SYNTH ZONE
Visit The Bar For Casual Discussion
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#498235 - 06/07/20 09:23 AM What if Bach would have owned an arranger?
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143

Nice video about what would have happened if Bach would have played a Rhodes




But what if he owned an arranger?
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

http://keyszone.boards.net

Top
#498245 - 06/07/20 11:54 AM Re: What if Bach would have owned an arranger? [Re: Bachus]
TedS Offline
Member

Registered: 04/28/06
Posts: 807
Loc: North Texas, USA
He would have done great things, because arrangers are excellent composition tools. Whether covering existing music, or trying out ideas, they are pretty much built around the presumption that a player wants to create a bass and chordal accompaniment to go with the melody.

I perceive arrangers as the latest step in a chain of evolution that goes back to Bach's time:
Pipe organ with pedal division --> home organ --> electronic spinet organ with "easy play" features --> arranger

As most arrangers lack bass pedals, the "Bass Inversion" function is crucial because it gives the player a way to control the bassline. I'm not terribly well-schooled in Baroque music. But it seems to me that you could think of Figured Bass as the original "fake book" notation Interesting question!


Edited by TedS (06/07/20 11:59 AM)

Top
#498246 - 06/07/20 01:10 PM Re: What if Bach would have owned an arranger? [Re: TedS]
Steve A Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 388
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted By TedS


As most arrangers lack bass pedals, the "Bass Inversion" function is crucial because it gives the player a way to control the bassline.


In what ways do you mean "control"...Is there a way to manipulate it or control it? Or is it just set patterns? I assumed it was the latter...

I've NEVER used the INVERSION function on my PA 4X on any song yet...Guess I should mess around a little with it....
_________________________
Steve A http://www.stevealtonian.com
Korg Pa4x 76...TASCAM DP24 & DP24 SD. Studio One 6 Professional with a FADER PORT 16. 1969 Yamaha FG-300 Yamaha Red Label Nippon Gakki. Breedlove American CME 25. Neumann TLM-49

Top
#498247 - 06/07/20 01:43 PM Re: What if Bach would have owned an arranger? [Re: Bachus]
Kabinopus Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/04
Posts: 699
Loc: Russia
As I understand, Bach was not a songwriter. By today’s standards, Bach would sooner be a film score composer. Whereas arranger keyboards are mostly focused on working with popular songs. So I presume Bach wouldn’t use them a lot. Mainly we just need to look at guys like Hanz Zimmer to see how would it look today. And it’s mostly about computers with VSTs.

Top
#498249 - 06/07/20 02:15 PM Re: What if Bach would have owned an arranger? [Re: Bachus]
Bill Lewis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 2442
Loc: Bluffton/Hilton Head SC USA
I think he would really love the Sequencing abilities and the sounds. A super creative mind like that would put an Arranger to great use.
_________________________
Bill in SC --- Roland BK9 (2) Roland BK7M, Roland PK5 Pedals, Roland FP90, Roland CM30 (2), JBL Eon Ones (2) JBL 610 Monitor, Behringer Sub, EV mics, Apple iPad (2) Behringer DJ mixer

Top
#498254 - 06/07/20 04:31 PM Re: What if Bach would have owned an arranger? [Re: Bachus]
TedS Offline
Member

Registered: 04/28/06
Posts: 807
Loc: North Texas, USA
Kabinopus, I understand that arrangers are widely used for doing roughs for film scores. I think at one point Yamaha actually used the tagline "the hardest working keyboard in Hollywood" for its PSR-S900 series. Personally I can't think of a better tool for that job.

Steve for years I also played only simple chords. But I like a lot of singer-songwriter stuff, '70s ballads, etc. A very many of them are written with descending basslines. When I really like a song, I'll buy the full original score (piano/vocal/guitar.) These arrangements are richer, better-sounding (and more difficult!) than the simplified versions you would see in one of those Hal Leonard EZ-play fake books. They are loaded with chords like C/E, C/G, etc., and I've learned that the progressions "just don't sound like the radio" unless you activate the bass inversion and play the proper inversions to make the bass go where it's supposed to. It makes a huge difference!

At first I was frustrated trying to reposition my left hand quickly enough to play specific inversions. I actually bought a set of bass pedals thinking that might be an easier way. But I never worked up the courage to try them. Through experimenting, I found that it's easier to play slash chords on a Roland than a Korg. In their zeal to have a two-finger shortcut for more basic chord types, Korg programmed E below C as Eaug. (Augmented chords are pretty rare in the type of music I like.) Korg also acknowledges G below C as Gsus4. So to get "C/G", you have to reach up and play the 'E' too. On Rolands you can play most slash chords with just the bass and root, which is faster and easier to remember.

To make it easier still, I figured out a way to make bass inversion a MOMENTARY function. You can play most of the song with any inversions that are convenient. But when you reach that one signature slash chord that doesn't sound right unless you play the specified inversion, you step on the pedal and play the chord in the correct inversion. Then you can release the pedal, and continue to play any inversion. The arranger only recognizes inversions while you're holding the pedal down. IMO there should have been an option like this from the factory. But I was able to achieve the same effect by adding MIDI Solutions modules. I know my technique will work with Roland and Korg.

Remember, when you're playing an arranger, you're not so much "playing" as you are conducting an orchestra. I think Bach would be pretty enthusiastic to hear his compositions come to life, and being able to refine them with so little effort!


Edited by TedS (06/07/20 05:42 PM)

Top
#498262 - 06/07/20 05:23 PM Re: What if Bach would have owned an arranger? [Re: Steve A]
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Originally Posted By Steve A

I've NEVER used the INVERSION function on my PA 4X on any song yet...Guess I should mess around a little with it....


Steve ... try it with Dylan's "To Make You Feel My Love" ... I've done it on the Pa900 - it's very effective ...
_________________________
t. cool

Top
#498273 - 06/07/20 06:36 PM Re: What if Bach would have owned an arranger? [Re: Bachus]
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
I always loved that Korg gave us a dedicated button for the bass inversion - invaluable for things like Piano Man, Whiter Shade, Bojangles etc ... anything with a descending bass line like that
_________________________
No longer monitoring this forum. Please visit www.daveboydmusic.com for contact info

Top
#498276 - 06/07/20 08:30 PM Re: What if Bach would have owned an arranger? [Re: Bachus]
TedS Offline
Member

Registered: 04/28/06
Posts: 807
Loc: North Texas, USA
Rolands have a dedicated button too. And you can set a pedal to mimic the function of the button. But for all of these boards, you have to press the button once to turn bass inversion "on", and again to turn it "off."

Korg has a cool feature where you can trigger it with velocity. I didn't grow up playing velocity-sensitive keys, I don't have that "touch", and I don't want to break anything. So I'm reluctant to do it that way. And clever though it is, it doesn't obviate the need to play the extra notes. Hence, Roland.

A MIDI solutions footswitch controller and relay connected in series convert bass inversion to the momentary function that it should have had as an option from the factory. Slash chords are a PITA, but they sound good. If there's an easier way to play them, I haven't found it!

Top
#498277 - 06/07/20 08:33 PM Re: What if Bach would have owned an arranger? [Re: Uncle Dave]
Steve A Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 388
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted By Uncle Dave
I always loved that Korg gave us a dedicated button for the bass inversion - invaluable for things like Piano Man, Whiter Shade, Bojangles etc ... anything with a descending bass line like that

Nice tip guys
_________________________
Steve A http://www.stevealtonian.com
Korg Pa4x 76...TASCAM DP24 & DP24 SD. Studio One 6 Professional with a FADER PORT 16. 1969 Yamaha FG-300 Yamaha Red Label Nippon Gakki. Breedlove American CME 25. Neumann TLM-49

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Moderator:  Admin, Diki, Kerry 



Help keep Synth Zone Online