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#49239 - 02/21/05 12:54 PM Problem with audio recording via USB
fmlk4u Offline
Member

Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 190
Loc: Eindhoven, The Netherlands
Hello KN7000 co-players,

In several ways I have recorded several songs as wav or mp3, using the Panasonic Audio Recorder tool, that came standard with the keyboard. I have had the keyboard connected to my main desktop PC and lately to a laptop. But in most cases there are some ticks in the recording now and then as if it was recording of an old LP with a scratch. During recording I closed all applications. In case of the laptop I am even not connected to internet. Screensaver is then off. Since I have the problem with two different PC's I wonder is it sounds familiar and if anybody knows what to do about it. Especially with the classic organ sequence recording the ticks are very good to hear, thus disturbing. Thanks for your feedback and hopefully help!!

Regards, Fred
http://fred.kn7000.nl
_________________________
Kind Regards, Fred

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#49240 - 02/21/05 04:02 PM Re: Problem with audio recording via USB
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Fred,

As just a guess, as I am far from an expert.
Are the ticks in sync? Some of the styles I have have a tick (rim shot?) in the background that I find annoying.

Fran in Florida

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#49241 - 02/22/05 04:34 AM Re: Problem with audio recording via USB
Bill Norrie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 2296
Loc: North Yorkshire
Hi Fred,
I experienced a similar problem some time ago, when using the Panasonic Recorder software. Like you, I turned off all other applications, including anti-virus software, but the problem persisted.
I thought that it might be due to the way the program actually records the data to hard disc, causing momentary interruptions in the data capture process. I tried the program on three different PCs, including a laptop and experienced the problem with different severity, on the PCs. I noticed that the onset of the problem always seemed to occur after about one minute of recording, at which time there appeared to be considerable hard disc activity - indicated by the Hard Disc LED.
I eventually overcame the problem on all my PCs, by using an alternative program for recording via USB - Goldwave ( www.goldwave.com ) This is an excellent professional Audio Editor program and you can download and evaluate it free, from their website. There may be alternative audio editors suitable for USB recording - I had a brief look at 'Audacity' but it doesn't seem to have a USB input facility. If any other forum member knows of a suitable program, I'm sure they will inform us.......

------------------
Willum
_________________________
Willum

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is Music.
Aldous Huxley
( especially when the music is played on a KN7000....)

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#49242 - 02/22/05 07:44 AM Re: Problem with audio recording via USB
technicsplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 3319
this is usually caused by some kind of background task if the pc is fast enough, I recorded all the mp3 demos on the old Keynote Publications site with Audo Recorder years ago without any issues. By the way Bill, the freeware Audacity records digitally from the usb just fine and doesn't cost anything.

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#49243 - 02/22/05 09:45 AM Re: Problem with audio recording via USB
Bill Norrie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 2296
Loc: North Yorkshire
Thanks Alec for confirming that Audacity does indeed have the USB input facility. I was looking at the options offered, on my laptop PC, which at the time, was not connected to my KN7000, hence the probable absence of any mention of USB input. I'll give it a try later today........

------------------
Willum
_________________________
Willum

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is Music.
Aldous Huxley
( especially when the music is played on a KN7000....)

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#49244 - 02/22/05 10:41 AM Re: Problem with audio recording via USB
fmlk4u Offline
Member

Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 190
Loc: Eindhoven, The Netherlands
Hello Folks,

Thanks very much for your feedback. I have just downloaded Audacity and will probably experiment in the weekend. Eralier is unfortunately not possible, becasue too much work and appointments for voluntary work until then. So if you found out how to record with Audacity earlier than me, I am very much obliged.

Kind regards, Fred
_________________________
Kind Regards, Fred

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#49245 - 02/22/05 12:41 PM Re: Problem with audio recording via USB
technicsplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 3319
personally I use audition and sound forge but from memory all you have to do is plug the 7k usb in, open audacity, file menu, preferences, choose panasonic usb x2, stereo etc then hit record.

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#49246 - 02/22/05 02:43 PM Re: Problem with audio recording via USB
manorcourt1991 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 235
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
I use Cool Edit (I believe now owned by Adobe and supplied with Photoshop) and it also works fine with the USB input. Audio Recorder works OK but the recorded level is very low. The level of the wave file can be adjusted in other programs but also brings up the noise floor.

Cheers
Len C.

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#49247 - 02/22/05 03:06 PM Re: Problem with audio recording via USB
technicsplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 3319
audition is what adobe now call cool edit, it has the most impressive audio pitch change performance I've found. You need to balance as high as possible in the 7k mixer when audio recording, then the level is high enough not to require large amounts of normalisation, leaving a very quiet background.

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#49248 - 02/22/05 04:25 PM Re: Problem with audio recording via USB
Kenneth Gundersen Offline
Member

Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 97
Loc: Lyngdal in Norway
If you record using the USB the recording is made digitally. Then there should not be more noice if you use a software to raise the altitude.

If the recorded altitude level is to low, you can use programs like Cool Edit Pro to raise the altitude.

Fred, you can try recording using jack to jack wires, from line out onyour KN7000 and to your PC sound card. Recording will now be analog but the ticks will be gone. Cool Edit Pro will work fine for this recording.

Kennneth www.KN7000.net

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#49249 - 02/22/05 05:39 PM Re: Problem with audio recording via USB
Bill Norrie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 2296
Loc: North Yorkshire
Hi Alec, Your memory serves you very well The procedure is exactly as you quoted above and the program works well with the KN7000 linked by USB.

It also has a facility for increasing the volume - post recording, under the 'Effects' menu option. They call it 'Amplify'. A 'Normalise' function is also included within the 'Effects' sub menu, together with quite a few additional functions.
It can also save the recording in MP3 format but requires the 'LAME' encoder to be downloaded or already present on the PC. Recordings can also be saved in 'Ogg Vorbis' format but WMA format seems to be absent.... 'suppose you can't have everything
For a free program, it is certainly quite a versatile Digital Audio Editor

------------------
Willum
_________________________
Willum

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is Music.
Aldous Huxley
( especially when the music is played on a KN7000....)

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#49250 - 02/22/05 05:58 PM Re: Problem with audio recording via USB
technicsplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 3319
Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Norrie:
For a free program, it is certainly quite a versatile Digital Audio Editor


that's why I've been recommending it for a long time!

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#49251 - 02/22/05 06:19 PM Re: Problem with audio recording via USB
technicsplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 3319
Quote:
Originally posted by Kenneth Gundersen:
If you record using the USB the recording is made digitally. Then there should not be more noice if you use a software to raise the altitude.


not so. There is 16 bit quantisation noise; if you record very low and then normalise by 20dB for example, the noise floor will also be raised by 20 dB to the point where it is noticeable. That is why maxing as much as possible in the 7k mixer is worthwhile when recording digitally, because the normalisation required will be far less, only a few dB, and any noise boost un-noticeable. In fact it's possible to clip with edited voices at 127 without normalisation. Noise on analogue recording will be far worse, unless you have an expensive soundcard with excellent screening.

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#49252 - 02/23/05 09:22 AM Re: Problem with audio recording via USB
fmlk4u Offline
Member

Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 190
Loc: Eindhoven, The Netherlands
Hi Folks,

Last evening, no call it night (LOL) I have installed Audacity Freeware on my laptop and after connecting the KN7000 to the laptop and switching on I started Audacity and could set the Panasonic USB driver as input device and record the sequence directly into the tool. My solo parts were set on max (127), but to make a nice mix, you cannot set all parts at max. So some normalisation remains necessary. Neverhteless It is amazing how easy and versatile Audacity is. !

Thanks for all your input. Audacity only had one drawback yesterday: it made me see my bed around 1.30 AM at night (LOL)

Kind Regards,

Fred Mellink
_________________________
Kind Regards, Fred

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#49253 - 02/24/05 02:49 AM Re: Problem with audio recording via USB
technicsplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 3319
maxing the balance means having the loudest parts at 127 and balancing the rest down from there as appropriate, not having every slider at 127 since that is no longer a 'balance'. Technics chose their settings to avoid clipping which is horrible in digital transfer since the dynamic range of the voices is large. The downside is some normalisation is needed, but the idea that you can produce a recording as good as a cd without any of the many technical tweaks that go into the making of a cd is rather naive.

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#49254 - 02/24/05 08:00 AM Re: Problem with audio recording via USB
Audrey Turner Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 1097
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, England
I have been reading the postings on CD recordings and wonder why you need to go down this road as to me it seems a costly and time consuming procedure.

I have a Philips stand-alone CD Recorder/
Player which is linked to my KN7000 keyboard, PR900 Piano, Sony Mini Disk Player/Recorder, Sony Cassette Player/ Recorder. All are connected to a Technics Amplifier and all are accessed individually or together via a dedicated switch. To date, I have had no problems with recording and making my own CDs. In fact my Christmas CD was in great demand so I guess I must be doing something right.

I will say though, I have learned through trial and error that a great deal depends on the make of blank CD you are using. It is false economy to "go cheap" as without mentioning names, in my opinion there are only two manufacturers' CDs I would use and one of them in particular is excellent - the clarity of sound has to be heard to be believed.

Hmm! interesting posting this.

Aud (u.K.)

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#49255 - 02/24/05 08:41 AM Re: Problem with audio recording via USB
technicsplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 3319
costly? a state of the art pc writer for 15 compared to the price of a stand alone writer, and blanks for a few pennies each compared to dedicated audio cds...

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#49256 - 02/25/05 01:18 PM Re: Problem with audio recording via USB
Audrey Turner Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 1097
Loc: Cambridge, Cambs, England
Point taken Alec, but as I am not 'au fait' with PCs for me the stand-alone was a great investment and has given me and others hours of pleasure. Each to his own though eh?

All the best.

Aud (U.K.)

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#49257 - 02/25/05 01:44 PM Re: Problem with audio recording via USB
Walt Meyer Offline
Member

Registered: 10/02/02
Posts: 437
Loc: Silver City, NM USA
Fred,
I went through a long hunt to find out why I ended up with glitches when recording on my laptop. I had all operating system sevices (local) turned off that weren't necessary for recording and still had problems.
The problem ended up being simple. The hard drive was too slow to keep up with the data flow simply because DMA was not enabled for the hard drive controller. Check by going to device manager and looking at "properties" of the ATA/IDE hardware controller to be sure that DMA is enabled. If running in the PIO mode, there is sure to be trouble.
Walt

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#49258 - 02/25/05 03:46 PM Re: Problem with audio recording via USB
Bill Norrie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 2296
Loc: North Yorkshire
I believe that DMA is enabled by default on Win XP installations - provided of course that the hard drives are capable of operating in DMA mode - as most modern drives are....
All my 'XP' PCs have DMA enabled and I have never deliberately set them up in this condition. If I remember correctly, earlier versions of Windows required the user to select DMA operation, if it was required.

------------------
Willum
_________________________
Willum

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is Music.
Aldous Huxley
( especially when the music is played on a KN7000....)

Top
#49259 - 02/25/05 06:00 PM Re: Problem with audio recording via USB
Walt Meyer Offline
Member

Registered: 10/02/02
Posts: 437
Loc: Silver City, NM USA
Right you are, Willum,
It doesn't hurt to check though if you are having trouble. Who knows what can happen in these darn computers - sometimes I swear that they have a mind of their own.
Walt

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#49260 - 02/26/05 01:16 PM Re: Problem with audio recording via USB
fmlk4u Offline
Member

Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 190
Loc: Eindhoven, The Netherlands
Hello All,

It is a pity, but also with the latest Audacity version and no other programs running, the laptop disconnected from internet, etc. .... I still have glitches. So tomottow I will take my keyboard downstairs to connect it to my main PC and see if I can make proper recordings.... huhuu .... wish it worked easily, so I can upload music to http://fred.kn7000.net
_________________________
Kind Regards, Fred

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#49261 - 03/03/05 10:38 AM Re: Problem with audio recording via USB
fmlk4u Offline
Member

Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 190
Loc: Eindhoven, The Netherlands
Had Success!!

When I connect my KN7000 to my desktop PC, which has more memory and faster CPU than the laptop, I can record in Audacity without any glitches. With Audacity you can do enhancements, like auto-gaining to 0dB, fade in/fade-out, mix of signals, etc.
And it's freeware:
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

Regards, Fred
_________________________
Kind Regards, Fred

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