Any piano teachers here that know these apps..

Yousician, simply piano, flow key, Piano Marvel...

They make learning piano fun for kids..
True, its not as good as a real piano teacher..
But it rewards the kids, like todays games do..
They also give some feedback..

If parrents only noted this..
This could just be the saviour for music making..
And they work on any keyboard..

They teach music theory, sightreading,
They turn playing scales into a semi fun rewarding experiience..
They train the ear and hearing, with excersises for play by ear..

You play most songs with a backing,..
No arrangers needed...


My nefews who lost their interest in music making have made a comback in Corona time.
They are actually having fun again, and so making progress..

I will have to check out some of these apps myself. I teach piano lessons from home and online. Most students work through classical method material just fine, but when some others began to lose interest, I introduced "chord playing." It's a different time and and I am open to different tools, methods, and etc.

Hi Torch,
I find chord playing is far more interesting , especially for someone my age ( ancient) haha. Only tried it in the last few months
After not having played piano in 20 plus years.
I started off as an adult via classical method , lost interest after a while. It did teach me to read, though, and I became totally dependent on having to read everything.
Wouldn’t have had a clue how to accompany a singer or play from a lead sheet.
Only learnt about chords so I could do some basic playing on a keyboard , which didn’t really help with knowing what to play on a piano.

Think it’s great that you are trying to incorporate both.

Hi Bachus,
I had downloaded a couple of those apps , but haven’t really gotten round to using them.

I found a great online class, that I’m thoroughly enjoying, and ever so slowly working my way thru it.
They give you feedback too if one requires it.

Mainly Ballad, pop type music, and it’s great she teaches to play from a lead sheet or if one wants it a full piano arrangement, is available too for download.

The apps would probably be very interesting to kids.

Rikki, share the highlights of your piano/chord studies, we may be able to add to, or learn from, what you are doing. It would be a nice topic.

John C.

These apps are useful to a degree however they still require the user to be very self disciplined. What I find is that the biggest problem to any student learning a new instrument, is the lack of self discipline and the inability of the parents to manage their child’s, or even their own time . The failure to put a structure in terms of scheduled practise times to stick to is the single most impacting factor on a students success or failure . It’s a real challenge and sadly no app can substitute this .

Interesting observation, but I find that most youngsters that have been bought up with modern technology, perform better if they use it to learn, and have difficulty concentrating doing it the old way. (Times have changed and what worked in the past has to be modified to suit the future)
If they stay interested then adding some of the old ways will get them to the top, but introduced too soon and interest will wane. (How many potential players have been lost over the years due to them losing interest by their teacher being strict at the outset, rather than letting them enjoy learning to play?)

Bill

I bought one of the books from Rikki's coarse entitle "100 Left Hand Patterns",to try before trying the coarse itself.

I was looking for a method of left hand accompaniment that can be used for different songs. It is a good book for those that are not absolute beginners,as we know chords and right hand melody. I find that for many songs,one can pick out the accompaniment that fits,and sounds pretty good for arpeggiating type left hand. I do think,however,that there is nothing like the real accompaniment written by the composer for a particular song. I should live so long as to learn one at a time,and build up a repertoire.

This is the one i like most ..

Lots of video tutorials
Indepth musical theory, combined with excersises..
Great collection of songs..

And you play everything from sheet music,..
Or by ear in other excersises..


Some things i noticed..
With the Yamaha fsr keys, i make much more mistakes then with the roland jupiter 80
The slightly smaller keys make me touch addescent keys,
Its barely audible but the app detects it..
It happens a lot on the yamaha but almost never on the Roland..


Also i noticed that i play slightly before the beat, espescially when i play chords..

All in all an interesting two days...


It convinced me that when the right app is choosen, its fun, and educational
And it really teaches music...
The apps however all come with a monthly fee..

Yes, discipline is required for anything you wantto archieve in life..

But what these apps do, they try to keep you motivated..
They don’t emphase on the things you do wrong
Instead they reward you for the things you do great..
And when you play a song flawless, they give extra bonusses..

This keeps young people motivated..

For most people the most difficult part of playing piano is coordination between both hands...
Now the program i tried gives hundreds of extra excersises to improve just this..
So people while improving slowly still get the rewards of doing different things..

Another thing i noticed was that they also promote hanons excersises, they turn it into kind of a contest, slowly improving your speed.. making it a challenge.. and this is exactly what the youngsters know from their gaming mentallity..


So yes, dedication is required, but all the motivation build into the app gives people a better chance...

Hi John,
hard to know where to start. My chords , I sort of know already, can’t necessarily play them , but learnt about them from an old Bill Irwin book many years ago.

What I’ve always lacked is the ability to know what to play, so , I used to play from the sheet music , note for note, never had to try and think for myself.

Ok, so now I have the lessons. They are based on specific songs, but basically no reason why what she teaches you for one song, can’t be applied to others. I think most of the songs are taught from lead sheets, but , they also have a version that’s fully notated, Prefer what she teaches off the lead sheet, so one can work out what ideas sound best, and basically come up with one’s own arrangement.

Some of the tunes, if I actually saw them fully notated, I wouldn’t have gone near them. Too hard , basket. ie the Intro she has to Make You Feel My Love .
Beginner 3 level. Seeing all those notes written on the staff, just looks so complicated, but by the time she explains it, no where near as daunting.

Just been a lot of fun.

My keyboards, the bit of playing I did do, (when I wasn’t busy converting styles or learning everything that the keyboard was capable of , haha) I really only ever played held left hand chords, single finger r/h melody. Never really ventured bound that.

Probably bit late to get back to piano, but better late than never. Haha

Hi Bernie,
on Pianote?

wasn’t aware of the book you mentioned.

I know they brought out some books, but I wrongly assumed it was just the same stuff as on the online course, but in written and notation form to save downloading the stuff from the course.

Must take a peek. Sounds interesting.

Interesting...

Hi Bachus,
I had a look at Playground Sessions a few years back . At that stage I don’t think it was an app, it was online lessons. unless they coincidentally happen to have the same name.
The only thing that put me off is, they charged a monthly fee, but they also charged for the sheet music used. Gather things may have changed. I also checked out another site at the time, called, Piano with Willie. I really enjoyed watching his lessons , they were more based on Jazz and Standards.
Never ended up doing either. New Korg arrived on the scene, piano thoughts went out the window.
Wish I’d gone ahead now, especially the piano with Willie course.

One good thing you have with the app, is the real-time feedback ie if you’re improving and doing it right.
Apparently I can send stuff into my teaches and they’ll check to see if right or wrong, but it’s more complicated to get any feedback.

This should just equate to paying for lessons if you went to a music school, teacher for lessons...

Thats the samething Rikki,
They offer. A subscription that offers access to all their lessons..
And 5 songs/month for €10, extra songs cost €2..

There also is a lifelong sub for €200, comes with 40 songs..
It has a huge selection of modern copyrighted songs..
Copyrighted songs is what makes it expensive..

Hi Donny,
it wasn’t so much the monthly fee I was referring to, but that they also charged for the
sheet music.

Certainly don’t resent anyone charging a monthly fee. Haha

The other site I mentioned Piano with Willie the lessons and all the sheet music was included in the fee.

My current course Pianote includes all the sheet music , etc ( not a huge selection at the moment but growing) plus 500 chord charts ? ( lyrics and chords, no written melody notes) for their 500 songs in 5 Days Pak all included in the online course fee.

I been looking into pianote as an option tough..

The package looks great..

But what to expect?

And what makes it better then just using a paper course like alfreds?

There is no interactive app?

So basically its just you and sheets? And a video..

But for the alfred lessons there are also good free video’s online..

Thats the samething Rikki,
They offer. A subscription that offers access to all their lessons..
And 5 songs/month for €10, extra songs cost €2..

There also is a lifelong sub for €200, comes with 40 songs..
It has a huge selection of modern copyrighted songs..
Copyrighted songs is what makes it expensive..

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Hi Bachus,

My lot currently has a special yearly subscription at $127 USD , (normally more expensive, ) but they give a 90 day money back guarantee .

They may have changed structure, not sure, because initially I only signed up for 6 months, just in case I didn’t like it. There again if I didn’t ,I’m guessing I would have gotten my money back.

I had checked out a lot of Lisa’s (Pianote ) utube video clips before I signed up.

$2 to $3 a week is cheap entertainment. Haha

Rikki, this is very basic left hand study, , but it leads to the bigger story.

When you see a --- a C6, Cmaj7, C6/9 Cmaj9, play a C chord.
When you see a --- a Cm6, Cm7, Cm9, Cmmaj7, play a Cm chord.
When you see a --- a C9, C7b9, C7#9, C11, C7b5, C7#5 – and there is more –-- play a C7 chord. In math they call this, reducing it to the lowest denomination. Equals; making it simple to understand.

Key of C Major:
C G7 C --- C-E-G D-F-G-B C-E-G I-V7-C
C F C ---- C-E-G- C-F-A C-E-G

Substitute Dm7 G7 for G7
D-F-A-C (Dm7) D-F-G-B (G7)
Do this until it comes easy. Then do the same for the key of G major, and F major. I am not concerned with the bass line here, just ease of fingering. All the chords are very close to each other.
There are more reasons, but not now. If you can do this easily, we will go to the next step.
John C.

Its definately not expensive
But a considerable chunck of money to pay witouth trying first..

So when you are a member, does everything inside come for free..
I am seriously considering this for myself..

Hi John ,
Thank you for the info.

I’ve been working on chord inversions, certainly makes it sound smoother, than jumping from chord to chord in root position.

Hi Bachus,
sorry just spotted post, you don’t pay any extra for the stuff in the online course in Pianote.
They did bring out a set of books, but I didn’t bother, as far as I can tell , it’s a hard copy of the stuff in the online course. I just download and print as I go.

I’ve also joined up for a month of Willie Miyette’s No Bull Piano course, only in that it’s a bit more Jazz oriented, and I enjoy playing standards. Again helpful for playing from lead sheets , learning how to play simple arrangements and adding to it as one improves. Years back, when I was thinking of taking piano back up , I spent a bit of time checking out his piano with Willie course and found it quite interesting..

Rikki ... just an FYI ... Willie Myette is Rhode Island born and bred ... over the years I've seen him perform with many local rock, blues, R&B, Jazz, you name it groups ... he has been a very talented player from quite a young age ...

“Small world, isn’t it.” I subscribe to Willie’s email newsletters, I enjoy his style. Tony I must be living under a rock I only heard about Willie about a year ago and have never seen him live. As I recall he has a studio somewhere around Post Road in your town.

All this talk about Piano apps.....
Are there any Arranger keyboard playing Apps or not?

Steve ... I think the first time I saw Myette perform was at the 'Chowder Festival' in Newport quite a few years ago ... I think he was 17 - 18 yrs old at the time ... he was with a band called "Kevin Johnson and the Big Johnson Band" ... Last saw him a few years ago with his jazz trio at a Waterfire night in Providence ...
I never noticed his studio but apparently it is on Post Rd, just north of Frenchtown Rd.

It's interesting that Rikki is using his system ...

Tony, Yes I did find it interesting that Rikki on the other side of the globe found Willie's on line instructions.

Thanks for answering..

So far i played around, and came to the conclusion that Piano Marvel is the best app.. most versatile... and really tries to tech you playing piano instead of pushing the right note at the right moment..

Also looks like pianote might even be better for improving left hand and hand independency...

Hi Bachus,
you can find a heap of clips from Pianote on utube. Some pretty interesting little snippets and it’s free.

Basically how I found them in the first place, from a utube clip Donny posted..

You don’t have to sign up for the course, a number of the clips are from the course itself.

Will give you a rough idea of whether or not you enjoy their method of teaching.

Btw,I tried the Playground App (the free section, ) not for me. I can read , so teaching me to play a song from sheet music isn’t a great deal of help.

Also briefly checked out Flowkey. It appears to be similar type of thing.

I would have loved something like these apps, years ago , when I was first learning.

At the moment though, I think I’m getting more out of Pianote, and Jazzedge’s No Bull Piano courses, learning the ability to play from a lead sheet, starting with something really basic , with just say root notes for left hand, and building up to chord shells, next level adding additional notes to right hand, etc.
The same techniques can be used with heaps of songs, and that’s the exciting part.

Instead of doggedly learning every single note on a score sheet, once I get used to the chords and the inversions etc I should be able to put the tips and tricks I’ve learnt in one song to use in others of a similar style.

ie basically in the No Bull piano, Willie has a working on a very simple standard, just single note melody, single root note left hand.
Once we’ve got that right, level 2 progresses to left hand chord shells,
Level 3 added right hand notes etc
Level 4 haven’t even checked out yet.

The song is My Romance, but as he said, what he’s teaching could be used with other songs like Autum Leaves, mentioned others too from a similar genre.

Basically something I’ve never explored before, hence I’m really enjoying the challenge.

Most important Ricky is that you feel you are progressing and are having fun at it..



And you are right about their online youtube videos
Seems my piano skills are atleast at intermediate level..
For whats that worth..

This is the book I bought:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Uqrbu-Z4y8

Voicing chords for an arranger keyboard? Voicing chords for piano? They are different.
One is a matter of speed and work-arounds – the other is a matter of spreading the chord over one or two octaves, giving more depth to the sound.

Piano voicing:
C major chord – C E G
C -- is important because it is the root.
E -- is very important because it decides if it is a major or minor chord.
G -- is the least important.

If the melody note is C my left hand plays 1st and 5th C—G. My right hand plays the C and the lower E.
If the melody note is B, left hand plays 1st and 5th –C—G, and my right hand plays B and the lower E. I do not have to repeat the C note.

This as basic as it gets. The problem comes when we want to add (Expand the sound) to 9th, 13th, a minor9th , or a dimished 9th – ect.

The most important notes are the 3rd and the 7th. (not the root) The 3rd decides major or minor, the 7th decides major or dominate. C major 7th is in the C major scale, C dominate 7th (C7th) does not belong to the key of C – it belongs to the key of F.

Color tones – they add color to the original chord. 6th, 9th, 11th 13th. 9th, #9th, sus7th, b5th – ect.

I like following this method because it helps me understand the why’s and how’s, and I can build on what I have learned.
Hope this helps, John C.

I might disagree with you that the perfect 5th is least important, overall the root and the perfect 5th together define the chord... the middle tone is there for the nuance of the sound, ie, major, minor sus2 sus4.. but in this case C and G are allways there..

For example in the bass notes on a piano you either play full octave C’s or C and G..

So i kind of miss the fact that the perfect 5th is least important?

Thats a nice book..
i can see where this is going..

For intermediate piano players playing from lead sheets this is invalluable..


Alfreds adult piano course also teaches you many of these patterns as part of its songs.. it just doesn’t tell you that you can use them with any song you see fit..

The 5th does nothing to define the "color" of the chord. It reinforces the fundamental but does nothing to denote Maj/Min. It provides added power, and strength to a chord, but with no 3rd, you have no key tonality. The Root, 3rd and 7th define the nature of a chord. The added "color" tones (2nds, 4ths, 6ths) provide more detail, and tension. In practice the Root and 5th work together to reinforce the overall tonality that is defined by the 3rd and 7th.

I wouldn't say that it's a case of more, or less important, as much as it is not as necessary in naming or defining a chord. Take organ stops as an example - the first 3 drawbars are 1-5-1, and used together, they sound like a solid tonic.

I agree, but what you call added power, i think the root and perfect 5th together are the base of the chord... where the color tones are the variation, the emotion of a chord.

Interesting reference to the organ drawbars.. its another proof that the root and the perfect 5th go so well together, they kind of amplify eachother..


Which also shows in numbers, C = 256, G= 384 (256 +128) C=512 hz
Which explains why the harmonics enhance eachother..
Where other notes add much more interesting harmonics that color the sound..

The point is that the 5th cannot DEFINE the chord. It does not denote major or minor. Without the 3rd - it will be a very modal, very open sounding chord with no substance, thereby making it a secondary addition after the 3rd... at least in my mind.

You guys would have been thrown out of my old theory classes

Perfect fifth ..least important, not by a long shot..

The perfect fifth of the chord is your passing and lead in harmonics to the next chord.. Total emptiness.. There are no least important.. every harmonic that is added is important.

I would argue dropping the root would be better

no root = no definition. No identify. Ambiguous. Yes, all tones contribute, but the 3rd is more necessary to define a chord than a 5th. Bass players need/love the 5ths, and they should avoid doubling roots and thirds.

This sounds almost like perfect, almost as perfect as a round circle..


As to not changing the sound character of a chord, i think playing a diminished 5th has quite some impact on the sound of a chord? Strangely the 7th chord in a scale is a diminished chord..


Disagreeing with the fact that the choice of the 5th note doesn’t impact the character of the chord. But whats more important is that the diminished chords using the diminished 5th note is much less pleasing to my ears then playing the root with a perfect 5th. Thats why we don’t play a lot of diminished chords?

There is also the augmented 7th chord, in which there also is no perfect 5th..

Most piano players yet play a full octave in the bass, where playing a 5th and the root would often be more pleasing? Most of the time when i play a piece from a chord progression witouth leadsheet/piano music i stick to just the root note doubled by an octave.

Theory is math, and talking about it is boring ... UNTIL you put it into practice. All these points made have merit, and the slight disagreements that relate to importance are just chocolate vs vanilla. There are NO wrong notes. Every note goes with any other note .... it's all about the spacing, dynamics, and arrangement.
Play on, McDuff.

Hi,
sort of what I’ve been learning also in the Jazzedge beginner type courses, when using shells. 1&7 or 1&3. Playing full left hand chords in the lower registers can sound muddy. Suppose one could add 5th to r/h under melody?

Thank you Bernie.