them to this. I hope to learn from them and you, that I might do a reasonably good job here as moderator.
I am trying. I am learning. I thank all of you for helping me with my learning curve.
I have put in a lot of time and effort to get this forum up and running AGAIN. Many of you have written and thanked me for my effort. Thank you to all of you.




------------------
BEBOP
Moderator SynthZone TECHNICS FORUM
http://www.synthzone.com/cgi-bin/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number=25
Bill Forrest in SAN JOSE, CALIF. USA
bforrest@ix.netcom.com ICQ # 562519
Homepage http://members.fortunecity.com/bebop1
_________________________
BEBOP

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#49771 - 02/04/02 11:32 AM Re: Editorial by your Moderator
technicsplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 3319
Hi Bebop, thank you for the courtesy of a reply at last. I do not usually go on philosophy, but this requires a serious answer.

Regarding all this business of 'techies' or 'peer groups' I have no view because it all seems rather stating the obvious and self evident. People will post what they want to post, and do what they want to do as far as interaction is concerned. Sure you are free to offer an opinion if you want to, but this sounded like some kind of an edict from on high to many people, at odds with the democratic nature of a public forum.

As for comfort, the most uncomfortable thing about a new forum is the fear of a first post because you might appear foolish because it seems like an old boy's club between the 'favoured few'. This seemed to be type of thing you were actually aiming at ('already comfortable in their technical level' etc etc). This attitude will drive away beginners far more than any 'dissension'.

Also the talk of beginners and 'techies' going elsewhere I found offensive. Why can't beginners ask what they like where they like? I'll answer questions where I like, and when I like, whether I answer on Technote or here is a matter for me. Everyone is free to do what they want, within the conditions of the respective forums. I was not aware that giving accurate answers was a problem here.

As for the 'echoing' of posts, if you haven't seen any evidence you can't have looked hard. I have answered a few questions with private mails. Strangely these answers did not turn up again in the forum. Where I explained my reasons in the mail, no-one disagreed with me. It is extremely disappointing that a clear lead is not given here.

All I ever do is answer questions. Opinions are not my main interest, only occasionally do I divert into this sort of territory, when it seems things are not right. I cannot see why issues cannot be discussed here, in the open, without resorting to soliciting private mails and forming select cliques.

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#49772 - 02/04/02 01:00 PM Re: Editorial by your Moderator
Gunnar Jonny Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 4010
Loc: Norway
Bebop,

It is always good to get things clarified, and maybe I'm one of the
group who is a kind of slow, and need some extra help for understand
certain things in life.

1. "Techies" Many people.......

Hm, to tell you the truth, I thought 'Techie' was a nick name for all
Technics users in general, and that's the way I've been used it, in
a similiar way as I use "Yammies" for Yamaha users for years here.
Out of your post, I got this new explanation, and if you have'nt
brought it up, I think no one would have sorted out such groups as a
special peer group. We did not have this kind of needs few weeks ago
as far as I remeber, why now?

2. Dissention....

Wonder why this word is being used at first, and what there was to
create any such thing?
The situation was created when everybody, including me, was so eager
to "hit" Technote, but when the answer finally came, I tried to build
a bridge, and make both places as a alternative.
This is obviously not any good solution for many of you, who still use
a special way to tell the world who you are talkin about (***/xxx).
There is room for both, and to keep up a kind of enmity is not the best
answer, even if we was treated badly regarding to the way things went
out.
The new people who came, and still coming here, do also see what are
going on, and it's not any good example of us to keep on that way.
Young people might have something to teach us when it comes to this
matters.

3. Confort level....

Yes, if this is going to be a social club for special invited users, or
to fill in a few of the users special needs, I can see that people will
seek theyr own group of peer.
But why is that a subject now, when it have not been any before. Who was
it that brought this up as a issue all a sudden?


If people did not find it comfortable to post at the forum, why on earth
shoud a mail to you be the solution?
Why not advise those it might consern to mail any of the members of the
forum, why are you more fitted that all the others here?
Anyone can promiss not to tell, but maybe a priest is a better solution
if we have something who is too touchy for this forum?
The only statement nessesary should be:
"No question is less important than any other, and no questions are dumb
or stupid."
Not mail me private, this is just who want to 'control' everything on the
forum.
We do all struggle with different instrument problems who needs help to
be solved, even the most skilled users have to find out how to get many
different things to work.

I'm very glad that you're open minded, and I think most of us find a lot
of new knowledge here at this forum, regardless to age.
Mixed age usually makes a great source of inspiration, and I have always
been told that we're never too old to learn new things

Yes, you have done a lot to tell people where to find this forum, but as
far as I can see it, many old hands people who are here would have found
it anyway.
Only a matter of time and a little "lookback" in i.e. some Technote posts
or/and links on several Technics related webpages, etc., etc.

This forum have been here for a long time, the SZone name and url have never
been a secret, and as far as I know, you do the promoting and work of your
own free will. (And yes, no doubt, that is very good of you to do so!)
Looking around here at SynthZone, it seems to me that all the different
forums runs just fine without instructs editorials, and I cannot see that any
of those need a special 'captain' besides of SZones admin to run pretty well,
so I guess it would have been about the same situation here too.

Kind Regards
GJ
_________________________
Cheers 🥂
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)

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