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#463795 - 12/26/18 05:04 PM Re: My NEW Favorite Xmas Vocal Harmony Song.. [Re: jingleman]
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
jingleman ... That's very interesting, and I find more and more - especially when people think it's necessary for THEM to do their own 'voice overs' - that I'm asking myself "what did they say the name of that company/product/whatever was?" ...

Originally Posted By jingleman

There are certain words sung in this example where her releases are not well defined...making it difficult to understand.


Could you be more specific about this?

Thank you
_________________________
t. cool

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#463796 - 12/26/18 05:28 PM Re: My last posted song.. [Re: Dnj]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15556
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Tony, many years ago I took a course in Harford Community College called voice and articulation. It was a great course and I learned a lot from the instructor who was a local jazz singer. The reason I took the course was to improve my voice-overs that I was doing for local TV and Radio stations in the Baltimore metropolitan area. Most of them were car commercials, but I also did some for other products. When I did my first voice-over, I was not at all happy with the results, even though the car dealership loved it.

After taking the course, you could hear a dramatic difference in the overall quality of the voice-overs and I picked up lots of additional jobs. While the course was mainly aimed at singers, and we had to perform in front of an audience of about 200 ppl for our final grade, when I talked with the instructor she was confident it would help with my voice-overs as well. There's a lot more to being a good singer than just belting out the vocals with soul and feeling.

Take a look at http://www.doctorlizmusic.com/voice/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Diction-for-Singers-1011.pdf . This is the same information used in the course that I took as well.

When Carol and I were in Nashville, there was a local, freebee magazine that I picked up that had an advertisement for teaching singers and announcers diction as well. This particular instructor had also provided instruction to Elvis, Sinatra and many of the top singers for the past 40 years, information that was in her advertisement.

Most of the performers I know on this and other sites have never taken any course of this nature, though I have recommended they do so. The handful that did said they really learned a lot and it really had a major impact on their vocal quality.

All the best,

Gary cool


Edited by travlin'easy (12/26/18 05:31 PM)
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#463797 - 12/26/18 05:50 PM Re: My NEW Favorite Xmas Vocal Harmony Song.. [Re: jingleman]
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Thanks Gary, but I was actually asking jingleman to be more specific about this statement:

Quote:
There are certain words sung in this example where her releases are not well defined...making it difficult to understand.
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t. cool

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#463799 - 12/26/18 06:55 PM Re: My NEW Favorite Xmas Vocal Harmony Song.. [Re: Dnj]
btweengigs Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/09/02
Posts: 2204
Loc: Florida, USA
Jingleman, former radio guys and any others interested in jingles, see "Jingles Nostalgia" in the Bar
Eddie

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#463800 - 12/26/18 07:15 PM Re: My NEW Favorite Xmas Vocal Harmony Song.. [Re: tony mads usa]
bruno123 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4912
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
Many, many years my Dad, also a musician, and I were watching a young black singer sing the song, “Why Was I Born”. He was singing slurs throughout the song. We did not judge it good or bad, it was just different. Over the years this type of singing is being done more and more.

I understand what Gary is saying. The old school gave the lyric prime importance. Ex. “Why do I love you” The word “you” was not only a longer, it was a bit louder. It should be, it’s the person you are singing to.

I saying all of this because the importance on the lyric is not as important today. It would be like slurring the word “I” in the example, leaving the word “You” less than. Listening to lyrics with today’s ears it sounds OK. But if you are coming from where Gary and I are coming from, then IT IS kinda of blurred. Ears do not all listen the same – it depends on what they have been taught. You are telling a story.
John C.

PS, I think Frank Sinatra was popular, not mainly because of his voice, but because the lyric was right up front. My Stepson said, “Hey, when he sings you can hear and understand every word”.

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#463804 - 12/27/18 03:37 AM Re: My NEW Favorite Xmas Vocal Harmony Song.. [Re: tony mads usa]
jingleman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 1292
Loc: The Villages, FL, USA
Originally Posted By tony mads usa
jingleman ... That's very interesting, and I find more and more - especially when people think it's necessary for THEM to do their own 'voice overs' - that I'm asking myself "what did they say the name of that company/product/whatever was?" ...

Originally Posted By jingleman

There are certain words sung in this example where her releases are not well defined...making it difficult to understand.


Could you be more specific about this?

Thank you


Tony:
I'll listen to the example tonight as I'm working today. I'll point out specific words in the lyric that had she released them with better diction...they would have been easier to understand.

glot·tal stop
/ˈɡlädl ˌstäp/Submit
noun
a consonant formed by the audible release of the airstream after complete closure of the glottis. It is widespread in some nonstandard English accents, and in some other languages, such as Arabic, it is a standard consonant.

Don Shelton of Singers Unlimited did a vocal workshop at our studio back in the 90's. We discussed glottal stops as an important vocal technique to improve lyric clarity.

As I mentioned earlier...this is extremely important in jingle singing. I have noticed that pop music singers are less concerned with these techniques.

To my ears...it shows the difference between a trained singer and a untrained singer.

As this is subjective...there are many cases in pop music where diction may not be the goal. ie: Louie..Louie. Some lyric lines are better off subtle.

Thanks,
jingleman


Edited by jingleman (12/27/18 03:48 AM)

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#463830 - 12/27/18 04:00 PM Re: My NEW Favorite Xmas Vocal Harmony Song.. [Re: jingleman]
jingleman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 1292
Loc: The Villages, FL, USA
Tony: After listening back to the performance, I found 3 examples :
1. “But I’m all grown up now”. If you try to hit the “t” in the word “but”, it doesn’t work.
“Bu-dime all grown up(a) now. The “d” gives it a soft “t” sound.

2. “Still need help” . The “l” in still is lost. Maybe just a lazy transition.

3. “Not for myself”. Better if glottal the “t” in “not”. “Not(a) for myself”

Guys, this is just my observation. In no way is it my intent to downplay Ms. Clarkson’s performance. There are certainly other factors involved. The mix, mics used, vocal compression...etc. I am not trying to play big time producer, but am only commenting because of the clarity issues brought forth by others. In other words...JMHO!

jingleman

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