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#48066 - 10/20/03 08:49 PM Re: When to use Composer Memory
AnthonyCian Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/03
Posts: 276
Loc: Arizona, USA
Hi Audrey:

You said, "...all I do is make sure I am in the Expand Mode, go to page 3 and save "ALL". I can't say I've noticed much difference in the original to the updated recordings, but then I am definitely not a professional..."

Say you have a KN2000, and you use the stored rhythm pattern "Piano Pop". You set the panel memory to "point" to the stored location where Piano Pop is normally located on the KN2000. You record the song, then you save it, using ALL.

Doing it this way the panel memory saved the information of pointing to the KN2000's stored Piano Pop pattern. You did use the "ALL" when saved which did indeed saved the composer, but not Piano Pop. Just the default prebuilt patterns that resides there. Your using Piano Pop in the KN2000's stored location, no need to save the composer since Piano Pop wasn't copied there.

For example: Lets take that same song, and load it on a KN3000. Guess what, the KN3000 does not have Piano Pop, what will the KN3000 use? The panel memory will be pointing to the best match pattern it can find on one of the stored rhythm patterns on KN3000, and may use 16btballadpop. The song will be played, but not using the KN2000 Piano Pop rhythm.

Lets take that same KN2000 song, and load it on a KN5000. Which does have a Piano Pop, but it is totally different then the one on the KN2000, totally!

You said, "Have I been missing something all these years? I think not."

I guess it just depends on the expectations of the original arranger of the music. One may not notice a difference in rhythm patterns and if there is, so what. But the other person has got to have that same pattern because it was the original, and without it, well it wouldn't be an original.

Anthony

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#48067 - 10/20/03 09:33 PM Re: When to use Composer Memory
AnthonyCian Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/03
Posts: 276
Loc: Arizona, USA
For those who don't have two KN's at the same time to compare, let's simulate it.

I have an idea: I don't have a KN7000 to do this so I'll need someone to do it. Any volunteers? Or any Technics expert who already has something similar describe below and is ready to send, can that be used?

I have a KN2000 prebuilt piano pop pattern converted in KN7000. It will be named 01KN2000.cmp.

I also have a KN5000 prebuilt piano pop pattern converted in KN7000. It will be named 02KN5000.cmp.

I'll send these to the volunteer and he/she can record a short tune, using the exact melody for each. Send to or post to whoever wants it.

Imagine 01KN2000 is the original tune from what else a KN2000. If the person uses the KN2000 panel memory to point to the stored piano pop pattern. When this is played on a KN5000, what you will hear is the KN5000 piano pop stored pattern which is 02KN5000.

Just a thought, hope this doesn't confuse things worse.

Anthony

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#48068 - 10/21/03 02:45 PM Re: When to use Composer Memory
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 4243
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Larry,
even though yamaha may be easier to use in certain functions, I still prefer to use a kn, it offers much more in the way of features when it comes to style creation, sequencing, sound editing etc

They just work differently.

Quote:
Originally posted by lahawk:
I know nothing about Yamaha Keyboards, so my question is:

Do lower end model Yamaha recordings play on upper end Yamaha keyboards?
Yes, but to a certain degree you still end up with volume & sounds not being 100% identical on lower & upper end keyboards and prior models.

Do they have to use the Composer Copy method similar to Technics?
I would say no, as a yamaha sequence is actually recorded as a midifile.

Do they have an Easy Record function as Technics ?
They have their own version.

That's enough about Yamaha, in fact way too much !

Just Curious,
Larry Hawk


best wishes
Rikki

[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 10-21-2003).]
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki

Korg PA4x, Korg PA3X, PSR S950, Band in a Box 2016
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

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#48069 - 10/21/03 03:27 PM Re: When to use Composer Memory
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 4243
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi,
when using a custom style, in your sequence, it can also cause a hassle ie
Joe Bloggs might have the original set of custom styles loaded into his kn7. So he decides to do an original recording of a song he's written using custom style
( no 1 ) 8 beat.

Meanwhile Freddy Nerk has been having a wonderful time sorting all his custom styles and rearranging them to suit himself.

When Joe Bloggs saved his song, he forgot to save the custom style set. He's never touched his, so to him , his custom styles are as common to him as are his inbuilt styles.

Meanwhile Fred Nerk loads his friends brand new original composition that he's so proud of. But instead of hearing the song as an 8 beat (as recorded by Joe) Fred NErk is hearing the song as a March( remember , he's been changing & moving his custom styles around).
Fred doesn't want to hurt Joes feelings about his thought on the new composition, so he justs shuts up , and thinks to himself, it's about time Joe got a new hobby.


Again it's a problem easily fixed by taking Anothony's advice save your styles to composer. In this case you're copying your custom style to one of the 3 composer memories.

Remember Custom styles are NOT compatitable between different model keyboards. Also if you're chopping & changing the locations ( sorting) your custom styles, you need to save the custom style set as part of your song. In the long run if you're sharing your sequences, it would probably be easier to copy the custom style into the composer and save it that way.

best wishes
Rikki

p.s. I'm sort of back. Got a lot of catching up to do. Missed you guys. I'm now one of those dreadful creatures called a
"MOTHER IN LAW"
Son got married on the weekend. Houshold will hopefully be back to normal after the weekend, when the last of the relatives leave. (haahaa)
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki

Korg PA4x, Korg PA3X, PSR S950, Band in a Box 2016
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

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#48070 - 10/21/03 09:30 PM Re: When to use Composer Memory
AnthonyCian Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/03
Posts: 276
Loc: Arizona, USA
Hi Rikki:

Thanks for your feedback on this.

I guess too, it would be hard for the people to understand if they just started using Technics for the first time, or never got the next model. When having one KN, who thinks of those things. UNTIL YOU GET THE SECOND ONE! Then the person will find out the "hard way" that the rhythm patterns don't match and the song doesn't have that particular rhythm it had on the prior model.

If the prior model was kept then there's some hope, but if you have a lot of song files and want to match it, well there's alot of work to be done, but possible. But if the person traded the older model and doesn't have it... Well then I guess it's a hunting we will go a hunting we will go...

I lucked out sort of. I got my first taste on a Technics PR305 at the parish I attend. I liked it, played for the parish, and got the next newwer model that came out which was the PR900. I recorded songs at the parish using the PR305, but when played at home on the PR900, it was different, not the same rhythm pattern. Doing my homework and reading the manual, I experimented with copying to composer, and having the the panel memories point there. BINGO! When played on the PR900, got that old time religion back. Amen...

Just trying to save the great folks here any disappointments when or if they upgrade.

Anthony

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#48071 - 10/22/03 01:56 AM Re: When to use Composer Memory
bruno123 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 3211
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
[QUOTE]Originally posted by AnthonyCian:
[B]Hi Rikki:

Just trying to save the great folks here any disappointments when or if they upgrade.

Yes, there is a lot of work to be done, and more to learn, but------after working my way through six Technics keyboards my arrangements/sequences are better than ever, and my knowledge has grown also. Each keyboard has forced me to learn and grow.

Isn't this what it's all about--learning and creating, and learning.

IMHO John C.

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#48072 - 10/22/03 06:10 AM Re: When to use Composer Memory
lahawk Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 2198
Loc: Lehigh Valley, Pa.
Anthony & Gang,
On the Sequencer to Composer Memory..

On my KN300O It states:
"Data from the SEQUENCER can be copied to a COMPOSER memory. For example, you can use a rythmn pattern on a song disk as the automatic accompaniament for you own performance"

If I understand you correctly, you said that when a song is loaded, it is inserted in composer memory automatically.

So what is the purpose of the Technics manual having a chapter on Sequencer to Composer? A chapter, by the way, that is confusing, at least to me. It gets into measure copy, transposing, track assignment, etc..all in the Sequencer to Composer Copy chapter.

Slightly Confused about Sequencer to Composer Copy,
Larry Hawk


[This message has been edited by lahawk (edited 10-22-2003).]
_________________________
Larry

" Always Do Whatever's Next "

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#48073 - 10/22/03 07:19 AM Re: When to use Composer Memory
AnthonyCian Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/03
Posts: 276
Loc: Arizona, USA
Hi Larry:

You mentioned: On my KN300O It states:
"Data from the SEQUENCER can be copied to a COMPOSER memory. For example, you can use a rythmn pattern on a song disk as the automatic accompaniament for you own performance"

Reply: To my understanding, the data it's talking about is a MIDI file or SMF sequencer. Load a MIDI file, and look at all those tracks playing. It is possible to convert those in Technics format APC style, using the seq to composer copy.

You said: If I understand you correctly, you said that when a song is loaded, it is inserted in composer memory automatically.

Reply: If it's in Technic's format (APC)files and if the file loaded includes the file *.cmp. Then YES...

There are other people here on the forum that are more knowledgable in using the sequencer function. Maybe they can spread more light on the this subject.

Anthony

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#48074 - 10/22/03 03:04 PM Re: When to use Composer Memory
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 4243
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Larry,
there's obviously some confusion as what sequencer to composer function does.
It really has nothing to do with your normal sequences ie when you record a song using your auto accompaniment.

What you have to keep in mind is that the sequencer in our kn7's can also be used for multi track recording ie you can record onto 16 individual tracks ( from scratch)ie record your own bassline , your own drum tracks, your own guitar strums, your own string lines , in short you can record a whole composition WITHOUT using any of the inbuilt styles.
Also you can load General Midi files into our kn's ( songs)created from other sources ie other keyboards ( like the psr's, roland, korg etc or from midifiles created in p.c. sequencers)
These midifiles usually use between 1 to 16 of the sequencer tracks ( the same as my example above on multi track recording)

Where the seq to composer function comes in, is that you can pick ( example only) 4 bars within that mulitrack sequence and create a composer part ( variation) out of those 4 bars. Or just say the midifile had a great intro & ending, you could pick the intro bars & actually create an Intro composer part for a new style.
Example Only.
Just say you wanted to play the song "Memory" ( from Cats) and you'd come across a midifile version of the song. You've created a style( the 4 variations) using "easy composer" that works for the song, but still haven't got an intro/Ending .
Solution is to load the midifile ( Memory)into the kn sequencer. Use the seq to composer function and create an Intro/Ending from that midifile.
Admitedly that's a simplistic explanation, but it can be done.
Doing the 4 composer variations from midifile ( songs) is a bit more difficult, because midifile songs usually have chord changes in them, therefore creating some problems.(Chord changes aren't a problem in Intro's & Endings only in parts you want to use for the 4 variations)

By the way, I'm still hoping to maybe get some sort of a workshop on styles going ( for those who may be interested) I'm no expert on the subject , but, hopefully between us,( me with a tiny bit of technical know how & you guys with musical skills) maybe we can get ourselves some new styles to share.

The last of the wedding guests will be leaving early next week, so then I'll have some of my free time back and I can get back to my keyboard.


best wishes
Rikki


[QUOTE]Originally posted by lahawk:
[B]Anthony & Gang,
On the Sequencer to Composer Memory..
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki

Korg PA4x, Korg PA3X, PSR S950, Band in a Box 2016
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

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#48075 - 10/22/03 04:07 PM Re: When to use Composer Memory
AnthonyCian Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/03
Posts: 276
Loc: Arizona, USA
Thanks Rikki for jumping in and explaining the seq to comp thing. I know the function of the Seq To Comp Copy, I just can't explain it in words to good.

Overview:

Seq to Comp Copy is taking particular tracks of MIDI type files and in those particluar tracks a section of measures, then copying it in the Composer APC , aka Accomp1, Bass, etc.

APC to SMF convert is the opposite. It takes the APC composer parts and converts it to individual tracks in MIDI style.

Note: With Seq To Comp Copy this is perferred to be done in sections, or pieces because of the chord changes. APC TO SMF Convert goes through the convert process from the begining of the song to the end.

Did I put it in words ok...???

Anthony

[This message has been edited by AnthonyCian (edited 10-22-2003).]

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