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#48096 - 10/31/03 10:31 PM Re: When to use Composer Memory
AnthonyCian Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/03
Posts: 276
Loc: Arizona, USA
Hi Rikki:
I guess it's how one looks at forward/backward compatibility.

KN6500 and prior model format styles can be played on the KN7000. Thus the KN7000 is forward compatible "from" the KN6500.

KN7000 format styles can not be played back on the KN6500. The KN7000 styles therefore are not backward compatible. "IF" the KN6500 could play the KN7000 styles then the KN7000 would be backward compatible "to" the KN6500.
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Hi Larry:
Yes, it would be nice to have "ALL" models compatible, but unrealistic because when newer models come out the older ones will not have the new technology. So with older models, it will only be HI TECH during it's time period (hey day).
-----------------
All:

The KN2000/3000/5000/6000/6500 does not have the new technology of the KN7000. That's because, it didn't exist when these prior models came out. My point is, since the technology of past models are already known, why not incorporate past model technology on newer models as they progress. Then it would understand a KN5000, KN2000, etc. and save in those model formats when chosen.

I'm just curious as to some figures. How many poeple post/share their songs in KN7000 format style? How many people can actually listen to them? People who "only" have a KN6500 or older models are out of luck. It was said, why save a song in an older model format? Why not! This will let others who don't have the newer model a way to listen to the great music people have been creating and sharing.

I'm just purely guessing here, lets say 20 people post/share their songs in KN7000 format. Lets say 100 people have a KN7000, hey 100 people are able to listen to these (including the 20 who shared). Lets say 75 people have only a KN6500, 60 only have a KN6000, 40 only a KN5000, 15 with KN3000, 10 with KN2000. That means (where's my calculator) 200 people are not able to listen to these.

Looking into the future. When the next KN model comes out, lets say KN8000. People will want to share their KN8000 stuff. It will be slow at first, but eventually all the opala on the KN7000 will start to dwindle and the KN8000 will start to rise. How many who have KN7000's will get the KN8000? How many will not? The KN7000 won't have the KN8000 technology, but the KN8000 should have the KN7000 technology, because it already exists.

What's that word I'm looking for? Oh! Emulate, have the KN8000 emulate the KN7000. Sure it won't sound as good as the KN8000 with it's new technology. It will sound like a KN7000, and loose some the new technology. But, looking at today's techology in the KN7000, WOW what an awesome instrument, look at all what it can do... So it must be good.

Anthony

[This message has been edited by AnthonyCian (edited 10-31-2003).]

[This message has been edited by AnthonyCian (edited 10-31-2003).]

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#48097 - 11/01/03 05:57 AM Re: When to use Composer Memory
lahawk Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 2198
Loc: Lehigh Valley, Pa.
Well that gets back to your original premise on this topic from way back...that saving in composer memory is the way to go, if you are going to share your songs from an older model keyboard that might be played on a newer model keyboard.

Like you said Anthony, the technology is so far advanced now, from say a KN2000, to the present KN7000, that songs saved on that 2000, sound quite awful, if not saved in composer memory. Even then, the sound is probably not going to be as originaly intended.

Rikki...the "forward - backward" term is kinda confusing, maybe we should use "older-newer" instead. The point I was tyring to make is that all these keyboards should be somewhat compatible, regardless of the advances in technology.

It is my belief that by now, Technics has the necessary knowledge on how to create a keyboard that is "forward-backward" ( "older-newer" ) compatible with all Technics keyboards...regardless...there is always MP3'S !..

In fact.. I was thinking of starting an MP3 web page for ALL Technic keyboards, then we can all listen to all makes of keyboards, from all Technic players...but that's another topic for another posting.

SeeYa
Larry Hawk

Larry Hawk
_________________________
Larry

" Always Do Whatever's Next "

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#48098 - 11/01/03 07:08 AM Re: When to use Composer Memory
AnthonyCian Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/03
Posts: 276
Loc: Arizona, USA
Hi there Larry:

I guess as long as the public is willing to go along buying the next model as soon as it comes out, then there's really nothing else that can be said about this. As I said before, "Good Marketing Strategy".

Great to hear that your thinking about starting a MP3 website for Technics users.

Anthony

[This message has been edited by AnthonyCian (edited 11-01-2003).]

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#48099 - 11/01/03 06:25 PM Re: When to use Composer Memory
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 4244
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Larry
Sounds like a good idea. The terms are a tad confusing.

I tend to think an mp3 site would be great. The biggest problem I tend to think , is that mp3's use a lot of memory, therefor you'd need a website with loads of memory space for storage or else they'd need to be removed and replaced on an ongoing basis.

best wishes
Rikki

Quote:
Originally posted by lahawk:


Rikki...the "forward - backward" term is kinda confusing, maybe we should use "older-newer" instead. Larry Hawk[/B]
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki

Korg PA4x, Korg PA3X, PSR S950, Band in a Box 2016
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

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#48100 - 11/03/03 11:42 AM Re: When to use Composer Memory
shcox Offline
Member

Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 296
Loc: Leesburg, FL USA
Hi Anthony,

I never mean to say or imply that the KN1000 or any of the older instruments were not good instruments or sound good even today. I too like many of the older styles because they have a bit simpler sound that does not make some songs sound ďover producedĒ. And yes it would be nice if you could load a newer style or song into an older instrument but it still would not sound like it was meant to sound.

Obviously, if the song is put into midi format all keyboards can play them so in that sense they are compatible in whatever way we seem to be pointing (forward or backward) but even then there can be problems. For example the song Sunday Afternoon on my website was done using a Pan Flute on a PSR-500. Most GM sound systems make this a Flute, which does not have the breathy sound of a Pan Flute. And Iíve heard some sound cards destroy the drums because they donít have as good of a drum kit or the same sounds in their drum kits. Are these minor points? Not to a musician.

On the KN7000 and the PR54 the style Secret Agent actually plays a totally different Into or Ending depending on whether you start or end on a Major or Minor chord. How could this be handled on the KN1000?

Iím speaking here both as a (loosely used term) musician and as a computer programmer. It would be a nightmare trying to decide what needed to be cut to make a style sound even as good as the original styles on the older instrument much less trying to make it sound close to the new style sound. Iím not saying it could not be done but I doubt that many of the owners of the older keyboard would really like the results.

Using the MS Word example again if I create a really great looking HTML document in MS Word 2000 and I wish to save it to MS Word 6.0 format I might get the text but I would not get the HTML document. For a graphic artist this would be disaster and the same is true for a musician who spends a lot of time playing a song with just the right sound only to have it sound different because some of the qualities of the song were lost.

So I stand by my original statements.

Best Regards,
Heather
_________________________
Heather- Leesburg, FL PR54

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#48101 - 11/03/03 02:59 PM Re: When to use Composer Memory
AnthonyCian Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/03
Posts: 276
Loc: Arizona, USA
Hi Heather:

People who bought and still own a KN3000 probably wish they could hear and be able to use the styles that are being posted in KN7000 format. But they can't, what about them? In order to understand, one has to be in that situation.

I'm just advocating for the people that can not buy a new KN or PR every time a new model comes out. For those folks, well there kinda left in the dust. I was hoping NX was the answer, but not so. Looks like MP3 is, but then it may depend on what stereo system and computer system it will be played on to get that "original sound quality". A $200 unit or $2,000 unit?

As I mentioned before, wait until the KN8000 comes out, this will start all over again.

Anthony

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#48102 - 11/03/03 03:42 PM Re: When to use Composer Memory
Walt Meyer Offline
Member

Registered: 10/02/02
Posts: 437
Loc: Silver City, NM USA
Hi Heather,
You wrote,
Quote:
For example the song Sunday Afternoon on my website was done using a Pan Flute on a PSR-500. Most GM sound systems make this a Flute, which does not have the breathy sound of a Pan Flute.

The beauty of the Kn7000 (and others) is that it is easy to substitute any native voice of the KN7000 or any imported voice for the GM flute voice. And of course with the superb sound editing capabilities of the KN7000, you can tweak the sound to rival the original acoustic pan flute.
The KN7000 provides tools that are beyond imagination. The only hard part is learning how to use them. I've had my KN7000 about a year now and the light is just starting to come on in my brain regarding some of the finer points of the keyboard.
I hope that I live long enough to figure most of it out.
Regards,
Walt

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#48103 - 11/03/03 04:05 PM Re: When to use Composer Memory
shcox Offline
Member

Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 296
Loc: Leesburg, FL USA
Hi Anthony,

Believe me I do understand. I bought the PR with the idea that it was not compatible which was what the sales man had told me so I was ready to face the fact that I would have to start collecting styles all over again never knowing that if that were true there would be no styles to collect.

I was over joyed to find it was compatible with the KN7000 and that my KN6000 disks would load as well.

Also this is likely to be my last instrument so I know I'll be in that position.

NX is really just an extended Midi format like Yamaha has XG. GM and GM2 are standard midi interface instructions and sound sets. NX adds to that but sadly it is proprietary so a midi file made using NX will not sound correctly say on a Yamaha. But it will help with a standard Technics Sound set across instruments that have it.

Take care,
Heather
_________________________
Heather- Leesburg, FL PR54

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#48104 - 11/03/03 07:08 PM Re: When to use Composer Memory
AnthonyCian Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/03
Posts: 276
Loc: Arizona, USA
Hi again Heather,

You have a PR54 and a KN6000, correct?

The PR804 file I sent you worked fine on the PR54 correct?

Say can you send a PR54 song file? You have my email address. Curious to see if it will load in the PR804. Record a sequencer using easy record. Save using all.

Anthony

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#48105 - 11/04/03 06:44 AM Re: When to use Composer Memory
shcox Offline
Member

Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 296
Loc: Leesburg, FL USA
Hi Anthony,

No I traded the KN6000 for the PR54 so I don't have it any more. My other keyboard is a PSR-500 a cheapie but a goodie.

I'll have to record something and send it along since I've actually never recorded that way even on the KN6K.

I tend to mess up more when I know I'm recording it's the shakey knees think. LOL

Heather
_________________________
Heather- Leesburg, FL PR54

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