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#475094 - 08/29/19 10:44 PM Who has the most advanced style engine?
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143

I would rate ketron first, its just incredible how many things you can set in the engine..

I would rate Korg in the middle..

I would rate yamaha on the low end, as in general its pretty straight forward..

So where would we rate Roland ea7 (is their only current model)
And casio?
And the more exotic styles from Böhm and Wersi?
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#475095 - 08/29/19 11:56 PM Re: Who has the most advanced style engine? [Re: Bachus]
Sokratis 1974 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/06/10
Posts: 793
Loc: Hellas, Creta, Iraklion
1) Ketron I Rate it with a 9 (For Audio Style Modeling)

2) Korg I Rate it with a 9 (For many advanced edit function)

3) Yamaha I Rate it with a 4 (very poor editing and very difficult to create a style from scratch)..

For Roland I don't have opinion because I don't have any model..


Edited by Sokratis 1974 (08/29/19 11:58 PM)
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#475096 - 08/30/19 12:23 AM Re: Who has the most advanced style engine? [Re: Bachus]
TedS Offline
Member

Registered: 04/28/06
Posts: 805
Loc: North Texas, USA
I agree: Ketron first, and probably Korg second. Ketron definitely has some thoughtful and imaginative customization options to authentically reproduce specific genres of music! [What I don't like about Ketron is their chord RECOGNITION. It tends to acknowledge sixth chords over the more common minor 7ths, and I'm not about to re-learn fingering for songs I already know how to play!]

Yamaha and Korg have similar parameters, which is evident by how well Yamaha styles convert to Korg format. But the two companies take different approaches. Korg gives you access to everything. While Yamaha does allow different patterns for major and minor chords, this option is hidden, controlled by parameters in the CASM that can only be accessed with 3rd party software.

I would rank Casio fourth. They have a pretty complete range of control options. However, none of their arrangers since the MZ-X2000 have had a "memory" parameter to mute the accompaniment but keep the drums going when you release the keys. (Sync stop kills both.) The factory styles are dull, and except for the newest AiX chip, the sound engine isn't great, which doesn't help.

I'm a huge Roland fan, but for style control I rank them absolutely last. They don't even have a 'retrigger' parameter! Or at least it's undocumented and possibly implicit in the sound sample. Likewise the wrap/range; again I believe this is determined by the selected instrument sample. Frankly, I'm amazed at just how playable and good-sounding Roland styles are, given so few options in the Style Composer. Alteration mode was added in G-70 version 2. (This is similar to Yamaha's Note Transposition Rule, and determines whether a chord is revoiced "close" or parallel.) But at the same time they mysteriously dropped "chord family assign," which allowed a user to assign one of the recorded variations (M, m, 7) to a given type of chord.

Another thing that frustrates me with Roland is that they don't give you an option for "no transpose." Multipads finally arrived with the E-A7. But phrases ALWAYS transpose to match the played chord. You can copy style patterns to the pads, and use them as accompaniment to play over a non-transposing MIDI song. But doing so takes a lot of time and effort; a primitive workaround for a feature the competition's had for a long time.

One thing that jumps out at me after studying many reference manuals: All the brands had 90% of their style format (and related user parameters) in place 20 years ago, with only minor additions since then. There truly is nothing new under the sun!
Good topic!!


Edited by TedS (09/03/19 09:55 AM)

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#475097 - 08/30/19 12:39 AM Re: Who has the most advanced style engine? [Re: Bachus]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Bohm and Wersi are both the best and the worst styles on the market, this is because they are programmed for organ play which full arranger styles are not, (Hence the other styles you mention don’t even reach the bottom rung of the ladder if you’re playing organ) however out of arrangers I would put Korg & Ketron on the same level as they just use different types of technology to achieve a live sound, Yamaha is bottom as they need special voices to sound anything decent and fall apart when you try and simplify them.
Casio are fine for the money, while Roland in the G70 era were the top styles available, their lack of commitment to arrangers these days means they fall short, but on the flip side they are great for organ play.

Bill
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#475100 - 08/30/19 01:30 AM Re: Who has the most advanced style engine? [Re: Sokratis 1974]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By Sokratis 1974
1) Ketron I Rate it with a 9 (For Audio Style Modeling)

2) Korg I Rate it with a 9 (For many advanced edit function)

3) Yamaha I Rate it with a 4 (very poor editing and very difficult to create a style from scratch)..

For Roland I don't have opinion because I don't have any model..


Makes me womder wa edit functions you found on Korg ot available on Ketron..
- the only one i can think off, is not being able to edit GM voices on Ketron..
But thats not a style thing...
- and then there is the 4 differend variations for different chord types in Korg..

I found that there are so many little hidden things and settings on the SD9 pro its even beyound what Korg allows... and thats not just audio tracks... espescially the whole style modseling tab on the sd9 pro... and the launchpads... make ketron stand out.. but also options tos set a single drumset and bass troughout a performance..
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#475103 - 08/30/19 03:43 AM Re: Who has the most advanced style engine? [Re: Bachus]
Sokratis 1974 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/06/10
Posts: 793
Loc: Hellas, Creta, Iraklion
Originally Posted By Bachus
Originally Posted By Sokratis 1974
1) Ketron I Rate it with a 9 (For Audio Style Modeling)

2) Korg I Rate it with a 9 (For many advanced edit function)

3) Yamaha I Rate it with a 4 (very poor editing and very difficult to create a style from scratch)..

For Roland I don't have opinion because I don't have any model..


Makes me womder wa edit functions you found on Korg ot available on Ketron..
- the only one i can think off, is not being able to edit GM voices on Ketron..
But thats not a style thing...
- and then there is the 4 differend variations for different chord types in Korg..

I found that there are so many little hidden things and settings on the SD9 pro its even beyound what Korg allows... and thats not just audio tracks... espescially the whole style modseling tab on the sd9 pro... and the launchpads... make ketron stand out.. but also options tos set a single drumset and bass troughout a performance..


So.. Ketron (Audya and SD9), in my opinion is the winner because includes a good (Midi) Style creator, and a very good and easy Audio Styles Modeling..
Korg with 6 (not 4) different CV (Chord Variations) for Variations and 2 CV with Fills, Break, Intros, Endings, also the very good Guitar Mode, and more fuctions as is Sound Articulation Record, advanced Event Edit, Import and convert style from Midi file, Inport Slices Groove (audio Loops), different Volume with RX Noices, Expression Volume for each Channel and more..
Of course all this can be done onboard on Keyboard...


Edited by Sokratis 1974 (08/30/19 03:50 AM)
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Style Producer
Ketron Event, Ketron Audya 76, Audya 5, SD9, SD1,Yamaha Genos, Korg Pa3x, microarranger, Roland Fantom G6, V-Synth XT, XV-5080, SH201, D-50, Novation KS4, Dave Smith Evolver

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#475105 - 08/30/19 03:57 AM Re: Who has the most advanced style engine? [Re: Bachus]
DAN.2000 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 1134
Loc: FRANCE
Yamaha engine is kind of theoretically perfect
But impossible to create high quality styles without eternal sofware

Korg is also very good and let the user edit everything on the keyboard

Ketron and Roland are more basic, but they sound good too

I try to take the best of all worlds in vArranger smile

By the way, they have all updated their style engine over the years...
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Dan
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#475137 - 08/30/19 03:01 PM Re: Who has the most advanced style engine? [Re: Sokratis 1974]
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Originally Posted By Sokratis 1974


So.. Ketron (Audya and SD9), in my opinion is the winner because includes a good (Midi) Style creator, and a very good and easy Audio Styles Modeling..
Korg with 6 (not 4) different CV (Chord Variations) for Variations and 2 CV with Fills, Break, Intros, Endings, also the very good Guitar Mode, and more fuctions as is Sound Articulation Record, advanced Event Edit, Import and convert style from Midi file, Inport Slices Groove (audio Loops), different Volume with RX Noices, Expression Volume for each Channel and more..
Of course all this can be done onboard on Keyboard...


Hi, have Ketron actually added style editing functions ie event list editing etc similar to the stuff one can do on a Korg? Had an sd1 many years ago , trying to edit was hopeless.

Unfortunately Ketron are not readily available here.
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#475328 - 09/03/19 12:02 AM Re: Who has the most advanced style engine? [Re: TedS]
groovyband.live Offline
Member

Registered: 09/02/19
Posts: 64
Originally Posted By TedS

One thing that jumps out at me after studying many reference manuals: All the brands had 90% of their style format (and related user parameters) in place 20 years ago, with only minor additions since then. There truly is nothing new under the sun!


This is exactly what we have written in an headline on our homepage (see signature).
The truth is that the hardware arranger market has almost no competition (only a few players) and this shows!!

We offer a product (realtime arranger software) that tries to put real innovation in this stagnant market, leveraging modern software development concepts and the revolution of touch devices and the corresponding User Interface (UI) paradigm we are all used to since the inception of smartphones and tablets.

We have developed a state of the art realtime arranger engine with unique features readily exploitable from the touch enabled UI with almost no effort and with immediate seamless feedback with the sequencer playing. Included support for hardware controllers and up to 3 keyboards (or 2 keyboards + pedalboard).

For those interested we have the key highlights on the home page, a link to an internal page with a more in depth discussion, and even the full reference manual available online.

For those willing to try by themselves we offer a FREE fully functional DEMO to download, equipped with 620 high quality styles perfectly playing out of the box. No effort, immediate satisfaction, as you are used to with an hardware arranger.

Our team continuously improves the software at a fast pace, and in less than one year from the first release we have already offered many updates with real useful improvements and new content (see the changelog, reachable from our home page). And more are in the pipeline!!

Groovyband Live! Team


Edited by groovyband.live (09/03/19 12:04 AM)
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Groovyband Live! - Realtime Arranger Software

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#475331 - 09/03/19 04:23 AM Re: Who has the most advanced style engine? [Re: groovyband.live]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By groovyband.live
Originally Posted By TedS

One thing that jumps out at me after studying many reference manuals: All the brands had 90% of their style format (and related user parameters) in place 20 years ago, with only minor additions since then. There truly is nothing new under the sun!


This is exactly what we have written in an headline on our homepage (see signature).
The truth is that the hardware arranger market has almost no competition (only a few players) and this shows!!

We offer a product (realtime arranger software) that tries to put real innovation in this stagnant market, leveraging modern software development concepts and the revolution of touch devices and the corresponding User Interface (UI) paradigm we are all used to since the inception of smartphones and tablets.

We have developed a state of the art realtime arranger engine with unique features readily exploitable from the touch enabled UI with almost no effort and with immediate seamless feedback with the sequencer playing. Included support for hardware controllers and up to 3 keyboards (or 2 keyboards + pedalboard).

For those interested we have the key highlights on the home page, a link to an internal page with a more in depth discussion, and even the full reference manual available online.

For those willing to try by themselves we offer a FREE fully functional DEMO to download, equipped with 620 high quality styles perfectly playing out of the box. No effort, immediate satisfaction, as you are used to with an hardware arranger.

Our team continuously improves the software at a fast pace, and in less than one year from the first release we have already offered many updates with real useful improvements and new content (see the changelog, reachable from our home page). And more are in the pipeline!!

Groovyband Live! Team



I am sorry there mate, but your software still has huge catching up to do compared to V-arranger to be usefull to mostbout of the box arranger players
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Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

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