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#48086 - 10/29/03 06:14 PM Re: When to use Composer Memory
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 4243
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Anthony & shcox,
a few years back , I swapped the KN5 for a pr602 ( I needed a piano, instead of a keyboard) The only features that my PR 602 didn't have was the pads and the custom memory.

Strangely enough, if I try and load only the composer( .cmp)(no sounds or panel memory etc) part of a pr602 style into my kn7 it works, so quite possibly your pr composer styles may also work in the kn7.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AnthonyCian:
[B]Hi shcox:
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki

Korg PA4x, Korg PA3X, PSR S950, Band in a Box 2016
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

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#48087 - 10/29/03 06:59 PM Re: When to use Composer Memory
AnthonyCian Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/03
Posts: 276
Loc: Arizona, USA
Hi Rikki:

Been awhile since we chatted last. Has the dust settled down now with wedding?

Interesting about the PR804 composer maybe compatible. The PR900 composer was the only file that could load in PR804, had to get the other types converted using a PR902.

You know, looking at all this compatibility thing. Wouldn't it be easier for Technics to adopt the Software industry standard of being backward compatible???

That is, when you have MS Word 2002, or Excel 2002, and you want to save it for others that have Word/Excel 97, all you do is pick from the dropdown, find 97, and bingo it's a 97 file. Granted it looses some features from the 2002 version but at least it can be read.

Take that same concept with Technics, and if a person has a KN7000 who would like to have his friend who has a KN5000 hear his music. All the person has to do when saving, is choose from a list of KN's and the KN7000 will save in that model's format. After all, the KN7000 will understand and know what the other KN's has.

Ditto on the PR models.

Oh well, again one of my many "wishful thinkings"...

Anthony

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#48088 - 10/30/03 12:52 PM Re: When to use Composer Memory
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 4243
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Anthony,
yes, the last of the guests left on Monday. It was pretty hectic, as we had 7 staying ( including a 4 month & 3 year old babies, plus the son & new daughter in law's pet cockateil ( parrot). He was the noisiest of the lot (haahaa)

Back to normal at last.

Actually it would be great if you could send me a composer file at some stage, just to see if it would work. It might mean that the piano's & keyboards are more compatible than we thought ( at least when it comes to composer styles)
rikkisbears@hotmail.com
Actually our "easy composer" style parts may be similar too. I'm still trying to work on putting a list together of the different style parts in "easy composer" be pretty bizzare if your piano's was the same as the kn's. I'll be sharing the list when I finish.

I don't think you'll ever see a backward ( meant to say foreward) compatible keyboard or piano.
There wouldn't be an incentive for people to upgrade to the latest model, if their old keyboard played the new styles & songs as perfectly as the new one did. Let's face it, manufactures need people to buy new products, or else there's no incentive for them to keep improving them.

THe only thing that I do find a bit dissapointing is that the piano & keyboards aren't fully compatible. Possibly hasn't occurred to Technics, that some people might prefer 88 notes and still have the sd card facilities and the custom styles etc. I'd much prefer a piano to a keyboard, but I wasn't willing to forgo the sd card facilities on the kn7. Admittedly I could midi up my PR602 to the KN7, but that gets messy & awkward to use, plus my PR602 & kn7 are in different parts of the house..

Little mp3 players might be handy for sharing music. I was considering getting one. ie record a backing track on my kn7 ( all the parts minus the melody) save as mp3. Plug the mp3 player audio out into my PR602 and play piano along with the mp3. Admittedly I could probably do the same thing with a cd player, but not as convenient as those tiny Panasonic mp3 players that you can take anywhere.

Just given me a thought for my Xmas wish list ( haahaa)

best wishes
Rikki




[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 10-31-2003).]
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki

Korg PA4x, Korg PA3X, PSR S950, Band in a Box 2016
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

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#48089 - 10/31/03 06:59 AM Re: When to use Composer Memory
shcox Offline
Member

Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 296
Loc: Leesburg, FL USA
Hey Rikki,

It does seem as if Technics is listening since my PR54 does say in the manual that it will play disks made for the KN7000. According to the salesmen (who really knew very little about the 54) it is the newest in the line so it may be that as they replace the higher end ensemble models they will include the same features.

But backwards compatiblity, why? In the MS WORD example yes if you do not use newer features you can save the file as a lesser version but if you do use them the features are lost. Musically, I rather have a song saved as midi so I still get all the sounds and as for styles they would not sound as good anyway. i.e. While the KN1000 was a good instrument in it's day. How many of us would want our new styles to sound and play like the KN1000 styles.

I think we are going in the right direction.

Heather
_________________________
Heather- Leesburg, FL PR54

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#48090 - 10/31/03 08:48 AM Re: When to use Composer Memory
AnthonyCian Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/03
Posts: 276
Loc: Arizona, USA
HI

Shcox said: "While the KN1000 was a good instrument in it's day. How many of us would want our new styles to sound and play like the KN1000 styles."

Reply: The people who still own the KN1000 that do not have the KN7000.

Just think on how many folks out there that have a KN6000 and older. They are not able to listen to the beautiful music in KN7000 format. The idea is having the current models format be backward compatible. Just think, if you owned a KN7000 and lets say you play at a parish that has a KN6000. If you recorded a beautiful religous song on the KN7000, it could not be played on the KN6000. However, if the KN7000 had a feature that says, save as, and a drop down of models comes up. Choose KN6000, and now it is in KN6000 format, to be played on the KN6000 at the parish.

Also, lets say a KN8000 comes out, and 5 people start sharing their KN8000 songs. Who will be able to listen to them? KN7000 owners? The answer is no, but if it was saved as KN7000, well? As time moves on, more and more will have the KN8000 and gradually the KN7000 will be left in the graveyard of past models (Good Marketing Strategy).

Rikki mentioned: "I don't think you'll ever see a fully backward compatible keyboard or piano. There wouldn't be an incentive for people to upgrade to the latest model, if their old keyboard played the new styles & songs as perfectly as the new one did. Let's face it, manufactures need people to buy new products, or else there's no incentive for them to keep improving them.

Reply:
Missing the point. The converted files from the KN7000 to lets say a KN6000 will not be as perfect as the KN7000, it will be as nearly as perfect as a KN6000. But will give the chance for KN6000 owners to hear KN7000 owners music, which presently is nill... Unless one goes out and buys a KN7000. (Good Marketing Strategy)...

Anthony

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#48091 - 10/31/03 09:54 AM Re: When to use Composer Memory
Walt Meyer Offline
Member

Registered: 10/02/02
Posts: 437
Loc: Silver City, NM USA
Regarding styles from older model keyboards.
Maybe those from the KN1000 are too simple, but I use a lot of my old files from the KN2000 that were tailored for specific songs.
The trick, of course is to use the updated (for Kn7000) styles that were so graciously supplied on the Technics web site.
I use these because of not being able to find native KN7000 styles that were really suitable. Don't get me wrong, the KN7000 styles are very good, but different. Besides, I have a lot of work that I put into my files for the KN2000 that I was able to salvage this way.
The best of two worlds.
Walt

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#48092 - 10/31/03 11:18 AM Re: When to use Composer Memory
AnthonyCian Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/03
Posts: 276
Loc: Arizona, USA
Hi There Walt:

It's great that Technics is taking past KN models composer styles and converting these into the KN7000 format. This indeed will increase the rhythm library for all who have compatible KN7000 units. That's the catch phrase, "For all who have KN7000". Poor souls who don't...

But what about the people that don't have the compatible KN7000 units? Those people will still have to get a KN7000 in order to be able to use what's on the Technics site.

For those people for some reason or in other can not get the current models each time one comes out. So after awhile their KN will not be able to play other peoples music. Thus if the current models were backward compatible, then those who don't have the current model still can play, because it was saved in lets say a KN5000 format.

Now, there will be some loss of features, sounds, depending on what the older has or does not have compared to the newer model. I think the KN7000 is 128 Polysound and the KN5000 is 64. Of course when converted to KN5000 it will no longer be 128 but 64. Things like that, but hey, they can play it. Better than nothing.

Anthony

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#48093 - 10/31/03 01:05 PM Re: When to use Composer Memory
Walt Meyer Offline
Member

Registered: 10/02/02
Posts: 437
Loc: Silver City, NM USA
Anthony,
Technote sells disks that have styles from previous models that have been converted for almost all newer models. For instance, you can get KN2000 styles converted to KN5000, or KN3000 to Kn6000, ETC.
It gets a little costly but styles from past keyboards are available this way.
Walt

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#48094 - 10/31/03 04:38 PM Re: When to use Composer Memory
lahawk Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 2198
Loc: Lehigh Valley, Pa.
I think Anthony's point is that he believes all keyboards should be somewhat compatible with each other. Am I correct in that assumption Anthony ? At least that is what I have deciphered in your posts...and if that's the case, I afree with you.

There are very few products that I know of that are NOT backward compatible.
Heck..I have a VCR from 1987 that can play tapes made in 2003, but that did not stop me from purchacing the latest model

I have a CD Player made in 1990 that will play CD'S made today, but that did not stop me from purchacing the latest model.

My Uncle has a piano player made in 1938 that will play piano rolls made today, but that is not stopping him from purchacing a new piano.

There are probably good reasons why Technics keyboards are not backward compatible...I just don't know what those reasons are.

SeeYa
Larry Hawk
_________________________
Larry

" Always Do Whatever's Next "

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#48095 - 10/31/03 06:35 PM Re: When to use Composer Memory
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 4243
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Larry,
boy, I must have been having a bad morning. Just realized I was using the wrong term. Of course most of the the keyboards are backward compatible ie they play disks from previous models, what most prior generation keyboards & piano's can't do, is play styles from the latest model ie a kn6 can't play a kn7 style.

What I meant to say was, most keyboards aren't foreward compatible ( if there is such a term) haahaa.

Thanks Larry for making me realize my blunder.

best wishes
Rikki


[QUOTE]Originally posted by lahawk:



There are very few products that I know of that are [b]NOT
backward compatible.
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki

Korg PA4x, Korg PA3X, PSR S950, Band in a Box 2016
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

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